COUNTY SHOWS VS A-RATED SHOWS

[jumperqwert]

Here’s the problem :
There are so many riders I know in San Diego who go to A rated shows but still regularly show in county shows. Here’s a example- some riders I see online show at county shows in the 2’6 (as the lowest) but they go to a A Show (like Blenheim) and do classes that are 3’3 or above.
This really bothers me because just from the looks of it, they all just want the blue ribbons to show off so they can look better than everyone.
If you have the skills to successfully jump 3 foot and above, why go to every county show and participate in a height level you know you will have the best chance in winning a blue ribbon or champion?! Why show in the lower classes when you have won continuously over and over again!?
There should be a rule that enforces riders to move up a division after a year or two if they end up winning every class.
It really takes the fun out of everything when yourself and others are trying so hard for a good round to at least place but someone who has done the height level multiple times each year ( and they do it effortlessly ) has to go in and wreck everyone’s hopes!

I really am tired of horse show people, everyone is there for the money and ribbons. No fun at all. Just trainers and parents yelling at their kids and kids judging and making fun of others for their effort.
What is up with this world!

[Scribbler]

@jumperqwert

Here’s the problem :
There are so many riders I know in San Diego who go to A rated shows but still regularly show in county shows. Here’s a example- some riders I see online show at county shows in the 2’6 (as the lowest) but they go to a A Show (like Blenheim) and do classes that are 3’3 or above.
This really bothers me because just from the looks of it, they all just want the blue ribbons to show off so they can look better than everyone.
If you have the skills to successfully jump 3 foot and above, why go to every county show and participate in a height level you know you will have the best chance in winning a blue ribbon or champion?! Why show in the lower classes when you have won continuously over and over again!?
There should be a rule that enforces riders to move up a division after a year or two if they end up winning every class.
It really takes the fun out of everything when yourself and others are trying so hard for a good round to at least place but someone who has done the height level multiple times each year ( and they do it effortlessly ) has to go in and wreck everyone’s hopes!

I really am tired of horse show people, everyone is there for the money and ribbons. No fun at all. Just trainers and parents yelling at their kids and kids judging and making fun of others for their effort.
What is up with this world!

Go trail ride for a year and get away from it all. Best antidote.

I get where you are coming from, but unfortunately the way you phrase this also makes you sound like a pot hunter.

Now here is a question. Are these riders bringing the same horses to all the shows? My guess is not because really if you have a horse jumping at the one meter, then you are probably not going to want to wear it out doing baby jumps on alternate weekends (unless of course the horse is packing around kiddie students). My guess is that these riders use the county shows as schooling for their greener horses, or warm ups for the season. Or they are using the county shows to school across the course and work on their own pacing and form.

In other words, you don’t know why these riders are here.

At the rated levels, there are indeed some rules about moving up in height, but these rules apply only to the horses not to the rider. You do realize that every time a skilled rider starts a green horse, they are back to square one? So yes, a rider can have competed Grand Prix (jumping or dressage) and be back in the ring next year at two foot six or Training Level dressage, with a green horse.

[jumperqwert]

@Scribbler

Go trail ride for a year and get away from it all. Best antidote.

I get where you are coming from, but unfortunately the way you phrase this also makes you sound like a pot hunter.

Now here is a question. Are these riders bringing the same horses to all the shows? My guess is not because really if you have a horse jumping at the one meter, then you are probably not going to want to wear it out doing baby jumps on alternate weekends (unless of course the horse is packing around kiddie students). My guess is that these riders use the county shows as schooling for their greener horses, or warm ups for the season. Or they are using the county shows to school across the course and work on their own pacing and form.

In other words, you don’t know why these riders are here.

At the rated levels, there are indeed some rules about moving up in height, but these rules apply only to the horses not to the rider. You do realize that every time a skilled rider starts a green horse, they are back to square one? So yes, a rider can have competed Grand Prix (jumping or dressage) and be back in the ring next year at two foot six or Training Level dressage, with a green horse.

Why don’t they just do a schooling class or warmup???
Plus why would they need to work on their form or pacing when they are literally winning most of their classes at rated shows?
If you can afford rated shows , why do you need to go to a county show? Like don’t they want to challenge themselves ?
Calling out to all of the trainers kids and people with money who like to enter every class they can with 100 horses in one show

[Scribbler]

@jumperqwert

Why don’t they just do a schooling class or warmup???
Plus why would they need to work on their form or pacing when they are literally winning most of their classes at rated shows?
If you can afford rated shows , why do you need to go to a county show? Like don’t they want to challenge themselves ?
Calling out to all of the trainers kids and people with money who like to enter every class they can with 100 horses in one show

Well, it sounds like the County shows are very competitive in your area and you are just going to have to up your game.

Perhaps there is a lower level of schooling show that you could enter in that these folks don’t attend?

[Xctrygirl]

Ok first, I am not in San Diego. Second I do compete in both rated and unrated shows. I don’t think that there’s a problem with competing at both level shows as there’s a myriad of things that could be at play with any horse & rider as they’re competing. Just off the top of my head:

Rider nerves
Horse nerves
Rider inexperience with a new level and needs bumping confidence back to get more solid
Ditto as above with horse
Issues with away at show behavior only. (Doesn’t replicate at home)

And the list goes on and on.

I really think the bigger issues is the fact that you’re separating the participants of these two kinds of shows as not being equals when, in my mind anyway, they are very much equals. The job is the same. Get in the ring, use the lessons you’ve been taught, win against the nerves and such and jump the courses to the best of your ability. If you can’t see that, there’s not much I will be able to say to convince you. The cost variants for the two shows don’t affect anything other than how much your bank account gives up for you to go and jump. Sure the courses and footing may vary but not the underlying goal.

I don’t see as much of a problem with people going and showing where it suits them, their horse, their wallet or their schedule. I mean would you have a huge issue with a schooling show rider going to an A show?

In this case my advice would be to re-read (or if you haven’t read it at all) “The Sneeches” by Dr. Seuss. The man was a genius at explaining societal issues.

http://courses.cs.vt.edu/cs2604/Summ…/Sneetches.txt

Em

[roseymare]

I think it is great that you have such quality competition.

It really isn’t much fun to win when there is no completion. Sure there are a few people out there who just want the ribbon but it really is not as many as you think.

The only thing that will keep horse shows alive is the open shows. I have been arguing this for years and years.

I am glad to see they are becoming popular in most parts of the country.

[2DogsFarm]

Even our local County Fair has Novice classes, where horse/rider have not won 3 blues in that particular class.
Of course, that can depend on an entrant’s honesty :rolleyes:

When I showed Hunters it was not uncommon for A riders to use a B or even Regional show as a warm-up for the higher-rated show the following week.

[specifiedcupcake]

Why I took my rated-show horse to non-rated schooling shows? Cheap mileage - she’s better when she travels more, less spooky and less distracted when it’s “routine” to go someplace and do a job. She had a problem spooking at fillers so the more different ones she’d see the better she would go the next time I had the funds to drop on the AA experience.

I get where you’re coming from with being sick of being in the thick of it, the best way is to take some time off an re-evaluate what you want from the sport. I took a couple years off showing due to personal reasons and it’s the best thing I ever did. I realized I was making it un-fun for myself and pushing too hard… when in reality I’m never going to be a sponsored pro and I’m actually gonna be okay not hanging my entire sense of self on “being an equstrian”. I took up other sports and did some travelling and distanced myself from that world and I’m a much happier person now.

You also need to look at your own motivations. Is this just that you’re tired of being beat by these people? Why does it bother you so much, and does their success detract from anything you’ve accomplished?

[cannoli2425]

How do you make sure somebody is not competing in a class that is too novice for them?

[RugBug]

@jumperqwert

Why don’t they just do a schooling class or warmup???
Plus why would they need to work on their form or pacing when they are literally winning most of their classes at rated shows?
If you can afford rated shows , why do you need to go to a county show? Like don’t they want to challenge themselves ?
Calling out to all of the trainers kids and people with money who like to enter every class they can with 100 horses in one show

I get that your frustrated, but instead of seeing it as them taking your ribbons, which is a bit entitled and spoiled sounding, why don’t you see it as a challenge to ride better?

I show local shows and I prefer when the competition is coming from rated shows. It let’s me know that the ribbons I win are deserved…not just because I was the best of the worst, but because I rode well against good competition.

People do the shows they do for a variety of reasons that outsiders know nothing about. Green horses, issues, prep, money, and yes, sometimes because they are sandbagging. Stop focusing on them and start focusing on your riding so you can beat them. One of my favorite ribbons is when I got a second in an Eq flat class on my old appy mare against the rated kids on their fancy TBs (it was a long time ago. :D). That would be just another ribbon if it wasn’t against stiff competition.

[poltroon]

I grew up in LA with a strong county show circuit. The county shows were fun and competitive, and as I became more accomplished, I made goals like winning the year-end championships and the county medal finals. Some of the shows were held at my home barn and others were local and relatively accessible and affordable.

I did also show AHSA C rated shows when they came to my barn or were convenient, and I was able to go to a very few extended A shows during the summer. At those shows I was eventually competing in the 3’6" hunter and eq classes.

I won some ribbons at the A shows, but the county circuit was really my “home” for showing. (At that time the county classes in my age break would have been 3-3’3"). The A shows were my stretch - and if it makes you feel better, I braided my fingers off to pay the expenses. There were other riders like me who slid back and forth.

Yes, I wanted the blue ribbons! Yes! I wanted to show I had worth and value as a rider! To be consistent against the other county competition was a significant challenge and I was thrilled with everything I managed to win. It was expensive and it was a lot of work and I loved every single minute of it, even the days that didn’t go so well. Giving it up when it was time to go to college was hard. But I found new challenges there.

Having a competitive local circuit is IMHO an incredible blessing. The ability to have good classes and good competition for less than $2k a weekend is pretty great. Those other riders have whatever reason they have for it being fun and interesting to come out for them and it’s really nothing to do with you.

If you’re not having fun, that doesn’t make you a bad or unworthy person, but it’s your problem to solve and not one that will be solved by changing other people. It is frustrating when you feel like your efforts aren’t rewarded in some way - whether on that day it’s the feeling of a great round, great friends, a ‘good job’ from your coach, whatever. You need a way to measure and find success for yourself.

So: analyze why you’re not getting the ribbons you want. Is there more you can do to improve your riding? Are you on a horse that is outclassed? Or maybe this isn’t the right goal for you now. Maybe instead of showing you should put the money towards a fabulous riding vacation, or maybe you should consider playing in a different discipline for a while. It depends on your interests and resources.

[MzCarol]

This is a bit different but along the same lines. This is the first year for my horse and I to be showing/jumping. I’m an older rider and there has been a lot of psychological issues with me (leaving the ground, for one LOL). I know we’re doing it all wrong - green jumper with green jumping horse, but she’s my personal horse and I have raised her so we are already a team working with a wonderful trainer who has brought us both along wonderfully. We’ve only been in 3 shows together - and done quite well, but come fall we will be going through the entire 2019-2020 season (1 show a month from Sept to June the following year).

Our first 3 shows together were most probably laughable to anyone else - puddle jumpers I call them - cross rails at lower than 1’. I was still working on my head/fear issues. I’m certain people looked at me funny/oddly/with disdain because this adult was in what is essentially a child’s class. We were in that “child’s class” because, at that time, it was the absolute right place for us to be. Ayah needed the exposure to the atmosphere and to gain confidence. We chose to keep things very elementary for her so all she really had to do was learn about and deal with the noises and commotion. For me it was so much more. I have a very rough time being the center of attention and when it’s my turn to jump that’s what it’s all about - me in the spotlight for that moment in time. I deal with anxiety - and horse showing is ‘the’ worst sport for people like me lol I had to do a lot of work to get out of my head and deal with letting all that garbage go.

So…it may appear that we were definitely in the wrong class, but what you wouldn’t have known had you seen us that we were in the absolutely perfect class for us at that time. We needed to be in that class rather than adding more pressure to either of us.

No, we won’t stay there. Things are going so well that by the time the series starts in September we’ll be up to 2’ and in a different division. We were jumping higher than the puddles but the puddles were what was needed to keep Ayah confident and secure.

So…yeah…there are many reasons people are in the class or division they are in. Unfortunately you’ll never know all that information and they aren’t obliged to give it to you. I do agree, however, that occasionally there are those teams that ride in a class beneath them for the ribbons but I let that go because it’s about what my horse and I are accomplishing together that matters - pshaw on the ribbons. If I come out of that ring smiling then that’s a perfect day.

Now, what drives ‘me’ crazy is that I’m working with my own horse that I have raised/trained myself to the point of jumping where I added a trainer. It’s tough to go into flat classes or even jumping classes with children on schoolmaster horses who could do these things blindfolded. The kids aren’t actually doing anything beyond directing the horse with a pull of the rein. And then here I am giving my horse cues - making sure my seat is correct, my balance, that I’m setting her up correctly, etc. I’m ‘working’ in those classes and these kids are just plodding along as passengers. Those classes are rough for me. But then again…our last who we came away with 2 seconds, 2 thirds and 1 fifth. For our third show ever that’s pretty impressive to me and shows that our work is paying off and a judge could see that

[Scribbler]

I honestly have never seen a child that can’t really ride, win a class on a schoolmaster against a competent rider on a horse that is behaving. And around here, the lower jumpers tend to get won by daredevil kids on handy ponies that can cut corners. Those kids can ride!

[trubandloki]

So, it not OK for them to want blue ribbons but it is OK for you to want them? That is how I read it.

I always look at showing this way - did I meet my goals? Not - did I win the ribbon lottery?

Go to the shows and do your best, meet your goals and then raise your goals and meet those.

[RugBug]

@trubandloki

So, it not OK for them to want blue ribbons but it is OK for you to want them? That is how I read it.

I always look at showing this way - did I meet my goals? Not - did I win the ribbon lottery?

Go to the shows and do your best, meet your goals and then raise your goals and meet those.

If people are truly sandbagging, then I would say it’s not ok. It’s poor sportsmanship. But I also believe that few people are truly sandbagging. And if the association doesn’t have rules restricting divisions, well, it’s their fault that riders can sandbag in the first place.

[PonyPenny]

For some people the county shows are way cheaper and are at the some of the same venues as the rated shows especially is San Diego. Shows are expensive.

[gottagrey]

Are you sure they are showing 3’ at A shows? There could be any number of reasons. This happens a lot in my area and it’s basically that the barns want to support the local show circuits as well as the A shows. A few weeks ago I went to a local show association show - most the barns there regularly attend A shows, not sure how many horse/rider combinations show rated but they were there to support the local circuit. Without them, you might have few entries and shows can’t afford to continue without good turnouts. And let’s face it, people spend a lot of money showing at rated shows, it helps them to be able to school at a place where its more cost effective. Sure it might cost those who don’t show rated a ribbon, but I’ve been to plenty of these schooling shows where the solid school horses truck their riders around and the “A” horses are being knuckleheads.

[Wanderosa]

Hunters is a bad place to be if

[Wanderosa]

@Scribbler

I honestly have never seen a child that can’t really ride, win a class on a schoolmaster against a competent rider on a horse that is behaving. And around here, the lower jumpers tend to get won by daredevil kids on handy ponies that can cut corners. Those kids can ride!

Come watch a hunter show, then. I joke that I could jump on the average short stirrup pony and ride the 15 tempi changes for the GP Dressage test with no issues.

[2DogsFarm]

@cannoli2425

How do you make sure somebody is not competing in a class that is too novice for them?

IME, you can’t.
Unless you have personally competed on the same rated (or not) circuit & have seen the rider/horse in question take the blues.
OTOH, there are those doing rated who have not yet cracked the Ribbon Ceiling. At any level series.
We used to refer to them as Perpetual Green :rolleyes: