Installing some no-climb wire fencing with a sight-board and wooden posts, and just got the quote back which included concreting each post. I’m wondering if that is necessary due to the tension of the wire, or if it’s an avoidable expense? The fence line will be completely flat, and will also include electrobraid to discourage leaning from the horses. If possible I’d like to save the money, but also want to make sure that this project is done correctly. We have room in the budget to cover the concrete, so if it must be done it will be, but I wanted to get everyone’s input first. We’re in the mountains of NC, so clay-based dirt and a lot of rain (which makes me worry that concrete=rot in 5 years).
Some say if you pound posts in, you won’t need concreting them.
I don’t know, we only pound in steel T-posts.
We concrete all posts, wood or metal.
Any more, all our fences have metal posts.
Works better for us, dry rot and termites a real problem here.
Remember, for sideways pulls, it is not only that your posts be just the right depth, but also to control the side pull of wires, that the base at the hole be big enough.
A very deep, narrow hole won’t keep the post from being pulled sideways.
A bigger around hole, just the right depth, will do that, or a deadman assist to the post you will be pulling from.
Did you look at other fencing, other also the fence builder has put in and see how it is holding up?
I would not know about rot or rust where you are, but that would happen with any contact into the ground, concreted or not, I would think?
Could you use heavily treated posts for corners, along with concreting them, like cut to post size highline poles?
If the fence is under tension and you are digging holes for the posts then IMO you absolutely need to concrete the corner/end posts and the brace posts. (So if there is more than one roll of wire, the posts where the wire stops and starts again, which are braced.)
You can probably get away without concreting all of the line posts, especially if you’ve got electric to keep the horses off of them.
I see you’re in NC, what is the ground like? Is it mostly sand, or are you on clay?
I have long stretches of 4-board wood fencing on two exterior sides and most interior fencing, and then two exterior sides fenced with t-posts and tape/wire.
The professional fence builders who put in the 4-board fence in the 1980s only set the corner posts in concrete. And for the stretches my husband built, he’s done the same (only concrete at corners and gates). The biggest problem we’ve had is that thanks to our persistent moisture, everything rots from the ground up. So eventually my posts start rotting in the ground. I don’t know if having them set in concrete would protect them better or if it would make a huge mess where you’d have to dig out the concrete before resetting posts each time you had to do it. But I would think about that for down the road.
My t-posts are just driven into the ground (no concrete) and they seem to do just fine, despite the fact that half of them run along the edge of a swampy area.
When I fenced my front pasture 17 years ago with 4x4 posts, non-climb horse fence with a top rail, every single post was cemented. The fencing still looks perfect, all these years later. The cementing was recommended by the fencing contractor and yes, it does add to the cost, but in my opinion, it is well worth it.
We did ours a bit differently than the above posters. We installed our no climb fence 5 or so years ago and did not concrete any posts. We used a mix of cedar and locust fence posts and used a tractor post hole digger to dig each hole to a depth of 24 inch minimum and 36 inches was the ideal. We then backfilled and tamped with a 3/4 inch processed gravel that allows for quick drainage. It’s my understanding that concrete will make posts rot faster. As for the corner posts as long as you set the posts 36 inches deep and use the proper H bracing I don’t think concrete is necessary. There are several you tube videos made by red brand that are super helpful and have a lot of valuable information in regards to proper stretching, h bracing and proper installation of posts. We followed the guidelines as were required by the NRCS which also has some good info, it states that concrete is an option but not necessary.
https://www.nrcs.usda.gov/Internet/FSE_DOCUMENTS/nrcs144p2_016391.pdf
We did not concrete any of the posts on our non-climb fence. Posts were set in dug holes and back filled 12 years ago. Some posts have come loose, but we will tamp down with stone dust to secure them. The wire keeps them secure. Others have sheared off due to being in the wetlands (even with treated wood posts). If we had concreted them, we would be SOL with replacing them now. As a temporary measure we sunk metal posts right next to them and secured the sheared posts to the metal posts. In hindsight, concreting the corner posts might have made sense, but 12 years before needing to do some maintenance is not so bad. LOVE my non-climb fence. Tree branch feel on it in the last storm. The post sheared off and broke, but the fence is fine. Do the 5 foot if you were wondering. We also bought cheap pine board to put a top board on the posts and hold them in place while the ground settled. That was supposed to be short-term, but many of them are still up.
Fencing is a big, expensive project … when I do it, I want it done right and ideally, ONCE. We always concrete the posts. It helps not only with stability but also, as noted, with termites and rot.
There is a right way and a wrong way to concrete a fence post - ask me how I know! :winkgrin: Crushed gravel needs to fill the bottom of the hole 6" to 8", then place the post, then concrete - this allows for good drainage for those of us that get lots of rain or where the posts are in a boggy area. We skipped the gravel step when we built our round pen ourselves to save a few $s and we also skimped on the posts and used landscape timbers instead of using 4X4s. Both of those decisions turned out to be bad ideas. Though the round pen lasted a good 10 years, we started to have rotted posts and collapse of part of the fence, having to use T-posts to shore it up. :o
The best way, bar none is to have the post pounded. If there is a fence contractor in the area that has the proper equipment it will be money well spent to have the post pounded. I’ve put up miles of fencing. The vast majority oak board.
When building and or replacing/moving small section that are too small a job for a fence contractor to bring equipment. I drill with a 6" auger. I ONLY use 4X6 pressure treated posts. So at 5 1/2 inches they fit very snug. I place the post in the hole which will only go a few inches. I usually have a helper hold it in place, plumb. I use a post level/plumb. I use the bucket on my tractor to press it into the hole. With minimum back fill and tapping needed.
Holes that are drill too wide take a lot of back fill and tapping if you want them to stand the test of time and not look like crap a few years later due to shifting. Caused by environmental conditions and or what is hung on it. Back filling and really good tamping is back breaking work and very time consuming.
I’ve only helped with putting up wire fence. V-mesh safety fence is pretty much the only stuff that “pro” horse farms use. A bit more expensive than “no climb” but well worth the extra dollars.
As others have said. the only need for cement is on corners or other posts that will be subjected to tension. I round all the corners of my oak board fencing. I cement the middle posts because I pull, bend the boards into that post. So it is subjected to pulling forces until the boards relax and take shape.
Three is no need to add/use gravel in the holes when using quality pressure treated posts. Old school used to put several inches of gravel at the bottom and set the posts on top for drainage. Kept the untreated posts bottoms from rotting up the posts.
The only other time I used cement was for post that had to be installed in shallow holes due to rocks. Cement can and does shorten the life of posts treated or not. It traps water around the collar and water seeps in and or sucked into the post between the posts and the cement.
This is a picture of a 15 year old fence line of pounded post. Still runs straight and true.
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These are 15 year old 4x6 pressure treated posts that were pulled and reused. I live in a pretty wet area. The look almost as good as new.
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Location, , soil, type of posts, makes the difference in setting your post and their life expectancy.
We have pounded posts in heavy clay dirt. Did not use any concrete. They are still solid in the ground, good posts in spite of their many years in service here. Talking overy 30 year old fencing.
Concrete holds water, posts do not dry, which can shorten their life. Cedar, locust, pressure treated posts, each have different lifespans in various types of soil.
Posts I see that break off on fences, break at the ground line, above the dirt covered part, below the fence wire. Concrete won’t prevent that or extend the life of a post. This is the same breaking point on metal and wooden posts. I am still finding metal post bottoms that work up thru the ground with winter freezing action. All those metal post bottoms are about 2ft long, have the stabilizing plate, when I find the t-post top sticking up and dig them out. 50-60 years ago the Farmer never went back to pull them after top broke off. Years have since built up dirt level so they are covered until I find them.
Have to say pounded posts went in FAST and easy. They had a great many posts installed in one day, wire pretty much run and installed the next day. Cleaned up things the third day and gone. There were two good sized fields, 4 paddocks, gates. Husband and I agreed having professionals install fencing was a GREAT idea! None of the posts has ever gotten loose in the ground from icy wire loads, extreme wind on the wire. They carry 8 strands of high tensile wire.
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as others have said, there are lots of variables. However, with the tension required by no-climb, you’ll want at least the strategically-relevant posts to be concreted. When we did our recent expansion projects (red brand no climb with top boards), we used concrete in certain locations:
Every corner plus one post in either direction from the corner.
Both sides of every gate
Any zig or zag in the fenceline
Any areas where we know the ground gets wet or boggy.
Overall, it would have cost another 1K or so to concrete every post. But by doing the ones that really need it for structural stability, we still have a sound and safe perimeter fence while saving some expense.
We had our fencing (electric, coated wire) professionally installed 1 1/2 years ago. Posts are treated and were pounded into the ground. No cement. It hasn’t been up very long, but so far I am quite happy with it.
We used mortar instead of concrete. The contractor recommended that. Going on 20 years now all is standing. He also used mortar for the steps going down from the house to the barn (we’re on a slope). Those are as good as the day he made them. I do not know if mortar is less permeable than concrete.
The barn contractor installed concrete bases for the roof posts and pipe corral connection points. Those are raised a few inches above ground. That keeps the bottom of the posts slightly above ground. There’s some good experience in this thread.
concreted gate and corner post 15 years ago, since then some of the post have rotted. digging up the old concreted posts is a big job. I can’t at this point even pull them out of the ground since they rotted below ground level. I actually have to dig a trench and push the old concreted post into the ditch and put the new one in it place. a lot of work using a shovel and a post hole digger. Bottom line I will never concrete a post again
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Removing concreted posts is awful. Unless you have a need due to soil and weather, don’t do it. My no climb is braced in the corners, 6" rounds pounded in.
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My professionally installed no climb was all pounded posts, no concrete. Can’t even imagine concreting ALL the posts :eek:!
