Conformation critique on prospect:)

[sparkygrace]

@J-Lu

The post I was replying to said that even downhill QHs can do PSG. I disagree that they can do correct PSG movements.

I disagree. I’ve watched the horse in the article below do correct PSG movements in clinics and shows. Conrad Schumacher agrees, too. Even with conformation challenges, a good trainer can produce correct work. Sure, the scores may be lower compared to a six-figure import, but not everyone wants to spend that kind of money,

I know plenty of WBs that don’t go up the levels, stay sound, or have the ideal temperament. Since amateurs are the backbone of dressage in this country, many look for a horse with a good mind and gaits they can actually ride. Among many off-breeds, the right QH can be a good amateur mount.

Ranch Horse Goes From Packing Hunter's Game To FEI Centerline

A few more:

Breed of the Month – Quarter Horses! Part 1

[sascha]

@J-Lu

Any cow can jump 3’3"? I SOOOOOOO disagree with this

You can disagree with it all you like. But you’re disagreeing with a fact which is a silly thing to do. It’s not just a saying my German riding coach said to make us throw our hearts over fences. It’s a (personally witnessed) fact. If they know they can’t get through something they will jump it. Steel railings, brisket bars, you name it. They jump. And usually from a standstill.

If it weren’t this day and age of rabid animal rights, I’d share a video sent to me from my former boss (barn cams) showing a Holstein near the end of her lactation jumping a meter high railing with a 5’ drop because she wanted to get down into the maternity pen and away from the “riffraff” - younger cows behaving like hooligans. She cleared it, from a standstill, and landed beautifully, went to the feed bunk and dug in.

But, back to ponies. Is that downhill Quarterhorse going to put in a spectacular PSG test? No. Is it going to be able to learn all the movements and string them together in a manner that shows the maximum collection and extension for its personal conformation? Yes. Is it going to stay as sound as a horse better built for the work? Likely not. Even if it does stay sound, is it likely to show competitively beyond PSG? Almost certainly not. Would I or should anyone recommend a downhill horse of any breed for a truly competitive prospect? Nope. There are far, far too many purpose-bred horses that have a higher chance of giving their riders success at the higher levels to take the chance that a downhill horse might make it against the odds.

All the pony stuff - also from personal experience/horses I’ve personally known. 1 competitive (but maxed out at) PSG on National circuit and 1 moderately competitive GP horse on National circuit and several others that made it that far on local circuits with their ammy riders.

It can be done.

[LilyandBaron]

We’ve established cows can jump, but let’s stay on topic - can they dressage?

Schweppes Bull

[gnu]

I have two w/ similar conformation to the prospective horse - one by Tiznow. Both are very athletic. It’s worth seeing him in person.

[NSC_Los_Angeles]

+1 to cows being shockingly good at jumping when they are motivated.

Would love to see some video of this horse. Love the breeding and even though he has some faults he also makes an appealing overall picture. All the best, I hope you get him!

[CanteringCarrot]

Agreed.

I had a TB by Cee’s Tizzy and he was put together so well, and athletic. The Rideability wasn’t bad either. He was more of a “compact” model, but I prefer that. He found lower level eventing to be a breeze (I sold him, and new owner just never really competed him due to life reasons - not him).

He had nice movement, I’m not sure about his PSG potential because he’s about 20 or so now and neither I (at the time) nor his current owner had the skill or training to bring him to that level. I owned him as a 4-5 year old. Would not hesitate to buy or consider a horse of that lineage. I’m often drawn to them (figure out later that Cee’s Tizzy/Tiznow/related breeding is in the lines).

I think attitude of the horse plays a huge role too. You can have a suitable horse conformation and breeding wise, but if the trainability, heart, or presence just isn’t there, it’s still a struggle no matter how otherwise suitable they may be.

[Willesdon]

I would have him in my stable because he looks like he would be a good generalist, able to turn a hoof to anything and, from his eye and expression, would enjoy doing it with his human. Would I buy specifically for dressage? Probably not from the photo alone as I would need to see his movement and assess his brain. However, as a life long TB fan, I think they can do almost anything one asks of them. In a sleek summer coat with a few dressage muscles on him, I suspect he would look splendid.

[eightpondfarm]

He’s not uphill, but hardly downhill…only maybe about 2 inches at his elbow. .

[GraceLikeRain]

I remember a time when it was a social norm on here not to critique sale horses. Did I miss it somewhere in the 50 posts where the OP indicated they had received permission from the seller to post their horse online for critique?

Overall I think the assessments are both accurate and not harshly worded but I would certainly feel ick if I stumbled upon my horse listed in here by a stranger who may or may not be seriously interested.

Barring a major structural issue, a horse who has a good brain, is enjoyable to test ride, and passes a PPE should be a solid second level prospect. A rider with authentic 3rd level+ goals should either have enough acumen to assess basic structure as it relates to their goals and/or have developed a private network between their trainer/vet/etc that can answer questions.

I see nothing to indicate that this horse couldn’t be a lovely partner for the average rider who is going to enjoy a horse up to second level.

[hoopoe]

looking at this photo again, I am wondering how obese this horse is. The trend in hunters for roly-poly makes me wonder how much of this conformation is padding.

[TKR]

I think he’s a cutie pie! He looks sooooo much like Northern Dancer it’s amazing, so I’m guessing he might be that bloodline (I DID meet ND and many of his babies, owned one). I don’t see any difference in front hoofs, I think the color difference is making you see it. I’ll bet he’s quick and athletic and saddle fitters can certainly work with him. He is balanced overall. Yes, his neck might be a bit thick - but Lusitanos, Lippys, Andalusians have the same issues and seem to do very well! I’ll bet he holds up great - I’d go get him! Do you have his pedigree? I don’t think you’ll get the huge movement but not everyone can ride that anyway!

[SillyHorse]

@hoopoe

looking at this photo again, I am wondering how obese this horse is. The trend in hunters for roly-poly makes me wonder how much of this conformation is padding.

He’s also winter fuzzy, and that could be adding to the chunky look.

[cardinale]

Could the photo also be somewhat distorted, e.g. compressed L-R? Just gives me that feeling and I’ve seen photos sometimes get distorted being transferred around and posted online.

[LilyandBaron]

He’s by Awesome Patriot (Awesome Again son out of a Cee’s Tizzy daughter) and out of a Wagon Limit mare, and Wagon Limit is by Conquistador Cielo. And yes, there’s ND way back. Don’t think this guy raced, maybe just trained? I’ll definitely be meeting him - agree his angle in the pic may be throwing off the balance.

@GraceLikeRain He’s listed on a website very publicly, not a private photo, so didn’t feel like it crossed a line to post the photo for feedback. And I think the feedback isn’t bad - at worst, he’s not everyone’s favorite to reach GP. But I think most of us agree he’s adorable:)

[J-Lu]

@sascha

@J-Lu

Any cow can jump 3’3"? I SOOOOOOO disagree with this

You can disagree with it all you like. But you’re disagreeing with a fact which is a silly thing to do. It’s not just a saying my German riding coach said to make us throw our hearts over fences. It’s a (personally witnessed) fact. If they know they can’t get through something they will jump it. Steel railings, brisket bars, you name it. They jump. And usually from a standstill.

If it weren’t this day and age of rabid animal rights, I’d share a video sent to me from my former boss (barn cams) showing a Holstein near the end of her lactation jumping a meter high railing with a 5’ drop because she wanted to get down into the maternity pen and away from the “riffraff” - younger cows behaving like hooligans. She cleared it, from a standstill, and landed beautifully, went to the feed bunk and dug in.

But, back to ponies. Is that downhill Quarterhorse going to put in a spectacular PSG test? No. Is it going to be able to learn all the movements and string them together in a manner that shows the maximum collection and extension for its personal conformation? Yes. Is it going to stay as sound as a horse better built for the work? Likely not. Even if it does stay sound, is it likely to show competitively beyond PSG? Almost certainly not. Would I or should anyone recommend a downhill horse of any breed for a truly competitive prospect? Nope. There are far, far too many purpose-bred horses that have a higher chance of giving their riders success at the higher levels to take the chance that a downhill horse might make it against the odds.

All the pony stuff - also from personal experience/horses I’ve personally known. 1 competitive (but maxed out at) PSG on National circuit and 1 moderately competitive GP horse on National circuit and several others that made it that far on local circuits with their ammy riders.

It can be done.

Haha! I do disagree. I will ask my cow peeps if their cows jump 3’3". The video didn’t show the bull jumping. They don’t.

Ad yes, a downhill QH isn’t going to produce a correct PSG.

[J-Lu]

So he’s not a downhill QH. He doesn’t have an uphill build, Depends on how he moves.

[sascha]

What video are you talking about? If it’s the one I don’t have permission to post (and wouldn’t anyway in this day and age) it was a cow, well into her lactation (close to calving) and not even a young cow at that. I have no idea what bull video you’re talking about.

I am sorry you are so misinformed about cattle and their athletic ability.

Move some cows into a new barn where 100s of them need to sort out a pecking order. You wait long enough you’ll see some amazing things including jumping.

Next you’ll tell me they can’t rear, move sideways in a bizarre approximation of leg yielding, can’t canter, and can’t back up.

Go hang around a farm and learn some things.

Go hang around some shows and ask some folks the breeds of their horses.

I don’t make a point of making [things] up. Apparently you do!

[MadTrotter]

I like him! There are a TON of baroque type horses that do just fine with this neck type. It’s not tied in super low. You can teach him to sit and that neck will be a nice counter lever.

Comments here are just a testament to how prevalent these swan-necked, stilt-legged super mover WBs have gotten. For flashy movement, we lose something in rideability and probably soundness.

I also do think he looks quite chonk Some conditioning and he will slim out. And if not, I still like him!!!

[Jenerationx]

Cow jump over 1 meter

Yep… some of them can jump a 4 foot fence from a standstill. I’ve seen it.

AND… bulls can jump. These people found out the hard way.

Bulls Jumping into Crowds of People Compilation (Possibly Funny)

Some of the people laughing at this are disgusting.

[Scribbler]

So I didn’t even recognize this horse as a TB. I was thinking draft cross. If he’s a TB he cannot possibly be as thick as this picture makes him look. And if he’s a TB he will have some decent athleticism. I would want to see how he moves. But a thick TB can be a nice horse.