Conformation critique

[pluvinel]

@colorfan

I appreciate the sentiment but I am asking for opinions. I know her conformation is not great,(front legs are not straight either) I am more wondering how being sickle hocked will affect her performance.

So I will offer an alternative point of view. A trainer I highly respect told me that the horse’s mind and work ethic will go a long way towards performance and mitigating conformational flaws. If anyone argues against this, then dressage has become a 1000-lb poodle show and not a test of training. Which is something we are currently debating.

As far as sickle hocks and “dropped” croup, those are features that this trainer I repect valued as they were signs of a conformation that allowed the horse to easily “sit” behind.

I do see and very out-of-shape horse that has no muscle. I don’t see any limits to what this horse can do just from the pictures.

What I recommend is to put the horse in a small enclosed space, preferably with corners, and do a free school. Ask the horse to move on. See if it offers trot or canter. See if it naturally moves into a canter when you ask for more. Ask for a change of direction. See if the horse can sit and do a balanced “roll back” to change direction when it gets into a corner…or see if it falls on the forehand, breaks into a trot and makes a big circle into the new direction.

Seeing the horse in motion, at liberty, will tell you more about what nature has endowed it with than a still picture from a bad angle.

[colorfan]

Yeah, this girl is reactive and at first she would really give me a lot of movement, she is agile and knows exactly where her feet are. She figured out ground poles right away and can do a nice roll back without thinking. She has settled a lot so doesn’t show off her movement as much.

But I will put some pressure on and really watch what she does.

She is the least muscled horse I have worked with.

[pluvinel]

@colorfan

Yeah, this girl is reactive and at first she would really give me a lot of movement, she is agile and knows exactly where her feet are. She figured out ground poles right away and can do a nice roll back without thinking. She has settled a lot so doesn’t show off her movement as much.

But I will put some pressure on and really watch what she does.

She is the least muscled horse I have worked with.

• Reactive is good. A good, hot horse is like driving a sports car. Once you have one of those, you won’t go back.
• Agile is good. That kind of horse can get you out of trouble.
• Knowing where her feet are is good…you want a horse that can keep you safe.
• Doing a roll-back is great!
• Having no muscle says this is the worse you will see. Great for a project horse as you only have to go up and improve on what you currently have.

With that said, keep your observations to yourself…I would use all the negative comments above about sickle hocks, feet, etc to negotiate the price.

[JB]

@MsM

A method to determine if a horse is sickle hocked that I was taught long ago:
Stand the horse with the back of the hock directly under the end of the butt. The ideal was that the cannons would be perfectly vertical. Small variations were to be expected. But if the cannons slope severely forward, the horse is sickle hocked (the front of the leg forms the sickle shape)

it’s a bit more complicated than that, as a horse who is structurally camped out, will have cannons that angle forward when the point of the hock is under the point of the butt. The angle of the pastern really does complete the picture

@pluvinel

As far as sickle hocks and “dropped” croup, those are features that this trainer I repect valued as they were signs of a conformation that allowed the horse to easily “sit” behind.

They are functional flaws and increase the issues that lead to unsoundness down the road. Yes, they do make it so that the horse visually has more “sit”, but it’s a weaker sit, from a structural perspective. The only value is from the human perspective in being able to shortcut the training process. There is zero value to the health of the horse, there are only detriments.

[colorfan]

Here is another picture. This is after a body work session.

[JB]

MUCH better stance! She’s a tiny bit camped out. Vertical cannon bone that aligns just behind the point of her butt.

If she were any bit sickle-hocked, those cannons would be angled forward in this position.

These legs don’t bother me at all

[ThreeWishes]

Do you think her gaskin looks weak? And is that something that can be developed vs a conformational fault like sickle hocks?

[JB]

She does have light gaskins, but muscling there isn’t the only thing that determines strength. Yes, some muscle can be built - if there’s muscle, it can be developed to some degree, and it can atrophy. But also, she’s still 3, so will be putting on muscle everywhere for a few more years. That said, I suspect she’ll always be a bit light here, but that’s not the end of the world

Even if you look at all the upper level, you’ll find some with lighter gaskins

Would I buy this horse for GP level? Probably not. But “successful at dressage” is certainly something she could do, because that’s pretty subjective, and there’s a lot of dressage before FEI levels

[pluvinel]

@colorfan

Here is another picture. This is after a body work session.

IMHO the horse is fine…of course, for the appropriate price. This is a 3 year old. A horse is not fully mature until 8. I had a horse grow 2 inches between 3 and 6. So, things could get better…or get worse if the horse grows too big and becomes a klutz. Horses are a crap shoot. Even if you get 100% in PPE they find ways to injure themselves. Which is why you don’t spend any more money to purchase than the amount of money you can light a match to.

I would look at the horse’s natural abilities as you described above. Athletic ability and “try” will overcome most any conformational flaws…which I haven’t seen.