I guess the title says it all! I’m looking for an older horse with more of a been there, done that personality for my daughter to do 2’6" hunter-jumper courses, but in my price range, I’m coming up with a lot of horses with a western background. There is one that has had experience with an English saddle and has been taken over crossrails, which he seems to enjoy. Could this horse be trained to ride hunter courses? Thank you in advance for your thoughts!
If you are looking for a “been there done that” horse to give your daughter confidence jumping small courses you probably need a horse that has been there and done that already JUMPING. Any reasonably sound and slightly athletic horse can be trained to jump up to 2’6 but this takes time and a confident secure rider. There is also no guarantee it will have the step or be the type to go around like a hunter and make the course look smooth. Some western horses are taught lead changes and some are not so that would be another thing the horse may have to learn from the beginning with an experienced rider. Green to the discipline is green no matter the age.
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Yes. Probably not by your daughter. Any horse can jump 2ft 6. However, a novice horse with a skilled rider will learn to do it consistently and well.
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I had a middle aged QH hony mare with a Western background that we had cantering small courses with kids inside of 60 days. Was she going to pin at A shows? Negative. Was she safe and reliable? Absolutely. She ended up going to a petite adult looking for a confidence builder.
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Yes, absolutely, if they have a forward gear (not a Western pleasure “jog/tranter” sticky, go-nowhere type) and someone to start them safely and confidently. Those type already are safe and sane by breeding and training, usually, so there’s half your battle. Take your trainer to evaluate the horse’s overall demeanor and level of training. Too much of a western indoctrination can be hard to overcome. Is it built really downhill? Also another consideration when asking a horse to jump- those tend to jump over their shoulder and the rider struggles to not tip forward all the time, ending up in the “back seat” as it were to balance the horse’s forward tilt.
Here in the PNW we see a fair number of QH, Paint, etc. in the local hunter rings. Many are absolute saints but won’t win at A shows or against more typical hunters at the B/C shows.
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If your daughter is in a lesson program with a trainer who can put some rides on the horse, my answer is “Maybe”.
Is your daughter a strong enough rider to work with a green horse?
Can she handle a refusal/run-out at a fence?
This so horse doesn’t learn either is an option.
How much experience does she have at 2’6"?
If you go with a horse who has done crossrails only, 2’6" might be beyond the horse’s ability. To do with any form and/or safely.
Agree with those saying find an older BTDT horse.
One stepping down from Working could
probably help your daughter handle 2’6".
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One important thing to consider is the horse’s conformation. Beware of straight pasterns, small feet, a straight shoulder that won’t allow for stride or lift, etc. Even at 2’6 they won’t stay sound or willing.
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I did this very thing at 13 with a large pony QH who was 13 when I got him. My mom’s budget was small, he was a decent mover, willing and bombproof. He had been jumping x rails for a month in lessons before I got him, and was jumping 2’6” courses within a year. I was not a particularly skilled kid and did not have a trainer putting rides on him, just me. Not my first pony and not my worst pony, but I was young enough to just believe if I pointed the new guy at the jumps, he would jump, and he did. He ended up being a very competent children’s hunter in a competitive area, and if I had him today I wouldn’t hesitate to put DH on him for a trail ride. I believe he came through an auction so his background wasn’t known but we had his papers.
As with nearly everything, it really comes down to temperament, both of the horse and your kid.
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I firmly believe the horses brain is much more important than it’s resume. It doesn’t matter if the horse has won all the things if only very skilled riders can maneuver it through the course.
So if the horse has a good brain and she’s working with a trainer, teaching the horse to do the 2’6” should be no problem at all.
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OP, you’ve already gotten some good advice. I’ll just add— as someone riding western after over 4 decades doing hunters— that professionally trained western horses are pretty specific in their skill sets. Those trained to compete in western pleasure go a certain way that’s typically not conducive for jumping. I’d try to find one that is labeled an “all around” horse. They’re kind of jacks of all trades vs. specializing in western pleasure. As a result, they tend to have more of a real canter, which would be beneficial in teaching them to jump.
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It’s really, really going to depend on the horse.
I lean towards no.
If the horse was trained western and was good at his job, it’s unlikely he’ll be successful in a hunter ring. Most of the western horses I know are very, very successful in their “box”. But their box isn’t like a venn diagram where there is crossover into the hunter ring. If it’s a “true” western horse - ie its winning regionally or nationally in the pleasure or horsemanship, you’re probably never going to place over fences because it’s highly unlikely it’ll make the step.
If the horse was trained western in the sense of “it wears a western saddle most of the time” or “we show at a local/4H level” then it very well could be a phenomenal hunter. My reining bred APHA mare was broke “western”; she can’t win a reining class, but has a world title over fences.
The key is what defines it as a western horse - the saddle it’s wearing or it’s actual aptitude at western events.
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Had exactly this experience. Bought an adorable 6 year old flashy chestnut QH who was doing pleasure and some other class I’m not sure the name of (kind of like an obstacle course?) when I was 12 years old with my clueless parents, kind of trainerless at the time. Found a trainer who taught him to jump 2’6’’ and to do lead changes, but the poor guy was lame within a year. Gave him to a farrier to ride on trails. Paid $4500 for the horse.
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I say sure.
Sadly the quarterhorse is so pervasive in the US, but if you have the right conformation and soundness.
Skip anything trained hardcore for calf roping or barrel racing.
We flipped a lot of decently conformed qh’s into kids hunters.
Have them trot over something challenging like a 12-15 inch obstacle to see if they pick up in front. We had a gorgeous gray who would not lift his knees. We sold him to a guy who deer hunted by horseback, so calm and so sweet, we were sorry he didn’t pan out.
Would also recommend ex-polo pony over a quarterhorse. I abhor the downhill conformation and bad feet they’ve stuck on what used to be a fine little horse.
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Specific answer: Since this horse is already being ridden English and has been started over crossrails, then the answer is almost certainly “yes.” (Assuming that the English riding has been going on at a H/J stable under a legit trainer.)
Generic answer: It depends on the horse.
I love a good western-broke horse. Lots of people do. A big warmblood breeding/dressage operation I used to be familiar with had all their horses started by a cowboy colt-starter. I also personally know a western-trained AQHA who has competed successfully at WEF in the lower level hunter classes. My preference, as an old lady who doesn’t bounce anymore and is only ever going to compete at the local level, is a nice, older AQHA who has been trained both western and English.
The important question is does the horse have the movement required to do well in the hunter ring - and if you’re talking about local shows, there is a lot of latitude in what is acceptable movement, especially at the lower level. I would avoid a horse that has been shown exclusively in western pleasure because that extremely slow WP jog/lope is probably too ingrained. However, one that has been shown in hunter under saddle (HUS), both HUS and WP, or something like Ranch Pleasure, should be more than capable of making the transition to lower level hunters.
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It seems challenging to take a horse that has only done crossrails and to turn it into a pre-children’s hunter in a timely fashion. Most of the local 2’6’’ hunters I know are essentially seeing eye dog school horses who used to do bigger jumps but can’t anymore. They might not be pretty, but they’re safe, have auto changes, seem to count the steps in the lines, and will take the kids over the 8 jumps as long as they’re not going to die. I think it is easy to underestimate the height of 2’6’’. Sure it is low, but for an animal to jump safely from a wide variety of distances while putting the correct number of strides in a line is not something that just any horse can do. If a kid just wants to get over 8 jumps, doing simple changes and adding in all the lines, a lot more horses could be considered.
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I’ll also challenge that theory. Many moons ago when I was looking for my first horse (we’re talking like 25+ years ago), someone pulled out a quarter horse that was doing some low level dressage and had recently converted from a western horse.
I’m here to tell you that the poor guy was capped out at 2 foot. Maybe. We took him over a crossrail multiple times, and everytime the poor sucker just didn’t get it. Canter, trot, walk… you name it… he clunked it. Never learned. Could care less. Just bulldozed or clunked it.
Needless to say, we passed on that one and the trainer happily reported at a show later that year that he found a lovely home with a woman that wanted a pleasure horse and was afraid to jump. We were very happy (and relieved) for both of them.
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Oh, for Pete’s sake. Go look at the dozens, hundreds, thousands, of quarter horses who were/are trained western and are successfully competing over fences, not just in breed shows but at USEF rated shows. All your 25+ year old anecdote proves is that not every horse can successfully carry a rider over a course of fences. And that failure is not unique to quarter horses.
In addition, given the trends in modern breeding for AQHA hunters, a 25+ years old experience is meaningless. Back then, virtually no one was breeding for quarter horses that could go out and compete over fences at all, let alone against “real” hunters, i.e. at USEF rated shows, but today, there are plenty of AQHA-registered horses competing successfully in the hunter divisions at rated shows.
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Nothing wrong with a western background per se. Older horses can learn to jump. Athletic type quarter horses are awesome.
However, concur that if you’re looking for a confidence builder for your daughter that this is maybe not the ideal scenario - the horse is learning, and also if the horse is 15 and has not been jumping, it’s a question of whether the horse will stay sound jumping. I’m a fan of older horses in general but putting mileage on an older green horse is always going to be a gamble in terms of, will the horse work out, and will the horse enjoy and stay sound and comfortable in their new use.
Even more so if you’re looking for a show hunter, and not just a fun horse.
I know horse prices are high right now. I assume you’re working with a trainer who is helping you look.
I’d keep looking, looking for a lease, a horse who is older, etc. You might also find something in a funny size, like 14.3, that will take care of her and be suitable for jumping around in a fun and safe manner, if the types of classes she wants to do would work for that.
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One of the biggest problems I see with this scenario is that you’re looking to “step up” a horse from crossrails to 2’6” when the majority of horses at that age or just a bit older are looking to step down. So the math is not on your side.
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Ummm… yes they were. There was literally a Lynn Palm Crosby Equilibrium saddle that was made for the quarter horse hunters or for wider backed horses. We also had a quarter horse that was a jr hunter at our barn but he wasn’t a career-shifter.
My $.02 was simply that… and yes, there are always horses that will also turn it around, but there are also plenty that have no clue, scope, or ability.
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