Concrete or no for a gate post?

[froglander]

I have been reading about setting fence posts. Concrete vs not concrete. I can find decent information about “fence” posts, but not sure about gate posts. Planning to build a 40x70 paddock off his shelter with Horseguard bi-polar tape.

In this picture

https://www.pinterest.com/pin/483222235000932169/

The red circles are the gate posts
Yellow lines would be two 10’ gates (that would open into larger turnouts once they are fenced)
Purple lines will be 12’ corral panels attached to shelter and to gate/corner post (red)
Blue circles would be starting posts for the Horseguard tape and be what the gate is latched to.

So question is, do I use concrete for the red posts? I did read that if you do use concrete to pack gravel in the bottom and part-way up first.

Soil is very sandy.

Thanks!

[IronwoodFarm]

I would only concrete in my gate posts if I was 100% sure that is where I wanted them to be. I know that in the first years of setting up our farm, we moved fence lines and gate posts a few times. I would wait. We used wooden posts for our gates and had no need for concrete.

BTW, I have been a HorseGuard user since 2000. Love the product.

[Simkie]

How long are the gates?

We did concrete all of our gate posts, but really because we used a tensioned fence. Not so much because of the gate.

Ironwood’s point about wanting to move stuff later is certainly a good one.

If you’re on the fence (haha!) about using concrete, maybe skip it and put a wheel on the gate to limit how much it’s pulling on the post?

I assume you’re digging your posts, versus pounding?

[Bluey]

If you tamp dirt properly around any post, it should be there just as solid as if you were to use concrete.

We have old cedar corner posts that are over 100 years old, just tamped dirt around them, that still would take a big tractor to pull them out, they are so solid in there.

As for changing your mind, even if you use concrete, you can pull the post out and knock the concrete off it if you later want to change where you put it.

Either way, concrete or solidly tamped dirt, your corners and gate posts, if braced properly, should be fine.

Using a gate wheel on the longer posts also helps keep it all level, if you have level ground for it to set on.

[BeeHoney]

I would advise against using concrete if you can avoid it.

Many posts are not like Bluey’s 100 year old cedar posts. I would say that most wooden posts have a much shorter lifespan, either due to changing plans for farm layout or due to rot/wear. I can tell you from firsthand personal experience that it is MUCH more convenient to remove and dispose of posts that have not been concreted in. Concreted posts require a lot more power to remove, and are very expensive or difficult to dispose of. Unless you own a lot of heavy equipment and have a handy location to bury a bunch of giant concrete lollipops, or unless you really dislike the person who is going to own your farm in 15-30 years, I wouldn’t use concrete.

Caveat–if for some reason you can’t drive a corner post deep enough (or dig a hole deep enough), perhaps due to rocky condition, in that case concrete may be necessary.

[fordtraktor]

I will be the voice of dissent and say yes! Because I hate saggy gates. I concrete mine so they don’t sag. I also don’t like them on the ground so I need the concrete to be able to hold it off the ground. Dirt is not enough in my fine clay soil. It has a silty texture and settles no matter what in time when it is worked, after a big rain. You simply can’t pack it enough even with all the tamping you can muster.

I have no idea about Florida sand. It sounds softish, though, and perhaps a similar candidate?

[clanter]

steel posts concreted for gates is what we have used, still there after 25 years

[ThirdCharm]

We put up a lot of fencing, on our farm and others. Absolutely use concrete on gate posts. Nothing worse than saggy gates.

Jennifer

[saultgirl]

We didn’t use concrete because we weren’t sure if the fenceline/gate would be moved, and because getting that post out if needed is much more of a hassle if it’s in concrete.

Our gate posts are braced by the next post to help prevent sagging.

[Frog_Pond]

[QUOTE=BeeHoney;8734297]
I would advise against using concrete if you can avoid it.

Many posts are not like Bluey’s 100 year old cedar posts. I would say that most wooden posts have a much shorter lifespan, either due to changing plans for farm layout or due to rot/wear. I can tell you from firsthand personal experience that it is MUCH more convenient to remove and dispose of posts that have not been concreted in. Concreted posts require a lot more power to remove, and are very expensive or difficult to dispose of. Unless you own a lot of heavy equipment and have a handy location to bury a bunch of giant concrete lollipops, or unless you really dislike the person who is going to own your farm in 15-30 years, I wouldn’t use concrete.

Caveat–if for some reason you can’t drive a corner post deep enough (or dig a hole deep enough), perhaps due to rocky condition, in that case concrete may be necessary.[/QUOTE]

This is definitely my experience. I’d only use concrete if I also had a 40 hp tractor to yank those suckers back out when the posts rot, split, or, after I’d accidentally run one over with such a big tractor :lol:. I’ve got a few lollipops laying around, looking for a new purpose. I’ve gone to just dirt.

As all things COTH, the answer depends so much on where you live. Try to find out how often people replace fence posts in your area – if they rot fast, that’ll push you towards avoiding concrete. If not, it’s more reasonable.

[froglander]

I am in central Florida where it rains a decent amount in the summers and is hot and humid. The ground here is sometimes referred to as “sugar sand”. It is very easy to dig in and drains really well. We’ve lived here for about 8-1/2 months now and I’ve yet to have “mud”.

For the person who asked, I was planning on 10’ gates.

I have sketched out so many layout options that I feel pretty good about the current plan. The front area is approx 2 acres, long and skinny, about 150x650. His “barn”/shelter is a 20x25’ carport. Layout includes a 70x40 paddock attached to the carport that with the two 10’ gates can open into either of the two 1 acre turnouts.

https://www.pinterest.com/pin/483222235000932122/

(ignore the white lines near the road)

At least some of the fence posts of the fence between us and the cow neighbors appear to maybe just be pounded in? As when I pushed on one to see if I could straighten it, I was able to move it and it just looked like sand.

If I did /not/ use cement, I was planning to get some concrete fines (most economical version of “crushed rock” I’ve been able to find around here and it packs well) to pack around the post.

I /think/ it’s sounding like that isn’t a bad option? Packed gravel and no concrete?

[Pocket_Pony]

[QUOTE=Bluey;8734251]

We have old cedar corner posts that are over 100 years old, just tamped dirt around them, that still would take a big tractor to pull them out, they are so solid in there.[/QUOTE]

Did you put them in yourself, Bluey?:lol:

I say yes for concrete if you have sandy soil. Our soil is sandy and moves easily and I don’t think gate posts would hold up well without concrete.

[saultgirl]

Yes, I always use gravel for fence posts. Gravel also improves drainage (maybe not completely necessary for you if you live in a dry, sandy area) and it’s so much easier if you have to replace the post.

[ElementFarm]

I hate saggy gates!
We concrete gate posts, and all corners+1. Also, anywhere that tends to be wet (we also have sandy soil, but the lower areas can get swampy, and don’t hold posts well in wet seasons, and are prone to erosion if the horses pace the fenceline and kill the grass that holds the whole thing together).

ETA: we use full rounds of creosote-treated posts, so those suckers will outlive us all. No worries about having them split or rot, and being stuck in the ground with concrete, making replacement difficult.

[Bluey]

[QUOTE=Pocket Pony;8734625]
Did you put them in yourself, Bluey?:lol:

I say yes for concrete if you have sandy soil. Our soil is sandy and moves easily and I don’t think gate posts would hold up well without concrete.[/QUOTE]

I tried to pull them when we wanted to change a fence and I can vouch those things are not going anywhere.
We had to drill holes with our auger all around them, then push them around, before we could get them to come up and we have a larger tractor, not a wimpy one.

The past decades we are setting all corners and gate posts out of 8’, 4 1/2" drill stem pipe with 3 sacks of concrete mix.

Even then, the larger, 14’ and 16’ pipe gates can still pull a post over a bit, if we get a very long wet season.

[froglander]

Hmm, wood posts vs metal then? Since I have kind of a blank slate, figure I ask lots of questions in hopes of doing it “right”

[froglander]

Hmm, wood posts vs metal then? Since I have kind of a blank slate, figure I ask lots of questions in hopes of doing it “right”

[omare]

Another reason I would not concrete as I have had to pull posts…after getting stuck up against them with a truck, trailer you name it due to ice snow mud you name it…(and or you have an extra wide load of what ever)

[Ghazzu]

This technique might be useful.

[gumtree]

"I am in central Florida where it rains a decent amount in the summers and is hot and humid. The ground here is sometimes referred to as “sugar sand”. It is very easy to dig in and drains really wel"l

This pretty much says it all. Wood or metal you need to set them in concrete I am familiar with the Florida soil. Especially if you are hanging a well made 10’ gate. Not one of those light weight cheap gates from Tractor Supply.

I use 6X6 pressured treated posts. I have some going on 14 years that are just as good and just as plumb as the day they were installed.

Granted removing cemented post by hand can be a PITA. But if one has a tractor with a bucket they come out pretty easy depending on the size of the set up. I “push” the post back and forth with my bucket to loosen and then strap with a chain and pull out. However the size of the tractor does make a difference. They can be pulled using one of the forks of the rear 3 point hitch also.

As for the “lollipop” this will break up/off pretty easily by whacking it with a sledge hammer. An inexpensive tool that IMO every farm shop should have.

The trick to setting gate posts without having to use several bags of concrete is not to dig the hole any wider then needed. Use post hole/clam shell digger. They should be set around 3’ deep.

But if you should encounter rocks this can make things problematic and a total PITA. Even if you only replace/repair the odd post every farm should have a Tamping bar. They are cheap and have lots of uses. But they are especially useful for getting/working rocks out of a post hole. They come like the one in the link and with a “pointy” end. I have both. The other end is used to tamp the dirt.

http://www.agrisupply.com/product.aspx?p=20129&sid=asf10&eid=Easf10&utm_source=GoogleShopping&utm_medium=CSE&utm_campaign=MerchAdv&zmam=77232640&zmas=1&zmac=1&zmap=20129&utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=NB_PLA_Targeted_GOOG&utm_term=shopping&utm_content=s1fmGKq0X|pcrid|71486709671|pmt||pkw||pdv|c|&&gclid=CjwKEAjw2PK7BRDPz5nDh9GjoGcSJAAybcS3agGxAmAYIlmHC_nCMqaN7hNifuTUCRIZULW0v4JiJxoCIEvw_wcB

Unfortunately getting rocks out requires “excavating” making the width of the hole much wider than needed. This is when concrete is really needed. I don’t care how much tamping one does. Especially working with Florida’s “sugar sand” dirt.

To save on buying multiple bags of concrete and the labor use rocks to fill up some of the “volume”.