Continuing from the vent thread, (Reactive dog)

[Lunabear1988]

I figured putting lesson here would be more appropriate than the vent thread anymore. Although initially it really was just a vent of frustration but now more a course of action.

I just booked a consultation with a senior trainer at the humane society. The reason I went with them is honestly partly a fairly reasonable price. (Cheaper then the veterinary behaviorist but in line with other dog trainers in the area.) But also they are where court ordered consultations go. I just figured that they see the reality of reactive dogs quite often. The senior dog trainer is basically only consult with reactive and aggressive dogs. The other trainers do everything else.

It’s not until January 2nd. But until then I will just be using trazodone or CBD as I see fit.

I do want to get a thyroid test done and possibly trial a pain medication. But after an extremely hard year financially that’s going to have to wait until after Christmas.

And truth be told I think the behaviors are more likely from poor really socialization from his breeder and on top of that poor breeding as well.

I strive to be realistic and we’ll talk to my husband about a dollar amount to not exceed. And also probably a time limit as well.

I’m hoping for the best but trying to remain grounded as well.

[Lunabear1988]

I have a friend that works at a feed store. I was in there yesterday and talking about the dog. She herself has a dog that actually bit someone and got pretty aggressive. She tried some pretty expensive training that was thousands of dollars. She said it helped a little but in reality she will never really trust the dog. He now lives with a family member of hers who lives in a rural area with lots of land.

One of her coworkers walked up to me and handed me a card. She said that they had a client that came in and just raved about this dog trainer and that it saved her dog. I didn’t pay too much attention to the card and went about my way. And my friend said that the lady actually came in so she gave her my number to give to the dog trainer.

So the dog trainer called me. She had a pretty long pitch. Pretty vague about what they did other than use actual dog body language. Pretty dang expensive.

It was Bark Buster’s. I recalled something about that name but then looks it up and found some negative reviews. Basically they don’t use treats and they don’t use shock collars they like throw bean bags and water bottles at the dogs and bark and “baaah” at them and stuff like that. No thanks! That would not help this dog in ANY WAY.

[Larksmom]

sadly, you know what you should do. You are talking yourself out of it, and of course, it is a tough thing to do. But I waited too long, and my dog killed two cats. After the FIRST one, I thought I will keep him contained, I will not let him loose, etc etc etc. I waited too long. You are waiting for this dog to kill something even more precious to you than himself.

[Lunabear1988]

I just want to make sure that I’m not putting down a young dog just because he’s a lot of work. He is very very trainable so I think that’s what’s giving me pause.

I put down two young horses. Due to neurologic conditions. It was very difficult but part of it was I knew their quality of life was only going to go down and there is a real true possibility that they were going to hurt or kill somebody themselves. But I will say I did have to get a few professional opinions first. Then I felt I could sleep at night and look myself in the mirror after.

With my wobbler’s horse it was all pretty quick. I noticed something was wrong got my vet out, took him to one of the local hospitals, got the diagnosis and a consulted with another local hospital that I had worked with. And that was enough for me.

So even though it is yes and possibly hard I’m not afraid to do it if it’s the right thing. I just need to be 100% sure that it is the right thing.

[pony_baloney]

I rescued a reactive Chihuahua mix (not nearly as dangerous as a large dog but a nuisance). The book Click to Calm by Emma Parsons has been very helpful for us. Check out her videos. Maple would spot something half a mile away and bark and go nuts. Now if she sees something, she’ll check back to me (click/treat), looks again/back to me (click/treat). After a year we’re now able to walk past most other dogs with barely a yip. She’s afraid of a clicker so I just click my tongue.

Your dog may never be trustworthy in every situation but if you can deflect the reaction, it’s a start. Or just by training a command to deflect; I use a “touch” command to get her back to me.

Good luck. It’s not easy and it’s neverending training but hopefully you’ll find a way to help.

[Lunabear1988]

Yeah he used to be reactive to people or dogs walking by but we have done a lot of training and that got better.

The real problem is the sudden aggression towards my small dog.

[Lunabear1988]

The stress around the house is too much.trying a NSAID But if that doesn’t make a drastic difference quickly I think I have to make the call.

Apparently a boarder at the barn is a dog trainer. I talked to her a bit and her reactions did not give me warm and fuzzy feelings. One of the first things she said was a badly bred border Collie or herding dog is a real mess. Then she told me that her husband who’s a dog trainer just got viciously attacked and they had to put the dog down. Then when I told her it was mostly him going after my little dog that was pushing me over the edge, she just frowned and said yeah once that starts, it just escalates.

She didn’t really give me advice but like I said her initial reactions weren’t good. That’s on top of the other dog trainers we used before… Who told me they thought he was a very odd dog.

My plan is to give him the best weekend ever and hope that I don’t change my mind.

[JBCool]

@Lunabear1988

I just want to make sure that I’m not putting down a young dog just because he’s a lot of work.

You aren’t. You have given him every opportunity, but I agree I don’t think this dog can ever be trustworthy. Something just doesn’t work right; you said yourself he’s not himself in those aggressive moments. When a vet says euthanasia would probably best for everyone, it is time. I know it sucks, but I agree with @Larksmom: don’t keep hoping for what you want him to be until he after seriously injures the other dog or escalates to your daughter. Prayers for strength from here.

[Lunabear1988]

I have a friend that’s trying to talk me out of it and even offered to pay for consult with another veterinarian (that sounds a bit woo-woo. Using energy and herbs…)

Obviously her intentions are good. But really I need to just keep my emotions out of it and look at the facts. My small dog is getting more and more fearful of him and walking around her own house. I’m quickly losing all my trust in him by the day. My daughter is scared and she’s worried that she might get bit. My parents are now fearful of him too (We don’t trust our own dog, why would they? ) His circle is getting even smaller

[dressagetraks]

You know him much better than your friend. You say you want to try everything so you can look at yourself in the mirror, but could you look at yourself in the mirror if he truly hurts your other dog or a person in the meantime? You know what’s needed here. I’m sorry; the whole situation is awful. But it’s time. Remember that he will not miss all the years he doesn’t get; he’s not thinking about the future and how you owe him that. He just knows now.

[Lunabear1988]

Yeah my friend doesn’t know him at all because we can’t have strangers in the house. I won’t even risk it anymore.

Yeah I am seriously concerned for my little dog. If not something physical, her mental state. She’s very sensitive (they both are but in different ways, maybe that’s part of the problem here.)

And I do think it would be so traumatic for the family if he seriously injured my little dog… it’s traumatic losing him too but it’s probably just the inevitable. At least he got to have a family that loved him. And I really do love him and I tried so hard. He is sweet. Just troubled.

[Angela_Freda]

@Lunabear1988

I just want to make sure that I’m not putting down a young dog just because he’s a lot of work.

You’re not

Edit to add
Both dogs, this one and your little one, are lovable and deserving of a home and care.
But one puts the other in jeopardy.
That’s unfair.
Your little dog didn’t do anything to deserve that.
The little dog has tolerated this for several years, right?
That’s so unfair to them.

@Lunabear1988

My small dog is getting more and more fearful of him and walking around her own house. I’m quickly losing all my trust in him by the day. My daughter is scared and she’s worried that she might get bit. My parents are now fearful of him too (We don’t trust our own dog, why would they? )

[Larksmom]

My small dog is getting more and more fearful of him and walking around her own house. I’m quickly losing all my trust in him by the day. My daughter is scared and she’s worried that she might get bit. My parents are now fearful of him too (We don’t trust our own dog, why would they? ) His circle is getting even smaller

You need to read this over and over.

[Lunabear1988]

They used to get along great but regardless it really is unfair to her. She has done nothing to warrant it. She’s confused.

[Lunabear1988]

That’s part of why I posted here. It’s easier to see, written out.

[Lunabear1988]

It’s Not “All In How You Raise Them”: The Role Of Genetics In Behavior

I thought this was a good article that probably had a lot to do with how he is. He was timid and prone to aggression when we got him (I think he was 12 weeks. If I remember correctly the breeder had told me he was 10 weeks but then the paperwork from his vaccines calculated that he was a bit older.)

I love him and I will miss him. He was fun to train. He knows a bunch of tricks and walks great on a leash. He used to play SO well with the little dog- it always seemed like their play style matched so well. My heart hurts a little for my little dog - it’s scary to her now but she usually really enjoyed his company and rough housing.

I really wish I could out train his genetics and poor early socialization. Or heck , I had a friend that was a former vet tech bring up the very real possibility of a brain tumor or some other brain abnormality. I’m thinking back and how he was the day we got him… And I actually think it’s impressive that we got into almost 4 years with him. He’s played a lot, gotten lots of treats, bones and booty scratches.

This weekend my mission is for him to have THE BEST WEEKEND EVER. I might see if my parents can take my little dog for a bit. My mom just had surgery but maybe by tomorrow or Sunday would be easier for them to have her.

[Dr_Doolittle]

I’m so sorry, @Lunabear1988.

You’re doing the right thing, I know you know this, but the reality is a little harder to bear; it’s always hard to say goodbye to a dog, no matter your history with them - a dog that has been part of the family, and one who you’ve loved and given a good life.

As a trainer, I believe that all dogs deserve a chance – but not all dogs are “fixable” - and you need to prioritize protecting your loved ones. Big {{hugs}} to you. I expect that along with your sadness you will also feel relief, and as many have mentioned, dogs have no conception of time. Quality of life “in the moment” is everything to them.

Dogs who are this reactive are not happy dogs, so at least he will now be at peace. As always, “we take their pain and make it our own.”

[Larksmom]

I hope you don’t think I am a monster or very cruel. I know it will break your heart, but believe me, it will be much worse if he kills the other beloved dog. I am so sorry you are going through this. Hugs to you.

[Lunabear1988]

No not at all. I know everybody is just trying to be realistic about a hard situation. And of course it’s the hardest on me since I’m attached to the dog. But I know my emotions just cloud everything too. I first vented November 30th. And here we are a couple weeks later, same feeling.

Our hearts always want to convince us that it’s not as bad as our brain may think.

My daughter is pretty upset though. That might be the hardest part. I guess that might be my only regret about getting him. Dragging her heart through this.

[OnAMission]

I had a dog that was reactive to small dogs and oh hey my parents had 3 small dogs. We got through one attack on their beloved dog and a year later my dad nearly killed himself rushing to break up another random attack that came out of the blue. We put the dog down on the “better too soon than too late” premise. I still remember and miss her but seeing my dad fall down screaming while trying to save his dachshund from that bigger dog was burned in my brain and we had NO DOUBTS. Had that dog even side-eyed my precious chi-cross that would have been done long before we realized it was other small dogs.

Your daughter won’t feel any better if she finds/sees your little dog torn up, or if she gets torn up trying to break up an attack. Dogs die for a lot of reasons; keeping everyone around them safe is one of the better reasons for them to be free of the static in their heads. You can’t protect your daughter from losses if you have pets but you can support her and make it a teachable moment.

Sometimes you have to step way back to get things in focus; you know too much not to do this. Treat yourself fairly that you’ve been through things in the past that this is tripping some triggers but sometimes life just hands you a crap sandwich that you have to deal with.