COTHy Wan Ken-goatie, you're my only hope

[aregard]

Hi there, COTH, My granddaughter* has made a solid presentation on the acquisition of a couple goats both for the benefit of my new land, and for her 4H project.

I haven’t done goats before. I’m sure some of you have!

Advice? Books? She will be joining 4H, but there are things we need to know before she’s 3 months in to 4H. What are those things?

*She really wanted a pig, but 4H only does pigs as meat producers and she’s unwilling to see her project sold for slaughter. This is her first attempt, so I understand.

[Sandysmom]

There is an excellent Facebook group call Successful Goating with Rosie that has all sorts of excellent goat information. The owner, Rosie Ramsey, is very experienced. The pinned posts on feeding, worming, medical treatment, etc. are excellent. I’d say the first thing is fencing. Goats are escape artists and as good as horses at getting injured. Do you know what kind of goats she is thinking of getting?

[aregard]

@Sandysmom

Do you know what kind of goats she is thinking of getting?

SMALL ones. I’ve already warned her that we are unlikely to want to keep goats for their full lifespans, so she should switch her head to “livestock” rather than “pet”.

Thanks for the pointer!

[Sandysmom]

Then you want Nigerian dwarfs or mini nubians. Nubians are a dairy breed. IDK, about Nigerians. The smaller goats seem to be better at escaping, imho, than the bigger goats. I’d recommend does. She definitely doesn’t want a buck, they are smelly and can be aggressive. Wethers are fine but they can be prone to urinary calculi.

[aregard]

@Sandysmom

Then you want Nigerian dwarfs or mini nubians. Nubians are a dairy breed. IDK, about Nigerians.

I like the idea of a dairy goat (DH would like to make cheese), but am not sure I’m ready to sign up for milking. Granddaughter does not live here during the week, so the care will fall to me. Thanks for the pointers, though. There are nubians for sale in our neighborhood – have to find out if they are MINI nubians! Does for sure.

I saw some wool goats online that might be an option (if they come in “small”). We could do some sheering and weaving.

[Sandysmom]

Full sized goats aren’t any more trouble than the smaller goats. Nubians are noted for being noisy.

[beowulf]

I would search for FB groups local to your area and ask this question there as well, to get a feel of the pulse of the community vis a vis what breed is suitable for your area, what breeds are saleable or easily rehomeable to 4H if processing is not palatable to your DGD.

You will need good fencing and a good sense of humor. They are crafty but find the most stupid ways to get hurt. If you don’t debud the horns, they get stuck in ways you wouldn’t imagine. I extracted one from a hay net that was hung 4ft up last week.

Our goat pens are standard 4 board fencing with chicken wire on the outside. Some of the smarter ones can climb over it.

Prepare to have your goat vet on speed dial. They seem to get hurt more often than horses.

The genuinely small breeds (pygmy, nigerian dwarfs and mini nubians) are as about hardy as wet paper. I like Lamancha and Boer the best for hardiness and resale value.

No matter what breed you get, they are loud and equipped with ceaselessly untiring pipes. We are between two farms with our south-east side bordered by residences/suburbs. All three farms (including us) have goats. Our neighbors bitch constantly about the noise and they’re not wrong. The goats are loud. I’ve learned to tune it out as I go about my chores.

We have (boer) does and bucks. The bucks are born dopey and sweet, and are much more tractable than the does. Some of the does are sweet too, but not always tractable. Bucks get much bigger, though. The non-breeding males are castrated (wethers), we haven’t had much an issue with urinary calculi yet, it seems only our valuable breeding stock seems to incur vet bills

The bucks will stink.

I am not convinced the smaller goats are less work. Both need to be halter broke and taught to respect space.

Whatever breed you get, they do need some grooming, trimming, and general care you’d associate with a horse.

Goats add a lot of “amusement” factor, but they are work.

And they are the WORST hay wasters ever. It drives me nuts how much hay they waste even if you put it in a manger or net. They might eat 10% of a good, high quality flake and trample and pee on the rest. Even our pickest hay connoisseur horse inhales our homegrown hay… Not the goats.

[Alex_and_Bodie_s_Mom]

I can’t add much to the great advice given about goat care (I live next door to goats, which is enough to make me not want them), but from the 4-H side of things: if your granddaughter wants to show, make sure you get goats that are show-quality. Just like if you planned to buy a registered horse to take to breed shows, you want to buy the best-quality goats you can. Having lived through 10 years of 4-H, I can tell you that the days of taking whatever you want to the fair and doing well with it are OVER. The judges will be looking for breed standards. She’ll also need to learn how to groom and handle them in order to show them.

Call your local extension office and see if there is a 4-H Goat project leader in your area who might be able to show her the ropes, and maybe even offer advice on purchasing goats.

[Sandysmom]

My Gruff is a Saanen and he isnt noisy. He will answer if I call him and sometimes will “talk” to me but is otherwise silent. His “wives” that visited last winter weren’t noisy either. They’d bleat and get excited at feeding time but not all the time. I agree with the hay wasting. Also, regarding vets, vets that are knowledgeable about goats and who will treat them are few and far between.

[aregard]

Oh gosh. I just found a great rabbit vet – maybe I should change her focus? I’m not enthusiastic on signing up for massive vet bills.

[chestnutmarebeware]

I would…. goats aren’t for the faint-hearted.

[2DogsFarm]

I have nowhere near @beowulf 's knowledge, but Boers here are meat goats & the 4H ones are sold as such.

So, unless you want full-time custody of grand’s goat after Judging/Auction, consider another breed.

Neighbor has a dwarf doe, now probably 8-9yo, & they don’t milk.
I think does need to be bred to produce milk.

[cayuse]

My neighbors had goats and everyone who has posted about the vet bills are correct. Make sure you have a goat-friendly vet. One that makes farm calls. Our neighbor’s vet didn’t like to and Mr. Cayuse trailered the goats to the vet numerous times during “goat emergencies” as neighbors had no truck/trailer.

[Sandysmom]

My great niece is showing rabbits in 4H and loves it.

[candyappy]

My kids showed both meat goats ( Boers) and dairy goats ( Nubians) in their years of 4-H. We never ran one of ours through the sale at the end of the year.

I still have a breeding herd of Boers 14 years later. I can count the number of times a goat has seen the vet on one hand, so they aren’t as bad as people think.

Nigerian Dwarf are smaller and considered dairy goats and would be a good choice if you want something small. They also come in any color imaginable and are cute as can be. You need at least 2 as they do well with company. I would suggest 2 does.

Worms are your biggest health issue with goats. They need clean, dry housing and if on pasture( browse) you need to make sure they don’t over graze as it ramps up the worm threat.

Fence with livestock / horse fencing and make sure it almost touches the ground so they can’t squeeze out. Make it tight as well. Goats are jumpers or squeezers and our fences have always kept mine in no problem.

Goats are wonderful and have so much personality. I adore all 30 of mine!

[aregard]

“Personality” is what everybody says about goats.

I’ve also found fainting goats for sale in the area. I understand it’s a genetic mutation that makes them funny (and might make them easier to pass on by the time granddaughter loses interest) but not sure if they are fragile or stout. They are more expensive. Like horses, I am guessing that the initial purchase price is peanuts compared to the ongoing costs for upkeep.

I will have to work on her anti-meat attitude, since many of her friends in 4H are going to be raising meat animals, and she does not need to get off on the wrong foot with them. So I’m trying to encourage her to see that she’s raising an animal that might become food for her (well loved) dog in the future. Her dog cannot help his carnivore proclivities, and this might ease her into “nature’s cycle of life”. Dunno.

If I could find a nice horse to lease, this would be so much easier. But so far, I haven’t had good luck there. Still looking. But it is also true that I could use a couple good browsers on the property. I was hanging my hat on spring geese, but they are grazers more than browsers, so they might not serve me as I need anyway.

[luvmyhackney]

I just added two Nigerian Dwarf wethers to my group of creatures earlier this summer.

They are the easiest things ever but must have a pair of goats, not just one. They stay in a 5’ tall tiny square wire fence that is reinforced on the bottom and top with wood on about 1/2 an acre of my property. They are escape artist and can jump high to be so little. Mine are super social, sit with me and follow me around our property and I’ve been clicker training them to come when called and “go to bed” at night.

They eat a handful of feed once a day, minerals, baking soda, and fresh water available.

So far no vet bills other than an annual checkup. I get their fecal test done same time as my horses.

So far they are way easier than my dog and the horses. I’m a fan and will probably get a couple more in the spring. Only wethers though. Billy’s stink and I’m not going to milk a goat daily.

[aregard]

Holy smokes. I signed up for a couple of the goat groups on Facebook, and am seeing calls for help with all kinds of diseases and conditions! Lameness from injections, worms, POLIO, joint ill, coccidia, listeria, copper deficiency, eye infections, abcesses.

@luvmyhackney

They are the easiest things ever but must have a pair of goats, not just one.

I figured that part (herd animals) but now I fear I might have to buy 3 in case 1 dies from one of those mysterious diseases listed on Facebook!! Sheesh.

I always buy chickens in sets of 4, then add to the flock in sets of 2 for the same reason. One can keel over at the slightest provocation.

I understand a lonely goat is a noisy goat. (Of course, a pair of goats may be noisy as well just to be goaty.)

[Sandysmom]

Goats do better in pairs but my Gruff is an only goat and seems happy. I originally had 2 but Pervert, the other buck, became too aggressive so some nice latino gentlemen invited him to a barbecue. Gruff has since bonded with the horses, particularly my mini, and hangs out with them. Even when his wives were visiting, he was happy to go back to the horses once the does were bred. The downside is he is very protective of “his” horses so I have to lock him in the stock trailer before I can do anything with them.

[betonbill]

And you need to find someone who will trim their hooves. Most farriers will flatly refuse to do it. And be prepared to worm them a lot–and ivermectin is currently in short supply.