Conformation flaws you can/cannot live with

[Lord_Helpus]

Specifically a lovely young horse who is an awesome mover, but in the walking away and back portion of the video the horse consistently crossed the left front over in front of the right front. In the "walk around corformation video, it appears that the knee is offset on that leg which would make sense.

From the side, it is not noticeable at all.

I am looking for a horse to put with a pro who has the innate ability to go up through the levels (God willing and the creek don’t rise).

Will judges mark a horse down right from lower levels on the “up centerline, halt and salute” movements? Would the penalty show up in the collective marks or also in the marks for the movements?

How will his way of going affect lateral work? I can see that it would make leg yields and half passes very easy in one direction – but what about the other direction?

And, if the horse should get that far, what problems might the horse have with passage/piaffe and pirouette?

The horse is over 3000 miles away and it has not been backed, and I have gotten over 10 minutes of video. So there is really no reason to fly to see it.

[outerbanks77]

I would be most worried about soundness, based on that description. And I would pass. I tried a mare last year that looked to paddle a bit in the video. Got there and her front legs had a funky curvature to them, and I knew as soon as I saw it in person that she was a no-go, no matter if she was perfect in every other way.

[netg]

I don’t need legs which are in perfect alignment, but I would not buy one who tightrope walked as you describe. As noted, too likely to suffer an injury - NOT always going to, but likely.

My conformation issue I won’t settle for is more size than anything else. Beyond that, it’s items which stack up.

I have a friend whose mare is well build except for a birth defect… her left hind cannon bone wasn’t growing when she was born. There was a surgery to strip the leg near the growth plate to stimulate growth somehow, but it’s still significantly shorter than the right hind. They are schooling FEI levels, but I wouldn’t BUY a horse who had that sort of conformational flaw. The goal all along has been to make sure they don’t do anything to make her uncomfortable and keep progressing as she is able. Over time, she is showing that the higher the level the easier things get because the straightness and strength from dressage help her. So they keep progressing, at about 1/2 the speed of other horses, but progressing all the same.

[Peggy]

I have been told that winging with a front foot is a not good thing when the first impression a horse gives the judge at C is trotting towards him or her. This seems worse. Also the offset knee seems like a prescription for lameness.

[GraceLikeRain]

So almost like a one-sided tight roping? I’d be curious if a neuro exam turned up anything at all out of the ordinary.

[Dbliron]

Judges don’t care about winging, they don’t even notice it. However, soundness issues would be at the forefront for me…as an ex-judge I promise you that the crossing-over is not a problem for your entry, and later on you enter at canter, but an as-yet unbacked horse with a problem like this is one I’d probably steer clear of.

[Scribbler]

[QUOTE=Lord Helpus;8848148]
Specifically a lovely young horse who is an awesome mover, but in the walking away and back portion of the video the horse consistently crossed the left front over in front of the right front. In the "walk around corformation video, it appears that the knee is offset on that leg which would make sense.

From the side, it is not noticeable at all.

I am looking for a horse to put with a pro who has the innate ability to go up through the levels (God willing and the creek don’t rise).

Will judges mark a horse down right from lower levels on the “up centerline, halt and salute” movements? Would the penalty show up in the collective marks or also in the marks for the movements?

How will his way of going affect lateral work? I can see that it would make leg yields and half passes very easy in one direction – but what about the other direction?

And, if the horse should get that far, what problems might the horse have with passage/piaffe and pirouette?

The horse is over 3000 miles away and it has not been backed, and I have gotten over 10 minutes of video. So there is really no reason to fly to see it.[/QUOTE]

I agree with the other posters that, if the horse is really moving in this way, you are potentially looking at the kind of conformation/movement problem that would create long-term problems with soundness or correct movement. That said, are you judging entirely from a video? Sometimes it can be hard to see what’s happening on a video. If the horse is 2,000 miles away, I would say don’t bother going to visit. But if it is just down the street, you might want to see IRL and see if it really moves the way the video suggests.

I’ve known one young horse move that way, and his overall conformation was a bit wacky, in particular his very narrow chest. He didn’t really stay sound through training, not 100 % sure where he ended up.

You don’t want to start with a horse that isn’t moving correctly. It’s not so much, will he lose marks? but rather, can you get him trained, and will he stay sound?

What you describe is very different from a bit of paddling in the front feet. Some breeds tend to paddle, others not so much.

[JLR1]

A conformation flaw that effects the quality of the gaits of the horse is definitely a deal breaker for me. From the description it sounds like paddling or rope walking and the odds for long term soundness are against moment such as that.

[Pocket_Pony]

Mr PoPo’s horse did that. His conformation that caused him to move like that also made his hoof wear very uneven and he was difficult to keep shoes on. In the end he was neurologic and had to be put down. I would not consider a horse like that again.

[Cranberry]

My mare’s front hooves track slightly inward during the stride, although the placement on the ground is correct. It is like the opposite of paddling. She has some fetlock valgus which is probably the cause. She doesn’t interfere and it has not been a problem so far (fingers crossed).

My mare’s flaw doesn’t sound like quite the same thing you are describing. I think any deviation is potentially a problem, but horses with straight legs have soundness issues. I purchased mine because I liked everything else about her and it was relatively mild. Most people don’t even notice but I identified it on the sales video!

[MysticOakRanch]

Paddling or winging is not an issue, and as long as it is not severe (so they start interfering), it seldom causes soundness issues. But tightrope walking IS an issue and can be indicative of neuro issues. Without seeing video and photos, it is hard to tell what is going on. If it is one sided and conformation related, I would be more worried about long term soundness too. Have you asked a vet?

[Beentheredonethat]

What Mystic said.

[Dbliron]

OP, per your request I PM’d you, hopefully I did it right and you can read my response.

[Mango20]

I’ve never had a judge mark down or comment on my paddling horse.

I would be concerned about an offset knee and future soundness, though.

[Velvet]

[QUOTE=Peggy;8848223]
I have been told that winging with a front foot is a not good thing when the first impression a horse gives the judge at C is trotting towards him or her. This seems worse. Also the offset knee seems like a prescription for lameness.[/QUOTE]

The judges don’t care about a mad paddler/winger. It’s not an issue. Not sure who told you they care. Probably someone looking to blame a horse for their poor scores in the ring.

[Velvet]

For soundness, I’d pass on bad knees, sickle hocked, weak pasterns, flat croup, super small hooved, over at the knees and horses with no scope in their natural walk (or pacing walk). I also want a decent stride at the trot and solid, naturally balanced three beat canter. I don’t mind cow hocked, to a degree. I don’t like a straight shoulder. I don’t mind a bit of unevenness in the knee growth plate when they’re very young. That can be fixed or often settles out. And these are my pretty consistent “don’ts” and a few “dos” when shopping for horses.

[atlatl]

I have a mild paddler who has gotten 8s on gaits, but it’s really mild and only really shows up in the trot. I can live with this issue but like the others would pass on the tight-rope walking.

I have to have good feet and straight legs. I won’t buy a horse with any degree of ringbone because, well, it’s not going to get any better with time. Otherwise, if they move correctly that goes a long way for me.

[Velvet]

Well, ringbone isn’t a conformational flaw. If you go down that path, you’d have to add a whole laundry list of things that would strike a horse from most people’s lists.

[beowulf]

For me, it boils down to flaws that affect their gaits. Every other flaw, be it hideous blemish or boil, I’ll happily live with.

Cow hocked and sickle hocked do not bother me so much, neither does a longer back (though I don’t prefer it).

Too long or soft pasterns - pass, every time. I don’t care how nice the horse is.

Crooked knees? Depends on the horse and the deviation - limb asymmetry is normal, typical, and not always a severe flaw. I had one TB with a slightly crooked knee and that leg never bothered him in the 12 years he lived, raced, evented, and competed.

On the topic of knees: Over At The Knees is usually loading/trauma induced and is not typically a flaw - so I will look at a horse who is OAF if everything else is nice.

I will not do calf-kneed.

Straight legged behind with upright pasterns OR soft pasterns. Will not do this combination. I can accept straight legs, but upright pasterns and straight legs, which are seen in quite a few UL jumpers and eventers, I will not do. Towards the later phase of their lives these horses tend to have sinking pasterns and a whole host of limb lameness behind.

I really don’t love straight legs behind - if there is no slope in the femur I will pass without a second glance. Dealt with too many stifle and SI issues with these types.

That’s pretty much it. I’ve never seen or had a perfect horse. None of mine are conformationally perfect, but oddly, their flaws are not where they’re unsound – if they are even unsound at all.