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converting race horse straight off the track to pleasure horse

Racing
#181

[QUOTE=Eclectic Horseman;7003117]
I didn’t see anyone supporting a horrible decision. I saw a few people rationally pointing out that the OP provided very little information in her posts, and that there was no reason to vilify her on that basis.

From what I have seen, OTTBs are very often “hot potatoes” that people give away or sell for short money to starry eyed romantics just to stop the financial bleeding. The OP had very little invested in time, money or attachment to this mare. If the original owner gave her up to an inappropriate home was it now the OP’s moral obligation to care for that horse to the bitter end?

Whether it is because the OTTB is unsound or temperamentally unsuited for a second career, I have found them to be the cause of altogether too much heartbreak. I’m certainly not sure that it is the OP who should be ultimately responsible for this situation.[/QUOTE]

You have not spent much time around OTTBs, then, I guess. Or you have spent time around some OTTBs that were in the hands of the wrong kind of people.

FYI, OTTBs are not the cause of “altogether too much heartbreak” - it’s the idiot people associated with them that cause these situations.

For those who really think this is a good situation for the mare and that she isn’t pretty well “spent” as a racehorse, I encourage you to go through and read the race reports for her over the past several years. Even when she was winning, she wasn’t typically racing all that well. She was erratic at best, and reading between the lines in the race reports, appears to have been mentally and/or physically spent some time ago.

And, no, I’m not giving the former owners a free pass, but the fact is that this person took this mare on and now does have an obligation to do right by her. It’s just disgusting to me that so many people seem to take the position that, hey, no one cared about this mare before and she is this person’s property, so who cares what happens to the mare now?

There is more information available than just what is in the OP’s posts, but those posts alone paint a disturbing story.

#182

Yea, I understand she’s a nice mare but I’d be happier to hear the mare is being bred by someone with experience…again, no confirmation on that. I hope that’s the case. And it’s just my opnion.

#183

Only about 50 years. :lol:

What I frequently see is that many OTTBs are too unsound for careers as performance horses, so they are adopted or sold to people who just want a horse to hack around on, and unfortunately, many are temperamentally unsuited for that with the intermediate, backyard riders who will be handling them.

Maybe it is just where I am (Boston area) but I doubt it. I believe that it is racehorse owners who have the moral obligation to find a suitable situation for their horses or put them down after they are done with them. Not dump them on the well-intentioned but ignorant purchaser.

#184

[QUOTE=Eclectic Horseman;7003169]
Only about 50 years. :lol:

What I frequently see is that many OTTBs are too unsound for careers as performance horses, so they are adopted or sold to people who just want a horse to hack around on, and unfortunately, many are temperamentally unsuited for that with the intermediate, backyard riders who will be handling them.

Maybe it is just where I am (Boston area) but I doubt it. I believe that it is racehorse owners who have the moral obligation to find a suitable situation for their horses or put them down after they are done with them. Not dump them on the well-intentioned but ignorant purchaser.[/QUOTE]

But by all means, if an intermediate, backyard rider ends up with the horse, that intermediate, backyard rider should definitely race the horse at a bush track and then breed it, right? Because pfffft, who cares what she does with the horse since it was the former owner’s responsiblity to do right by the horse?

#185

And again, this is a PEOPLE problem, not an OTTB problem.

#186

From a running horse perspective, she’s not well bred. This is her page and you can see her under the second dam:

http://obssales.com/aprcatalog/2012/672.PDF

I wouldn’t breed her but she’s not mine so I don’t get a say. Seriously some of you of so lofty in your opinions, you’re risking a nosebleed. The fact that she can essentially be pulled out of a field and win a race at Miles City tells me that this is amateur central. But in my mind that is really not that much different as green as grass eventing where you pop over logs. Maybe it is just a fun weekend program where people play at being jockeys and trainers once a year. Maybe it is clueless idiots with cripples. I know I’ve seen both kinds at weekend horse shows too.

But you know it’s not a crime to have a little fun with your horse once in awhile. Without knowing more I’ll just assume that.

#187

[QUOTE=FineAlready;7003223]
And again, this is a PEOPLE problem, not an OTTB problem.[/QUOTE]

Yes, of course. Whoever said otherwise?

But I don’t believe in blaming the victim of a systemic problem. And it is a systemic problem. I think that it has gotten better since steroids were outlawed, and there is more being done on all race day medications and track conditions.

But again, we don’t really know the OP’s situation but although it is too bad that she cannot or will not be the solution to the problem–She did not cause it.

#188

[QUOTE=Eclectic Horseman;7003245]
Yes, of course. Whoever said otherwise?

But I don’t believe in blaming the victim of a systemic problem. And it is a systemic problem. I think that it has gotten better since steroids were outlawed, and there is more being done on all race day medications and track conditions.

But again, we don’t really know the OP’s situation but although it is too bad that she cannot or will not be the solution to the problem–She did not cause it.[/QUOTE]

I refuse to consider the PURCHASER of a TB a “victim of a systemic problem.” The OP claims to have approximately 30 years of horse experience, which means she is an adult. She could have put on her big girl pants and considered the advisability of purchasing a race horse before she did it.

The only victim here is the horse. Pretty much everyone associated with her has let her down, and now people here are suggesting that this is all just fine. So, this owner comes back here and reads a bunch of support for running the mare into the ground and breeding her…THAT’S not part of a systemic problem?

I just don’t understand the attitude of “Hey, I made some bad decisions and got myself into a tough spot…but this random person showed up and wanted to race the horse, so what the hell…and then I’ll breed her…that will fix it!” It really and truly is possible to do the right thing by an animal even if you think you’ve been taken advantage of or otherwise burdened. People do it all the time.

#189

[QUOTE=FineAlready;7003341]
I refuse to consider the PURCHASER of a TB a “victim of a systemic problem.” The OP claims to have approximately 30 years of horse experience, which means she is an adult. She could have put on her big girl pants and considered the advisability of purchasing a race horse before she did it.[/QUOTE]

Didn’t sound like she purchased the horse to me. She gave them “a little monies and they shipped her out.” I think was what she said. Sounds like she paid for the shipping, and the track owner dumped the horse on her.

We don’t know that this horse is being poorly cared for or that she will come to a bad end. The horse is merely back in the situation that it would have been in if the OP had not given the owner a little monies to ship the horse.

#190

[QUOTE=Eclectic Horseman;7003372]
Didn’t sound like she purchased the horse to me. She gave them “a little monies and they shipped her out.” I think was what she said. Sounds like she paid for the shipping, and the track owner dumped the horse on her.

We don’t know that this horse is being poorly cared for or that she will come to a bad end. The horse is merely back in the situation that it would have been in if the OP had not given the owner a little monies to ship the horse.[/QUOTE]

She VOLUNTARILY took the horse. Maybe it is just me, but when I send money to someone to ship a horse to me, I don’t consider that having a horse “dumped” on me when the horse shows up. That’s me taking a horse, voluntarily. If she sent money and wasn’t expecting to receive a horse on her end, then she has more problems than I originally contemplated.

#191

So, now the OP is a victim…Wow I don’t think I can even wrap my mind around that one…I guess I have been victimized 3 times…

#192

[QUOTE=hundredacres;7003154]
Yea, I understand she’s a nice mare but I’d be happier to hear the mare is being bred by someone with experience…again, no confirmation on that. I hope that’s the case. And it’s just my opnion.[/QUOTE]

That’s why, given where she is, I’d breed for an Appendix riding baby. WAY better QH options out west. I like her bloodlines but you’d have to ship her way too far for a decent TB stallion. (Okay, I like QH/TB crosses, too. Best case, you get TB looks/brains with a big motor in the back and some heavier bone. Assuming you avoid the halter QH stallions with the teacup feet, but I wouldn’t send a QH mare to one of those, either.)

#193

[QUOTE=danceronice;7003500]
That’s why, given where she is, I’d breed for an Appendix riding baby. WAY better QH options out west. I like her bloodlines but you’d have to ship her way too far for a decent TB stallion. (Okay, I like QH/TB crosses, too. Best case, you get TB looks/brains with a big motor in the back and some heavier bone. Assuming you avoid the halter QH stallions with the teacup feet, but I wouldn’t send a QH mare to one of those, either.)[/QUOTE]

Oh GOOD! Head desk Now we are actively encouraging her to breed this mare. Let’s mention the worst case scenario then too, shall we? She gets a piece of crap baby and she can handle neither the baby nor the mare, both of which are too hot for her.

#194

[QUOTE=FineAlready;7003532]
Oh GOOD! Head desk Now we are actively encouraging her to breed this mare. Let’s mention the worst case scenario then too, shall we? She gets a piece of crap baby and she can handle neither the baby nor the mare, both of which are too hot for her.[/QUOTE]

So you’ve decided she obviously knows nothing about horses at all, can’t raise ANYTHING, shouldn’t race her, can’t ride her, shouldn’t breed her to ANYTHING because she obviously knows nothing about any breed of horse in the entire world, and is probably going to put her in a claiming race because you assume that’s what she’s going to do…pray tell, what SHOULD she do? Have you chosen the discipline you think she should pursue with the mare? Or you’re going to offer to pay the mare’s upkeep as a pasture puff whether she or the horse like it or not? Or you could just, you know, buy her yourself like you were trying to get someone else to do. If what someone does with a horse I assume you’ve never seen in your life is THAT important to you, cough up the cash.

Personally, I’d try for a QH cross in that particular situation. Because I have no other use for a mare (I wouldn’t buy one without intending to breed it so that would be the plan going in for me-I want a pleasure horse or pet that’s what geldings are for), and because crossed on a good foundation type, that’s a good way to get a gaming horse or a general riding baby. I wouldn’t bother racing her, but then I wouldn’t be dragging her to a trainer and forcing her to jump or cranking her into a dressage frame as an alternative, or obsessing over working with a horse whose temper I didn’t like under saddle.

I wouldn’t bother with a race baby, but given where they are, a stock horse cross is not going to automatically be crap and the horrors. Because most times, it’s not the “ZOMG WORST CASE SCENARIO.” And people who make different decisions than you personally are not always doing it just because they have no idea what could happen, or just to personally offend you. I don’t think someone selling their older hunter who can’t do 3’6" any more and they want to keep showing is doing it to offend me, even though selling your show horse because he can’t chase fifty-cent ribbons at the fence height you want and they can’t afford a second show horse is a lot worse to me than owning a low-level claimer. I keep my horses, whether they can do what I might want or not, whether I can afford to buy a second horse then or not. That means no showing, or no riding in my old horse’s case, so be it. That does not make owners with different priorities horrible people who should be stalked and harassed until they do what I want with horses THEY own.

#195

You’re really something, you know that Danceronice?

I guess I’m not really surprised that you see nothing wrong with this person breeding this mare, or racing her, or, heck, staking her out in her front yard on a dog leash if that’s what she wants to do.

PS - you obviously don’t know the definitions of the terms “stalk” and “harass,” as I’ve done neither.

#196

I think some of you who think the OP is a talented rider/trainer might want to read the OPs first post. Thinking a harsher bit will magically train an OTTB was for many of us, our first clue about the talents of the OP…But encourage away into breeding because there are so few TBs and quite frankly Appendix horses…Especially from backyard breeders…

#197

[QUOTE=raspberry jam;6978513]
I just got a 16 hand race horse 6 years old she does not bend, stop, respect you while
you lead her. Can I eventually get her calm enough to ride pleasure.
Big Thoroughbred. Need advice. What kind of bit should I use on her.[/QUOTE]

Stolen her post says nothing of the sort about a harsher bit. She simply asks WHAT bit she should use on the mare. You could poll barn after barn and ask them what bits race horses are used to or what is a good bit to start a strong horse in and I’ll bet you get a lot of “huh” and I have no ideas some really interesting choices and a few that get it in the right ball park.

Perhaps it is you that needs to READ the OP’s post without projecting your own feelings and inferences into it.

#198

[QUOTE=FineAlready;7003681]
You’re really something, you know that Danceronice?

I guess I’m not really surprised that you see nothing wrong with this person breeding this mare, or racing her, or, heck, staking her out in her front yard on a dog leash if that’s what she wants to do.

PS - you obviously don’t know the definitions of the terms “stalk” and “harass,” as I’ve done neither.[/QUOTE]

You certainly did solicit people to do just that. Unsolicited phone calls are harassment and you flat-out told people “Hey, someone go check out this horse that isn’t for sale or even running for a tag so there’s no indication the owner has any desire whatsoever to part with her and try to get her to sell so she’ll be doing what I, who have no interest in her, think she should be doing.”

And I worry about what I do with the animals I own. I suggested she have someone look at the horse in person because no bit suggestion on here would mean much without seeing it, and I suggested if she hadn’t been off racing a while, give her a break and see what her behavior’s like then. The OP didn’t do that. No skin off my nose, not how I handled MY horse, but it’s not my horse or my life. Unlike you, I don’t go on a personal crusade because someone doesn’t do what I would with a horse they, not I, own. If I did, I’d be harassing and berating people who dump their show horses when they want to move up or it doesn’t work out (like half the posters on the show forums here seem to be prepared to do), because I don’t really approve of people who pretend their expensive hobby is THAT important they can just pass the horse along and buy a new one because they need to “progress” personally. Nor would I want someone harassing me because my horse could do “more” than occasionally walk around the farm with me on his back, or he should be fatter/thinner eating this/eating that wearing this bit/that bit clipped/not clipped using this saddle/that saddle shod/unshod…

I offered advice WAY back before people lost their $#!t. OP didn’t feel like taking it and is doing what SHE wants with HER HORSE. It is not my personal problem, or anyone’s problem (if it is one at all) but hers. She says she’s thinking (for the moment) about breeding her later. Okay, in the new scenario I’d cross for a QH/TB baby and think more for riding or gaming. If the OP likes that advice, mazel tov, if she doesn’t, again, my world will not end nor will I feel the need to go around encouraging people to try and buy the mare so someone will do what I think should be done. There are LOTS of threads on here full of people not doing things with their horse or their dog or their cat the way I’d do it. My next-door neighbor doesn’t keep his animals the way I keep mine . I don’t browbeat him about it. I’m certainly not going to flip out over someone on the internet not doing exactly as I would, either.

#199

[QUOTE=Lynnwood;7003824]
Stolen her post says nothing of the sort about a harsher bit. She simply asks WHAT bit she should use on the mare. You could poll barn after barn and ask them what bits race horses are used to or what is a good bit to start a strong horse in and I’ll bet you get a lot of “huh” and I have no ideas some really interesting choices and a few that get it in the right ball park.

Perhaps it is you that needs to READ the OP’s post without projecting your own feelings and inferences into it.[/QUOTE]

Bits do not train horses trainers do that. You might want to read my response to the first OP post. Anyone who actually has experience with training OTTB or other horses knows this. But hey, I guess some of you really do have no idea about horses…

#200

Um, I do not have the OP’s phone number and have never once encouraged anyone to call her. The racetrack the mare was running at was publicly identified BY THE OP, and anyone can go there and anyone is welcome to talk to the owner of the horse if she is willing to talk to them. Anyone is also welcome to make an offer on any horse at at time, even my horse, even your horse. The owner may turn that offer down, of course, but it is not harassment to make an offer to purchase a horse. Somehow I feel that the owner would be open to talking to people making inquiries on the horse if she was open to the random inquiry from a passerby about racing the horse that she had standing in a field.

Nor is it harassment to claim a horse in a claims race if a horse runs in one. That’s how claims races work. Do I know that the horse will ever be run in a claims race? No I do not, but it is not totally crazy to think that she will be run in one at some point. Further, the horse can be followed on Equibase, so if anyone is interested and she does run in a claims race at some point, they can claim her. Again, that is not harassment. Anyone can follow any horse on Equibase at any time. The horse will not mind.

I’m not sure if you are trying to hit some kind of nerve with me by talking about people dumping their show horses, or what? You keep bringing it up an awful lot, as though you think that’s what I do or something. Your strategy is not very effective because I don’t do that and in fact don’t even show at all anymore. Like you, I own one TB and I’ve modified my goals to suit what he is capable of doing.

You know, I have every right to speak up if I think someone is doing something ethically problematic with a horse. I’ve no doubt the OP will ignore my views on the topic, particularly in light of posts like yours, but that doesn’t mean I should not speak up. And that doesn’t mean that other people who are geographically closer to the horse and who may be interested in her cannot ask the OP if she would like to sell the horse, or claim her at a claims race if the OP decides to run her in one. None of that constitutes harassment. Likewise, posting my opinion about a situation on a bulletin board for opinions is also not harassment.

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