We moved our outdoor roping arena this spring and this is a picture of one corner, the gates heavier duty 14’ ones.
We welded some gates, we blew holes for screw on hinges in others:
We have some like those that have been in the ground for decades and are still like new.
We will weld caps on the posts later:
Lol, I am more apt to find buried garbage than rocks 
Watching the video that Ghazzu linked, I am missing my grandma’s post hole digger, rather than a clamshell, I guess it would be considered a manual auger? You just had to twist instead of the clamshell action 
I used a clamshell digger once and hated it!
[QUOTE=omare;8735600]
Another reason I would not concrete as I have had to pull posts…after getting stuck up against them with a truck, trailer you name it due to ice snow mud you name it…(and or you have an extra wide load of what ever)[/QUOTE]
Yup I’ve done that twice. At very inconvenient times. Once in a heavy blowing snow storm. I use a chain saw and then replace the post. Could not have pulled it without damaging the truck, the second time was with the tractor so I had no other choice.
[QUOTE=saultgirl;8735832]
I used a clamshell digger once and hated it![/QUOTE]
They can easier and quicker with practice. Having a tamping/digger bar breaks up, softens the dirt and makes things go much quicker.
[QUOTE=gumtree;8736316]
They can easier and quicker with practice. Having a tamping/digger bar breaks up, softens the dirt and makes things go much quicker.[/QUOTE]
Yep. and having a decent set that is halfway sharp. Some of the sets they sell these days are so cheap the metal at the end bends if you hit a rock which I always do. But I’ve been using the same set at home for 25 years and it’s still sharp and I think easy to use.
A tamping bar is a must have, the wedge end is practically necessary for loosening up hard stuff and prying out rocks and whatever else. Plus if you want to move over the base of a post in the hole that thing saves so much back pain as a lever.
I consider three factors in setting gate posts without concrete.
In 20 years, I have no sagging gates. Broken / rusted gates … but not sagging gates
I was planning to use a round post, 7-8" diameter, 8’ long, set 3’ in the ground, would that be okay?
[QUOTE=froglander;8737258]
I was planning to use a round post, 7-8" diameter, 8’ long, set 3’ in the ground, would that be okay?[/QUOTE]
Those are the type I use (cedar, of course).
Not only are my gate posts in concrete but every post on the fence is in concrete. I use oil well pipe 2.5 inch size. This is not going anywhere. The gate posts are 3.75 inch size.
[QUOTE=froglander;8737258]
I was planning to use a round post, 7-8" diameter, 8’ long, set 3’ in the ground, would that be okay?[/QUOTE]
It depends on the length & weight of your gate.
Here’s how I think of posts.
Depth of post is exponential in performance. Using a 8 foot post will leave 5 feet of post above ground. Do you need to attach the hinge pin that high? Most farm gates have the top hinge pin 6-8 inches below the top of the gate. Four feet is adequate to attach most 50 inch tall tube gates.
Same with the diameter of the post. Exponential in performance…
Concrete around the post does several things. Eliminates tamping, the concrete sets against the undisturbed soil. It also increases the effective diameter of the post in the soil. The downside is it seems to accelerate post rotting and looks ugly when the soil settles. I prefer to tamp dirt around the post. One can also repack the dirt if there is some settling.
Seems to me that the current discussion is concrete v. sandy soil.
What about setting a post in crusher run which is well watered and tamped down? That should certainly be more stable than sandy soil, but not as impermeable as concrete.
I’m not sure where else to /get/ a gate than at the local TSC, or maybe another local farm store about 40 min from me (if I can figure out how to transport it, I don’t have a truck).
I was planning to get something like this http://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/product/wire-filled-gate-10-ft (ones at nearby store are dark blue rather than green-yay)
and use either a 6-7" post or a 7-8" post (is there a ton of difference?)
and after this thread was going to see if I could get another load of concrete fines (most economical way to get “crushed rock/gravel” and it’s worked for stuff in the past) and use some of that to tamp down around the posts.
The soil here /is/ very sandy. It sort of compacts if it’s wet, but once it’s dried out is loose again.
I have clay soil that packs well so can’t speak to sandy soils. Perhaps adding cement to your soil will help.
As for 6-7 or 7-8 inch posts. There isn’t much difference in price. The larger hole will be a bit more labor to dig. The larger post will give you more strength to fasten the hinge pins and resist the gate weight. BUT, consider… a sagging gate is one of the saddest things a farm can have. It looks terrible and is a dreadful pain to use. Think about dragging that gate open and close everyday … multiple times. Put your best effort in the beginning. You’ll thank yourself later.
[QUOTE=Bluey;8734251]
If you tamp dirt properly around any post, it should be there just as solid as if you were to use concrete.[/QUOTE]
Agree!
Concrete and wood do not work well together. When a post is set IN concrete, the concrete sleeve (around the post) becomes a well for water to sit in. This can cause expedited rot. Better to set the post ON a footing of concrete-- not IN the concrete.
A deeply dug post that sits below the frost line will not heave and should stay put if it is installed correctly with sharp gravel (that will lock the post in) then well tamped dirt the rest of the way.
… also use a 6x6 post or even an 8x8. A 4x4 is not heavy enough to support a gate.
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