Contact issues

Hi all.

As my horse and I are getting fitter and I’m starting to ask for real work, we’re running into a problem we’ve never truley fixed and I want to fix before it reininstates itself as the norm.

He’s got a really weird mouth. He can be soft and on the contact, not on it at all, or leaning all his weight on it. There’s no in between. He’s super sensitive to any move I make with my hands, getting offended easily and popping out of the connection, but is also happy to freight train around with me hauling on his face trying to have an affect on him.

When he’s above the bit, my main “fix” is usually to push him back into it, blocking him from going fast with my core. This sometimes works but sometimes results in him totally on the forehand running around like a hooligan.

And when his is is the contact and nice, it’s almost impossible to maintain - as much as I’d like to not more my hands ever, he’s not dressaged enough that we can turn or make transitions entirely off of seat, so there has to be some involvement there.

Current bit is a thick, double jointed, sweet iron D ring. We’ve tried loose ring metal and rubber and rubber D, as well as a slow twist D. Dental is up to date and checked every few months.

Is this a bit thing? Me? Him being a prat? All of the above?

When a horse is not yet educated and accepting the contact, he will either come above or behind the bit. That’s what you’re seeing.

Lateral bend, even widening your hand to encourage bend and softening, are your friends. Make sure to NEVER pull down/onto the bars of his mouth, only working the bit in the corners of his mouth. And do flexions from the ground.

For flexions: Stand next to his neck, facing forward, or in front of him facing him - my horses are taught to back away from my body, so that makes them go into reverse and isn’t an option for me. Lightly lift one rein in the direction of the bridle’s cheek piece - as if you are lifting a pencil light and soft. Wait until he starts to move his tongue and chew softly, then slightly bends toward that contact. Release and pat him, telling him he’s wonderful and brilliant. Then do the other direction. It’s not a jiggle/wiggle/pull. It’s simply showing him that he can soften his jaw and treat the bit as a living thing, coming alive in his contact. THIS is the feel of softness you want to have when turning and asking for a bit of lateral give before you ever think of coming “on the bit.” Both positions you describe are normal for a horse who hasn’t yet learned he can be soft and you can have a softly receiving hand to his contact yet.

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I have a similar problem with my mare. She’s good at accepting and being soft, or being a giraffe, or being a what feels like a freight train in my hands. Every once in a while she will get too heavy and even stuck if I become “too still” with my hands and elbows- as in locking and not softening and following. The primary reason is her not truly having an active and pushing hind end consistently (She’s really good at looking like she’s working on the bit, but when I ask for more we go straight to giraffe mode because its not easy to fake-it-til-you-make-it with lateral work or canter work)

I cant be busy with my hands either, so with this mare it is a very fine line with the contact. I have her going in an egg but double jointed snaffle with a copper oval center, but the snaffle pieces are not fat, and not ultra thin. I tried changing bits before too without success. I wouldn’t go changing bits right away until you play with tuning up your aids and your horse’s response to them first.

The only thing that has really worked for me is transitions within the gait, and into and out of in quick succession… 2 or 3 strides walk, keep her together, trot, 2 or 3 strides, keep her together, walk- all without letting her pull me into down transitions with the bit, and really pushing her with my seat and leg, even with the tap of the whip if needed. It sounds like boring basics, but when this mare is going around like a giraffe or like a freight train, I have to stay a step ahead of her, and really focus on almost riding slightly behind her with a driving seat and leg, but not nagging. This is really hard to explain in words!! My instructor has dubbed this the 'sharpen up" exercise, and pushes me to really get her going off my leg like I want her to be a bit hot, and more active and quick with the hind. The result is obviously a more forward, connected horse, and she is steadier in the contact- less giraffe like.
If I play with this exercise at home with my instructors voice in my head, after about a 10 minute warm up, I have a happier, connected mare and we move to canter and lateral work.

How could I adjust that excercise for a very hot and foward horse? One has to be very careful on him, he’s hard to keep truly in front of the leg because he tends to get flat and downhill and hard to pick up. I’d be concerned sending hime more forwards would worsen that.

Hot horses need more leg. Lazy horses need less leg. If he runs off or is too strong then you need more contact and core strength.

Backin up a bit to your post, you mentioned your horse does not go off your seat. I think maybe taking a few steps back to basics, might be a good start. Your horse should first and foremost be responsive to your aids.

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If he’s hard to keep in front of the leg, is he truly forward? Or is he on the forehand, rushing with his front end while trailing with the hind? To me a forward horse is a horse that is in front of the leg and accepting of the contact. I would honestly still focus on transitions and keeping him thinking. The transitions within the gait is just as much about sending a horse forward into your hand (without going faster!), as it is about asking him to come back to you without losing the push from behind, or breaking.

The transitions will get him off his front end, thinking, really moving from behind, and use your core and focus on rhythm if you need to adjust his temp if you feel he’s “too forward or rushing”. If he’s too quick, slow your own rhythm, exhale, stay quiet with your hands, and give him a few strides to settle into what you are asking and then change it again. Keep repeating until he’s focusing on you and consistent. I wouldn’t get stuck in asking something 1 way for too long with a “hot horse”, just like I cant stay stuck with a lazy horse. As in don’t keep doing 20 meter circles endlessly hoping for bend and connection. Instead do 20 m circle to 3 loop serpentine to figure 8, repeat and include transitions within the gait. I constantly do this exercise as my warm up as well as using my diagonals and 1/4 lines for extended trot, collected trot, extended trot work but only after I feel i have a connection established from the previous exercise.
Needless to say, my rides, whether they are 20 minutes or 45 minutes, solo or in my lessons, are never just 20 m circles of W/T/C. We are constantly doing something, changing direction, keeping her mind sharp and focused to keep her body happy.
Hope that helps? Give it a try and see how it goes!

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I agree with the people mentioning the leg!! You will not be able to solve any issues with your horse until he accepts your leg aids. My recommendation would be to ride along the rail, and push him with your inner leg towards the outer rein… Try to be as soft as possible with your inside rein… in fact don’t do anything with it… With your outer rein you need to feel something coming from your inner leg aid… As long as you don’t I personally would simply repeat to give your horse leg aids… You might need to bump a little (don’t know your horse but it might get a little pissy in the beginning because with that aid you encourage him to take weight from behind and some horses don’t like this in the beginning. And don’t pull in the front if you get a reaction… You will see once he is obedient to your leg your connection issues will be solved… Good luck!!!

If he over reacts to leg on then he has to learn to go with leg on.

If he does not over react to legs on. He needs to learn to go with legs off.

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This is not about the horse’s mouth, it’s about your aids. Your contact and your aids are too soft, too loud, too heavy, too light.

Your horse’s inconsistencies are the reflection of your own.

When he’s above the bit, my main “fix” is usually to push him back into it, blocking him from going fast with my core. This sometimes works but sometimes results in him totally on the forehand running around like a hooligan.

If the result is running on the forehand, it means that you are pulling and not pushing correctly forward/upward into contact.

And when his is in the contact and nice, it’s almost impossible to maintain - as much as I’d like to not move my hands ever, he’s not dressaged enough that we can turn or make transitions entirely off of seat, so there has to be some involvement there.

Hands are not meant to « not move ».
They are meant to follow, and offer a safe constant place for the horse to be.

Part of any movement will involved the seat, the legs, the hands and everything else.

You need to get all your aids independant before you can actually work off of one precisely.

Current bit is a thick, double jointed, sweet iron sweet D bit.
Is this a bit thing? Me? Him being a brat? All of the above?

Bit seems fine but it never hurts to try different ones.

To me, it’s a You thing.

Horses aren’t brat. They usually just don’t understand what is being asked out of them. More precision and consistency is needed.

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Horses can be bratty!! Ask me how I know!

But this is excellent advice!

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Actually, they are reacting to our lack of consistency. Every horse is an individual, so we must treat them and ride them in a way that they can always understand.

We as riders tend to not give the horse the time necessary to build the muscle, and balance needed to perform correctly. We tend to ask for “round” before their body is in any condition to go round. We ask them to carry us, when we need to carry ourselves.

Riding is work, when it all comes together it seems so simple, but be assured the rider that makes it look easy is one that you never want to meet in a dark alley. They are tough, physically, so they can be soft in the saddle.

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I agree about the consistency/fitness thing. As I said above, I’m only trying to ask for more as he gets fitter - we started on no contact giraffe mode and have added contact, bend, constant pace, etc. as he’s ready to handle it. Still not asking for much at this point, just really looking for advice as I continue to add things so we can prevent the issue from truly becoming constant. (I do think that horses can be brats, just the majority of time it’s not that)

On a different note, I tried something new these past few rides. When he got fast, I loosened the reins a little but put him on a big circle, basically telling him “you can go fast you just have to be balanced and properly bent”. He would run a few steps before correcting himself, I just sat and supported with my leg, he was really good about self regulation, which is I think good. I just rode with all the leg and he was great. Slowed down? Leg. Fast? More leg!

I’ll add a video for fun in a few minutes - crappy video but I was alone and using a jump standard to hold the camera.

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b2bwWFvrWf0

Is this the same horse that has had multipe soundness issues, including collateral ligament and suspensory problems?

If so, there is your answer… in my experience contact issues either boil down to lack of education (horse or rider) or, horse in pain.

Horse could be in pain for a number of reasons ; lack of muscling, lack of fitness, actual injury… And if it is the same horse as in the other threads, I would not be working him in contact…

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Same horse. Still under vet care. Still on limited work schedule with considerations for footing and fitness. Pain was ruled out by the fact that I have this issue on other green horses but not super broke ones, it started before this injury cascade, and he doesn’t do it with my trainer, as well and a vet/chiro exam.

I am aware it is an education issue, hence the thread.

He looks fine in the video, if you slow your posting, take more feel with that same leg - you will have the connection.

Thanks ^-^. He’s not fancy but I love him to bits. Right now that video just shows a few moments of a good go around, hopefully with work and muscle that’ll not just be the norm but we’ll get even better.

I’m looking at even buying a dressage saddle, we mainly jump/event but he benefits enough from dressaging I think it might help even more. (My jump saddle in the video has a flatter seat and is not to supportive of sitting deep or driving from the leg, it’s a jumping saddle through and through not even an AP saddle)

He looks fine. Remember to prove the inside rein and praise with voice.

In sitting trot your stomach muscles are used to lift the poll. You don’t want to use them for blocking