COTH Article on Eq Horses

[JoeyJoey]

Article is a joke

This article is a joke but not unexpected from this family. Slamming the trainer who she happily took free horse after free horse from - is not very classy. She was given free horses to ride and pre Thermal the trainer stopped supplying horses to her due to other clients needs.

To make the article even more rediculous - is that fact that she notes a task force that her old trainer is on! The trainer she is primarily complaining about is on the task force she hopes will transform equitation.

Olivia Champ was on a gravy train, and the gravy train stopped - and within the areas horse community - it wasn’t pretty when it did. She happily rode her old horse till he bowed a tendon - nothing more needs to be said.

I am not a big fan of her old trainer - but the trainer does not deserve this. Chronicle should have done a little more fact checking before they published this.

[Angelico]

[QUOTE=DownYonder;7640153]
Sorry, I disagree, primarily because the reason I was taught to pursue sports, etc., was to learn to think and act in a mature fashion.

Too bad you did not learn to be mature enough not to make derogatory remarks about someone’s mother you have never even met.

And part of being mature is being able to recognize when my acts may jeopardize the health and well-being of others - human or animal - and being willing to do what I can to mitigate those risks. If HJ25 or any other rider feels a horse needs a break - even if at finals - but her parent or other sponsor wants her to ride anyway “because of all the money that has been spent”, then that is a pretty sad commentary.[/QUOTE]

When you are riding for someone it is not your job to decide what is best for someone else’s horse.

You consider it sad that the people who provide a rider with incredible opportunities expect her to uphold her end of the deal? We aren’t talking about a lame or sick horse being beaten and forced to compete. For all that the parents, trainers, etc put in to get a kid to a final, they have every right to be put out if that rider decides to get there and scratch a perfectly sound, capable horse. Nothing bad happened to the horse Olivia Champ rode. You really think that the connections are terrible for not scratching a horse because one girl perceived him tired, a girl that ended up being unable to make it in the horse world.

Even if you do believe that the trainer is evil and cruel, you can’t seriously believe that they would put that horse in the ring if it was truly that tired, it was a sale horse. That horse had nothing to gain by doing poorly in that class; he already been to multiple finals, the trainer would not risk a valuable animal like that hurting himself or ruining his reputation by having him seen stumbling around the course. The trainer had nothing to gain by putting that horse in the ring if he was dangerously fatigued.

I agree 100% with Lil Tetrax. An equitation championship should be just that, nothing more. Stop trying to make it something it’s not. Whether or not a rider has trained young horses is irrelevant to the class. A rider is not lazy or talentless or any less capable just because they use seasoned horses for the big classes. An eq final is has nothing to do with bringing up young horses Stop trying to use one class or division to “save” American riding; it won’t work, it can’t no matter how much you over-complicate it.

[JoeyJoey]

It is riders LIKE Ms. Champ who need to be controlled. She stopped riding because her supply to free horses stopped. She had planned on showing all of Thermal till suddenly…there was no horse supplied to her and the family went storming off furiated that they were being asked to pony up to lease something.

And everone needs to be aware that the trainer she is complaining about is ON the task force she notes. Enough said.

[leyla25]

Not only that she might ruin for others that might actually need the horses for free in order to participate in this classes. I think after this and having the Chronicle behind the article it might scare some owners to lend horses to trainers. It is too bad!!!

And Busylady I am all for the welfare of the horses. I think most people in this business are. The horses get overworked at times but they get excellent care, massages, vet and farriers. I should print you the bills of what I paid for all those services at some of the top barns. Like all athletes there is wear and tear. I do find it ironic that some of the BNTs give interviews and say that they don’t mind a fresh horse when in fact they are the ones creating the model for others to follow of the robot like horse with all the preparation. That I think it’s the problem and misconception. If the riders love their horses, the owners and the trainers don’t mind fresh horses how come horses get worked so hard before competition??? And yes the equitation is a nice class but it is not necessary to win in the big stage of world jumping i.e. Europe(where eq. does not exist) versus USA.

[Thoroughbred1201]

[QUOTE=MIKES MCS;7640165]

Why is that … Is it now impossible to expect a 15 or 16 year old to bring along their own horse? or to even get on a fresh horse anymore without the assistance of drugs, lunging and pro rides ? Is that what it’s come down to ? You make it sound like non of these kids can actually ride. If this is true then what the point of Equitation classes . I can tell you this , when you get down to the “grass roots” level , there are plenty of 12 year olds starting and training their own horses , yes they have some help usually in the form of their weekley lesson and no they aren’t competing in the upper levels , ( If they could afford that they wouldn’t need to go to the track and buy their bargain basement horses), But if they had the money to go to those AAA shows week after week , I can imagine they could pretty much ride any of the well trained EQ horses , not sure if the opposite would be true.[/QUOTE]

I helped out last year at a 4-H over Fences Clinic. 4-H gets a bad rap most of the time, but I was really, really impressed with these kids. It was a rainy, windy, icky winter day, and the horses were all really spiced up. Not one kid got off to get cotton to stick in their horses ears, lunged, gave ace, or said ‘another day’.

Every single one of them laughed, and just rode through it. And rode through it well. They had learned to ride their squirrely horses to scary jumps in a new atmosphere, and made it look good!

I am well aware that this particular county’s 4-H over fences program is pretty special, and that most of the kids took lessons with A system trainers, but still. They didn’t bat an eye and dealing with the problems themselves. They just worked through them. It made me realize how little you see of that anymore.

[PonyPenny]

[QUOTE=JoeyJoey;7641820]
It is riders LIKE Ms. Champ who need to be controlled. She stopped riding because her supply to free horses stopped. She had planned on showing all of Thermal till suddenly…there was no horse supplied to her and the family went storming off furiated that they were being asked to pony up to lease something.

And everone needs to be aware that the trainer she is complaining about is ON the task force she notes. Enough said.[/QUOTE]

Thought so. It is a case of sour grapes when the gravy train stops.

[cyberbay]

The trend all of us who are dedicated to the horse and who work daily to learn more/be better now have to suffer is the ‘junior’ who also does “all her own barn work while at the horse show.” Just read a few of the recent horse-show write-ups, and the insertion of how the kid wraps, feeds, mucks…

It’s not particularly believable, either. There are plenty of juniors who DO do their own horsecare, have always done it, and do it well. And they always have. They just aren’t “A” circuit, so media look to the left and the right of them but never at them. To overshadow them and those of who never waivered from horse care with this silly trend of trumpeting how this or that junior is bandaging her horse right now, and the GM Hmastership forums with the delivery of the experts to these kids’ doors – as if a single lecture will make them experts, too – is kind of obnoxious.

And keeping a horse primed for top showing is very expensive, and finding the clientele that has the $, the time, the interest is very hard. I don’t blame these trainers for using some ‘outside’ help or for overtraining to make it all come together. It’s not right, but it’s very, very understandable. If we want to help the show industry, we need to address the economics.

[leyla25]

Right on the money cyberbay.

[Anne]

After reading Winter’s article, George Morris is to the crest release as Missy Clark is to the dead quiet equitation horse.

[JoeyJoey]

[QUOTE=michaelwatkins;7630644]
In thinking further, I realized that one of the reasons I found the article so offensive is that as someone who struggles to pay what it takes to compete, and realizing Champ has been " given " horses to compete with for free,including the ones she mentions in the article, it struck me that now that she not only doesn’t have the money to compete, and because she is so ill- mannered no one wants to "loan " her a horse, she professes that she “will no longer do the equitation”. As if she is stopping out of principle and love of the animal. But that is not true. [edit] this “I am a hero and protecting horses and saving the world from equitation” is laughable crap. She wasn’t complaining when she had the free horse and was winning.[/QUOTE]

This is 100% correct. She planned to do ALL of Thermal till a horse wasn’t available. I am all for better policing of horses - but she & her parents were the ones out there most guilty of doing just that at any opportunity. Now that no one will give her any more free horses - she is all sour grapes.

[Zuri]

[QUOTE=JoeyJoey;7642256]
This is 100% correct. She planned to do ALL of Thermal till a horse wasn’t available. I am all for better policing of horses - but she & her parents were the ones out there most guilty of doing just that at any opportunity. Now that no one will give her any more free horses - she is all sour grapes.[/QUOTE]

I apologize in advance as I don’t process well and get confused sometimes.

Did OC decide to stop showing because she would have to lease (as in pay $) a horse? And not for the reasons stated in the article? So she was given horses to ride for free because of the exposure the horse would get to command a higher price? And did she have the opportunity to lease Lamont for a fee and chose not to because it was no longer free?

Thanks for answering.

[busylady]

Joey, in all fairness to Ms. Champ, please try to only make statements you can back up. I don’t know her and I don’t doubt that her attitude is as bad as you and others say, but I can check USEF records and it doesn’t appear that Ms. Champ showed her last horse as much or as often as Lamont (when Champ wasn’t riding) and some others from the same barn were shown (one of them was shown in 19 classes at one show - 19 classes!!!). It’s clear you disagree with Champ, and that you think she is the problem (and we all know how horrible equitation girls who demand free rides are…whoa daddy…someone should do something about them), but how about less mud slinging and only making statements that can be supported. Makes for a much better conversation.

[JDKHARL]

I am successful on the A circuit without doing 5 over fences per day. Usually 2-3 classes and never all 5 days of the show.

[Soaponarope]

I agree with the general tenor of what you are saying Cyberbay. But, there are A and AA shows going on all over the country while WEF is going on. A circuit kids can qualify for junior hunters or pony finals by winning a championship or reserve at one show and there is no need to chase points. Many of them keep showing to pick off the competition for sure. But there are certainly A circuit kids who do national finals and don’t ever go to WEF or other lengthy circuits. Some of those kids also know how to wrap, muck, feed, and lunge without the GM Horsemanship clinic. I do wish that the equitation were more like pony finals and junior hunter finals. We do need to address the economics of that because it is cutting out a lot of riders simply because they can’t show every weekend. And of course it is running those horses into the ground as we’ve said.

[JoeyJoey]

[QUOTE=busylady;7642310]
Joey, in all fairness to Ms. Champ, please try to only make statements you can back up. I don’t know her and I don’t doubt that her attitude is as bad as you and others say, but I can check USEF records and it doesn’t appear that Ms. Champ showed her last horse as much or as often as Lamont (when Champ wasn’t riding) and some others from the same barn were shown (one of them was shown in 19 classes at one show - 19 classes!!!). It’s clear you disagree with Champ, and that you think she is the problem (and we all know how horrible equitation girls who demand free rides are…whoa daddy…someone should do something about them), but how about less mud slinging and only making statements that can be supported. Makes for a much better conversation.[/QUOTE]

I appreciate what you are saying but I am intimitely involved with her barn - though we are ultimately with another trainer - everything I have stated is 100% true. The Champs are allowed to show however they want - with horses they own, lease or are given to ride - but there is a history with the family with multiple trainers of them demanding free horses. Additionally she is insinuating that Karen Healey was at fault in some way for using a sales horse in a relatively appropriate manner. I find it interesting that she - or perhaps her family - write an article insinuating this after they were told that if they did not pay the appropriate lease fees they would not be getting a horse for ALL 8 WEEKS of showing at Thermal. This is not mud slinging - this is fact.

Additionally I find it quite humorous that she complains about how the horses are treated and the fact that a task force has been set up to look into it - and Karen Healey is on that task force.

[leyla25]

OMG! I was right! Furthermore Joey’s input is important because she/he knows the characters and story behind it. What you call “mud slinging” is clarifying the situation. The article is misleading to many that want to believe the goodness and sincerity of some horse loving junior whose only motivation is to defend the welfare of the horses.

[Ponytoes]

MY thoughts. The horse was “tired” we have all been “tired” at one point but had to continue on. If we are really sick or hurt we go to hospital/dr - but apparently - horse was just “tired”. He had one more class. Probably most horses/people in the Olympics/WEG whatever are tired too - but you carry on to make it through, it is a “final” you have had to work hard to get to a “final.”
But not many have a hissyfit if they don’t do well and say “I quit” after its over. Bet she doesn’t ever make it to another GM clinic

[Lix_Tetrax]

[QUOTE=JoeyJoey;7642671]
I appreciate what you are saying but I am intimitely involved with her barn - though we are ultimately with another trainer - everything I have stated is 100% true. The Champs are allowed to show however they want - with horses they own, lease or are given to ride - but there is a history with the family with multiple trainers of them demanding free horses. Additionally she is insinuating that Karen Healey was at fault in some way for using a sales horse in a relatively appropriate manner. I find it interesting that she - or perhaps her family - write an article insinuating this after they were told that if they did not pay the appropriate lease fees they would not be getting a horse for ALL 8 WEEKS of showing at Thermal. This is not mud slinging - this is fact.

Additionally I find it quite humorous that she complains about how the horses are treated and the fact that a task force has been set up to look into it - and Karen Healey is on that task force.[/QUOTE]

I got your sour grapes right here…

[MonterStables]

Okay, I’m just going to put my two cents in here and leave it at that.

I am another one of those riders who showed on the A circuit ONLY because they were riding a sale horse. My parents were not going to pay the exorbitant amount of money to buy an A-AA quality horse for me to show, so my then trainer had this horse who had gone from barn to barn all over the country in hopes he would sell who didn’t sell back at the barn who was just sitting there. So that was the horse that gave me the opportunity to show on the A-AA circuit for a whole year.

Looking back on it, the horse was a product of being overused and overworked and drugged with things to keep him sound. I couldn’t even show this particular horse at the last few horse shows I was supposed to do because he kept going lame and at the last minute my trainer was SCRAMBLING with other trainers to find me a horse to show at those shows. For that, I am grateful because I wouldn’t have gotten that vital experience at that level without this horse. There were a lot of classes I didn’t win because the horse had physical limitations that kept him from jumping well and unfortunately the trainer wouldn’t speak up and point blank told me that ‘my career was over’ when in fact the mistakes made were not because of me, but because of the horse’s lack of physical health. That being said, I did not play an Olivia Champ and go right out there and say how bad things were when I lost classes I should have won.

Because that would be an insult to the trainers who DID try to help me and my then trainer as well who for all his problems found me other horses to show and ride. The horse I’m speaking about is now living in retirement and all’s well ends well.

[Ponytoes]

No words…and obviously everyone else is dumbfounded too