Cor de la Bryere/Rigoletto stamm 2004 mare, suggestions

[Leah_A]

Hello all,

I have a 1990 Corde/Rigoletto/Fasching mare from stamm 2004 that I’m having some trouble really deciding what blood to use with. Its an old pedigree but the mare is quite modern with quite a bit of blood phenotypically.

Some info:

Won her field MPT (although the scores appear to be a result of not being well prepared). Total bonits of 45.

http://www.horsetelex.com/pedigree.php?horseid=21546
http://www.horsetelex.com/progeny.php?horseid=21546
http://www.horsetelex.com/family.php?horseid=21546

4 offspring in Europe:

1. '95 mare by Aurelio whom I can’t find info on
2. ACORD’S CHAMPION by Accord II; stallion, licensed and approved Bavarian (Bayern) and ZfdP; winner of the jumping portion at his test; has produced 2 licensed sons and a number of horses successful both in showjumping and dressage; is ranked and also on the USEF Dressage sire list; listed in the stamm book
3. ACORBRYERE by Accord II; successful to 1.50m
4. PRONTO by Paramount; currently successful to 1.40m and moving up

4 offspring in Canada:

1. the oldest is an '05 by Landos and currently successful to 1.20m, moving up, and is the rider’s expected next big horse

She is from the Mensa branch and her St Pr mother is maternal sister to the mother of Landadel and grandmother to the Holst appr’d stallions Caronimo, Contec, and Cool Man K; the mother of Ratibor and grandmother to appr’d stallions Coraldyk and Livingstone and 1.40m-1.60m horses; etc.

The mare herself is long lined, elegant, with a beautiful head and neck. She most definitely needs topline improvement with close attention to the loin (hers is long and weak), she is also long in the pastern. She is a spectacular mover, especially for her age, still shows lots of elasticity and good joint articulation. She does appear to lack power.

I’m thinking I’d like to add some power/scope back into the pedigree but need a good topline, correct in the leg, and carrying capacity. I was very interested in the thread a little while ago about Capitol and Corde (sons) and would love to hear what is thought about what to do with Corde as a damsire. I know he is thought of as a “sire of sires”, however, the Stallion Book by Dr. Rossow states “Unfortunately, because of their rideability, many good daughters went into competition and were not bred”.

I will be doing ET’s with her this year and she is still very fertile. I’d prefer frozen semen. I’m breeding for the market but will be keeping the fillies until I determine whether they fit into my program. Any filly I keep will be bred as a young horse, put into sport, and come back to the breeding program after their sport career is over.

I would love any input on Holsteiner stallions or stallions from a Holsteiner motherline. I have a list already but would really like to be sure I’ve looked at all the options for this mare, as she is special to me. She was “snuck” out of Germany via a broker, when her former connections learned she had come to Canada they tried to buy her back. When the gentleman in Germany sold her and loaded her into the trailer, he reportedly sat on the curb and cried

I would also love to hear if anyone has any ideas why they put her to Accord II, Paramount, and Landos while still in Europe. I have some ideas and would like to learn more! Thank you so much in advance.

[TKR]

Congratulations on your wonderful mare and it’s wonderful how much thought and attention you are putting into choosing the right stallion for her. It’s so nice when a great mare is highly respected and appreciated! I am not qualified to give you any advice on a stallion, but can’t wait to read what some of the Holsteiner gurus have to say – where’s Reese???
PennyG

[Bayhawk]

[QUOTE=TKR;6112665]
Congratulations on your wonderful mare and it’s wonderful how much thought and attention you are putting into choosing the right stallion for her. It’s so nice when a great mare is highly respected and appreciated! I am not qualified to give you any advice on a stallion, but can’t wait to read what some of the Holsteiner gurus have to say – where’s Reese???
PennyG[/QUOTE]

Reece has been out fishing on this glorious Virginia day !

Leah , if you send me a video of your mare moving at liberty and some side conf. shots , I may can help you. We need to first look at Capitol descendants.
rmiller1265@fairpoint.net

[TKR]

Oops, sorry about the spelling error, ReeCe! Hope you are enjoying your catch tonight, LOL!
one cent

[HyperionStudLLC]

We stand some superb Stallions with that Capitol blood you’re looking for.

[Leah_A]

Thank you, TKR, for the kind words. I am passionate about breeding, am very much a student, and feel a huge sense of responsibility to produce the best offspring I can and to ensure those offspring have a good quality of life and are of value. I love to learn and am grateful to those who are willing to share knowledge. As I haven’t yet had the opportunity to trudge around pastures and talk to those successful, long time European breeders (although that is in the plan!) I am always excited to hear the reports from those that have. And, yes, this is a mare who deserves respect! I feel honoured to have her.

Bayhawk, thank you for your offer of assistance! I always start with pedigree and then follow with a full conformation analysis as well as analysis’ of temperament, jump (scope, technique, bascule, reflexes, etc), movement (I always try to retain or improve the quality) and progeny, and have had good success with that formula. However, the offer of another set of eyes is appreciated! In the meantime, what are you thoughts based mainly on the pedigree?

My first instinct is Capitol, as you say. However, she also needs a good topline and good quality of movement which are not what we usually find in Capitol sons. I haven’t found one that fits all the requirements that is available with viable semen so am hoping for some suggestions that I haven’t thought of!

Alternatively, what is the next best option for power that offers topline, movement, and correctness? I’m not sure Contender is a great option for this particular mare. Temperament as well, the mare can be a bit fiesty and has some opinions!

HyperionStud, I’ve been quite impressed with what I’ve seen of your Zilverstar!

[LPiper]

I’ve been checking this thread 3-4x per day (yes, I know it’s only been up one day) and I’m itching to hear some interesting feedback.

I’ve met this exciting mare a number of times (here’s my claim to fame Leah) and I’m proud to say I matched her with her current, fabulous owner :).

Erotika has a presence like I’ve never seen. To see the elasticity in a mare this age is impressive. Her production record is impressive as well.

I know there are a lot of very knowledgeable Holteiner breeders out there (or breeders of other registries using Holsteiner blood) and would love to hear you weigh in on the blood.

Add topline, power… Doesn’t have a drop of Ladykiller or Capitol. Fertile.
Go for it!

[HyperionStudLLC]

Leah

Thank you for the compliment on Zilverstar… he certainly speaks for himself. He’s a top bred stallion with tremendous ability, of course the American ride is something he’s getting used to now. His results will come as season continues here in FL. What he has shown us to date is power, balance and competitiveness. Every class he’s jumped here at WEF so far, he’s shown improvement which tells us that he’s clever, thoughtful and has the ability to jump huge tracks.

We’re very fortunate to be able to offer him for breeding starting this season. I don’t think you can go wrong with this type. There’s been a lot of buzz about him and we think that’s exciting. Bookings are already starting to roll in and we can’t wait to see his babies next year!

[HyperionStudLLC]

Btw which I didn’t mention before… He’s a beautiful mover with a powerful hind end, nice top line and conformationally correct. Not to mention he’s absolutely gorgeous!

[why_not]

Quintero!!

[Bayhawk]

[QUOTE=why not;6115556]
Quintero!![/QUOTE]

You’re funny Harrie ! She said she needed to improve on the topline ! Lol

[Leah_A]

[QUOTE=Bayhawk;6115975]
You’re funny Harrie ! She said she needed to improve on the topline ! Lol[/QUOTE]

Thanks for the input everyone!

The Quintero suggestion brings up another question…Should she go back to French blood? What would be the positives and negatives with Corde? They did use the Alme blood with her successfully…

I am working on new pics of Erotika (what a name!) as I don’t have anything from when she was younger and only have what I’ve taken out in the field for my own reference. And we are in the middle of a full Alberta, Canada winter (winter coats are not the most flattering)!

[Leah_A]

Pics finally sent!

[Leah_A]

Many thank you’s to the people who offered some suggestions! I am narrowing down the list and am interested in any information on:

Calato
Casiro
Clarimo
Catoki
Numero Uno

Specifically, what they are known to consistently produce and what types of mares they need. I’d also like to find conformation photos of Casiro and Clarimo if anyone has one!

[rodawn]

No, I agree with Bayhawk.

I would first check out Capitol. Some of his kids did not have the strong propensity for producing a better topline, but some of his kids DO and maintain spectacular jump.

You could also consider another or Cor’s descendants via the Calypso, as long as it is far enough out, such as Continue (or sons) which adds some Tin Rocco, which some people like and some people don’t, and it depends on the mare. Again, be choosy to pick out the traits you like.

You have considerable options with your mare. No wonder you are overwhelmed with the choices!