Did people not read my post? I am saying some of the exact same things you are! What can we do to stop this from happening?
I know this thread should be allowed to die from natural causes, but in looking for the name of a horse that won Maclay some years ago, I came across this list of winners of years past:
http://www.medalmaclay.com/eqresults/36.html
One can’t help but notice that these horses get passed around quite a bit for maybe three years or so. Coco pop, Patrick, etc.
Exactly Bristol everyone knows the deal. although I’m not a fan of some of these trainers and I’m not defending them, they do their best to treat these horses right. So for this jr. to sudden realize this “horse abuse” because it didn’t go her way it’s a bit questionable. I wonder(like someone else pointed out what would have happened if she did well in Medal or Maclay) It might have been a totally different article lauding her trainer, the horse, the industry and how much everyone was great and doing the best for the horses. We all read those before, a lot of amazing to describe everyone and everything.
[QUOTE=Lix Tetrax;7651231]
Did people not read my post? I am saying some of the exact same things you are! What can we do to stop this from happening?[/QUOTE]
Reading it loud and clear.
[QUOTE=Lix Tetrax;7649554]
It’s not a secret what the trainers do. We’ve all seen it, Olivia saw it firsthand. What can we do to stop it?[/QUOTE]
Evidently not.
There are generally two ways to handle a controversial post on the BB. You can own it, either by continuing to support your position or by apologizing for an error, or you can ignore it. Either one will earn you far more respect than somehow pretending it doesn’t exist.
[QUOTE=hunterjumper25;7641166]
Hello DownYonder, I just wanted to chime in here…
Ok first of all, not all mothers have the time (or resources) to be fully knowledgeable and/or immersed in the horse world. Not all mothers or parents should be expected to know EVERYTHING about horses and their welfare - of course, a bare minimum is ideal, and all parents should have the welfare of the horse in mind. However, I would like to remind you that often it is the parents bankrolling the operation, and when they have spent thousands upon thousands of dollars for all the shows to lead up to, and then for THE SHOW itself, Kentucky, I don’t think many parents would be okay with hearing that after spending all that money, their kid has elected not to ride because she feels a horse needs a break…
Glad to hear that the reason you were “taught to pursue sports, etc., was to learn to think and act in a mature fashion” :lol:[/QUOTE]
I think an important point is that in many OTHER equestrian sports this thought about horsemanship IS taught and instilled from the beginning. A kid finally having a light bulb moment at 16 is actually pretty normal. She is just now having enough knowledge to perhaps look around and really see the issues.
Sorry…but many MANY of us have lost boat loads of money when we have had to scratch a horse because that was the right thing to do for the horse. And it is taught from the start to listen to your horse. In most of the horse sports you have a HUGE choice of competitions that you COULD go to but you have to decide what is best for the horse and that means not going to EVERY single competition. While trainers are key in this process…it is also the rider’s responsibility. And if parents are bankrolling it…then the rider and trainer need to take the time to educate the parents.
That to me is what this article and conversation is demonstrating. Again…a lack of horsemanship. Horsemanship is NOT being installed. Kids are NOT being educated. That chasing points and qualifications puts pressures that do not always make learning horsemanship being a priority and create the wrong incentives. To be sure there are good horseman out there…and I’m sure there are some kids who are learning good skills…but there are also a lot who are not. This is not limited to just Eq. We seen it creeping in to eventing as well…with people on the road and competing too much and not giving breaks etc. Not a new problem either.
We removed some personal commentary and it’s responses. Please avoid it going forward.
Thanks,
Mod 1
[QUOTE=Bristol Bay;7652407]
I know this thread should be allowed to die from natural causes, but in looking for the name of a horse that won Maclay some years ago, I came across this list of winners of years past:
http://www.medalmaclay.com/eqresults/36.html
One can’t help but notice that these horses get passed around quite a bit for maybe three years or so. Coco pop, Patrick, etc.[/QUOTE]
They have many different riders, but they usually stay within the same barn, and at least some of them basically only show at the really big shows and finals.
I actually find it pretty heartening to see how many of the “greats” are still doing their jobs for years and years - Patrick has been around for quite a while, as was Logan before he was retired. I rode an eq horse of Kip’s who was in his 8th or 9th year of doing that job. Icon did the finals for years.
I’m not saying that all of the eq horses live great lives. I’m sure that the ones who are used to qualify and are practice horses live a less-than-ideal life. But I think the finals horses are, in general, well cared for.
There are 2 former big eq horses going strong in the 2’6 and 3’0 local hunters in my area. Just because you never see their names again in the bigtime shows doesn’t mean the horse died or is crippled in a field.
[QUOTE=bornfreenowexpensive;7653060]
I think an important point is that in many OTHER equestrian sports this thought about horsemanship IS taught and instilled from the beginning. [/QUOTE]
What other equestrian sports is this thought horsemanship instilled from the beginning?
[QUOTE=Bristol Bay;7652407]
I know this thread should be allowed to die from natural causes, but in looking for the name of a horse that won Maclay some years ago, I came across this list of winners of years past:
http://www.medalmaclay.com/eqresults/36.html
One can’t help but notice that these horses get passed around quite a bit for maybe three years or so. Coco pop, Patrick, etc.[/QUOTE]
Not really a new thing. Ivy made his first top 10 appearance at finals 10 years before zazou hoffman won on him.
There have been others, Grappa, Pik Trump II, Brother, Four Wins, Gran Duel, 14 Karat, Loophole…these are the ones I remember going back quite a ways.
The truth is that a true, top equitation horse is a rare animal indeed. Similarly, a top horse has to be partnered with a top rider, or you’ll never see the name again in the top 10. So it really is a game of chance that the right partnerships are made repeatedly with the same horses.
A lot of the top horses are owned by one or two barns, who preferentially lease them to their own riders, which is also why you see a repeat.
and we can probably add Clearway to the list: he won 2 finals with Lillie last year, and has now been sold to Betsee Parker! I imagine he’ll be around for a while considering he is only 9.
Finally got round to reading this article, and I must say I am surprised at the vitriol it elicited from some quarters.
I found it to be quite restrained, and did not feel that it was slamming anyone in particular, but the system in general.
Gawwwwd, hunterworld drama!!!1!!! Is the white tower really so fragile that an article by a teenager can “ruin the sport for everyone else?”
I left hunters for this among 100 other reasons (omg, ride times, I love you). Sometimes a good message is just that: a good message. “Take good care of horses and make their best interests a priority over your ribbons” is a good message, even if, I don’t know, Beelzebub says it!! Sheesh.
In EVERY discipline, there are horses who are overworked in the name of point-chasing, etc. There are also many examples of excellent horsemanship at all ages and levels. Just like sub-samples of the general human population, you get a continuum of both.
Perhaps you should separate threads if folks just want to discuss “people in our sport we don’t like.” Even when I WAS a teenager, long ago, I still had the mental capacity to sift through articles about horse shows and glean the important kernels out. I’m pretty sure thoughtful adults can do the same.
[QUOTE=soloudinhere;7654131]
Not really a new thing. Ivy made his first top 10 appearance at finals 10 years before zazou hoffman won on him.
There have been others, Grappa, Pik Trump II, Brother, Four Wins, Gran Duel, 14 Karat, Loophole…these are the ones I remember going back quite a ways.
The truth is that a true, top equitation horse is a rare animal indeed. Similarly, a top horse has to be partnered with a top rider, or you’ll never see the name again in the top 10. So it really is a game of chance that the right partnerships are made repeatedly with the same horses.
A lot of the top horses are owned by one or two barns, who preferentially lease them to their own riders, which is also why you see a repeat.[/QUOTE]
What happened to Ivy after Zazou won with him?
[QUOTE=SnicklefritzG;7656876]
What happened to Ivy after Zazou won with him?[/QUOTE]
Believe he colicked and passed away that winter.
So whether Olivia said it or not, there are these issues going in. Right? Am I correct in taking that from the thread?
Here are the videos from Oliva Champ’s rounds in 2013 for both the Maclay and USEF/Pessoa Medal. You can make your own assumptions based upon what you see.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eA_aKU__iis
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fbBdf3qize8
I hesitate to comment on the rounds, because I don’t think this thread should be about Ms. Champ’s riding; it should be about her commentary. That said, there is absolutely NOTHING in either of the rounds that leads me to believe this girl was simply upset about “finals not going her way” as some have stated. The horse looked a little strong, but she gave it a tactful and error free ride. Please, do not turn this thread into a critique of her riding or the rounds.
