Court date for Michael Barisone?

[Angela_Freda]

@KellyS

you’re ready to let Barisone be the victim and everyone else take the blame based on a one-sided story. A story that leaves out the context for many of the accusations and purported “facts” in order to manipulate the reader’s conclusions. It’s obviously worked quite well.

Bottom line, there’s only one person in this case that shot someone else, and I have yet to see any reason to justify it, although many people seem to be doing so

I’m not sure who is releasing anyone from blame or justifying shooting.
I think the idea is that while he was wrong in his actions, others were as well.
He can be guilty of shooting LK, while the other people are or were also “wrong”, to some degree wrt their action or inaction.

Eta, if the actions/inactions of this PD weren’t problematic in these interactions, that will certainly come out in the wash during the settling of this filing, right?
So, if the PD actions were " fine", this is their chance to show that.

[trubandloki]

@KellyS

In addition, so many of these comments show how ignorant you (group) are about what can and cannot be legally done. You are not privy to the actual facts of the case, but you’re ready to let Barisone be the victim and everyone else take the blame based on a one-sided story.

Darn it, it appears us forgetting the standard disclaimer on a few posts once again means that we think it is OK to shoot someone.
Sigh.
It is never OK to shoot someone.

[SillyHorse]

@KellyS

I know it’s cool for liberals/progressives to assume all police are bad guys right now…

That’s a ridiculous thing to say. There’s nothing “cool” about acknowledging bad policing when it happens. And other than a few people, actually one person on this board, no one I know assumes that all police are bad guys. And for the one person on this board, her opinion comes via terrible experience, not a desire to be cool.

[Sdel]

Your response makes no sense whatsoever. You rant about not judging and LEO not having any biases. Did I misread the whole crux of the BLM/critical race theory as that LEO and the legal system are full of inherent bias?? Are there not heaps of sociologic evidence that biases are kind of built in? And then you point me towards a book that has the basic premise that all white people are scum because they are biased in a certain way?

So, yeah, seems like the police (everyone) has their biases like I said. And I’m in no way a liberal/progressive, nor do I hate the police; but I certainly wouldn’t ever trust them if I was even peripherally attached to a crime.

[FitzE]

@KellyS

I know it’s cool for liberals/progressives to assume all police are bad guys right now, but do you realize what hypocrites that makes us in doing so?

I guess it’s cool to tell people not to generalize about a group of people by…generalizing about a group of people. Both self-awareness and internal consistency dialed down to 0, I’m afraid.

[Scribbler]

I’ve said this on the other MB thread in a Dressage.

The police are in general not effective at intervening and resolving ongoing interpersonal disputes between neighbors, landlord/ tenants, room mates, etc. A lot of effort has been put into improving response to. domestic disputes over the past several decades but even there they get it wrong sometimes, and women or children get killed.

From the police perspective, in this case you are getting increasingly urgent competing calls to 911 and other agencies, claiming mysterioys SUVs, child neglect, online harassment, both parties fear for their lives, threats of guns, etc.

The police are effective at intervening in real crime, like stolen cars, bar brawls, bank robbery, etc where there is an obvious crime committed.

They just don’t have the training or indeed the resources or legal power to do much about interpersonal disputes where both parties are calling 911 constantly, other than hope their presence makes the parties simmer down a bit.

The route you would need to go in this situation is to get a restraining order and eviction order from a judge. Once you have these, the police will enforce them.

If the police turn up and find no weapons or crime or violence in progress, they can’t do anything. After a few calls like that, they may start to feel the parties involved are nuisance complaints. They just don’t have the tools or powers to intervene and give everyone a time out.

And rightly so. The police are not the ones to decide the terms of the tenancy or what was said on FB, on the spot.

[Sdel]

@Angela_Freda

I’m not sure who is releasing anyone from blame or justifying shooting.
I think the idea is that while he was wrong in his actions, others were as well.
He can be guilty of shooting LK, while the other people are or were also “wrong”, to some degree wrt their action or inaction.

I also think that many of us are/were hoping that it really is a case of self defense because LK’s behavior has been so outrageous. She’s threatened multiple people on this board for just posting on the topic. Prosecutions are not always willing to accept self-defense claims, and NJ’s laws are not favorable for self defense either.

[Angela_Freda]

Maybe not “hoping” but certainly consider it another of the myriad possibilities.
No conclusions yet… Lots of possible, plausible scenarios with varying degrees of “blame” for all.

Which never excuses someone being shot.*

[PDDT]

Is that within the jurisdiction of law enforcement? If there was a crime they could make arrests, but until then I don’t think they can arrest someone because they are having a messy disagreement.

I do understand that their investigation procedures appeared flawed, and there are questions about illegal recordings.

[Sdel]

@PDDT

f there was a crime they could make arrests, but until then I don’t think they can arrest someone because they are having a messy disagreement.

Disturbing the public. And they do it all the time with warring spouses here. Happened to my DH and his ex.

[Angela_Freda]

Seems to me plenty of times during a dispute, say between spouses, one is told to go stay with family, friends or a hotel.
Certainly not enforceable, but suggested, encouraged even.
I wonder if it ever was here

[Scribbler]

@PDDT

The illegal recordings by LK, right?

I don’t think you get arrested on the spot for stuff like that. The only people I have ever heard of charged for illegal recordings were creepy restaurant owners that had cameras in the stalls of the women’s washrooms.

As far as disturbing the public, on an isolated upscale farm not so much.

If there was bias, both complainants were well off, well-presenting, white people, both with a strong sense of their legal entitlements. And they don’t seem to have been abusing substances visibly during this, or actually engaging in physical violence until the very end.

So it is possible the police assumed that it would sort itself out without anyone getting shot. And that the parties involved had the resources to get lawyers and eviction notices etc.

[SillyHorse]

@Scribbler

The police are in general not effective at intervening and resolving ongoing interpersonal disputes between neighbors, landlord/ tenants, room mates, etc. A lot of effort has been put into improving response to. domestic disputes over the past several decades but even there they get it wrong sometimes, and women or children get killed.

I agree completely. This is the reason for the “defund the police” movement. It is an extremely poor choice of terms, which way too may people interpreted as a call to disband the police. What the police and the public need is well-trained specialists, whether employed by police or otherwise, available to diffuse these situations.

[Scribbler]

Where I live the city police spend a great % of their time dealing with overdoses and people with mental health issues living on the streets. When the mental health institutions were downsized in the 1980s there was not nearly enough resources put into community supports. But I’m not sure the phrase Defund the Police quite gets the message across.

However the city police can still handcuff an erratic street person and take him or her to the emergency ward. I can’t see them doing that in an unclear tenancy dispute between two upper middle class white people on a large private upscale property where no violence or weapons have happened yet.

[Sdel]

[quote=“Scribbler, post:485, topic:761824”] I can’t see them doing that in an unclear tenancy dispute between two upper middle class white people on a large private upscale property where no violence or weapons have happened yet.
[/quote]

But this isn’t the case. You are ignoring the fact that there were other people outside of MB there and witnessing the situation. You are ignoring that at least one person on that farm felt the need to sleep in front of a stall to protect a horse. And you are ignoring that fact that there was a gun present in this situation long before there was a shooting. The person sleeping in front of the stall was sleeping with it under their pillow. It didn’t just magically show up out of thin air on the day of the shooting……it was present for some time before.

[Scribbler]

True. But if the gun was hidden or not in evidence during the police attendance, if it wasn’t being waved around, I’m not sure what the police could or would do.

Also it was MB claiming LK had a gun and he feared for his life. The only gun identified so far was the one MB himself had access to.

My ongoing point is that the police don’t usually have the skills or resources to sort out disputes between acquaintances. If they’ve had a week of competing 911 calls with both sides making escalating accusations but no actual sign of violence, especially when it’s a dispute between relatively privileged white people, they may be just hoping the parties involved sort things out with their own lawyers.

In this case it turned out to be the wrong call. Shortly after the building inspectors arrive, condemn the house, but refuse to evict on the spot, then leave, the shooting happens. My guess is no one including the parties involved expected it to escalate so fast.

People involved in these kinds of disputes typically make all kinds of claims and complaints to the police, some of which are based on truth and some of which are exaggerated or invented. I think after a point police do write these situations off as nuisance calls.

[3PonyFarm]

I agree that many police responding to these type of calls do not always have the training or resources to best handle these situations.

I do believe that if he did in fact go to the station and ask to speak to a supervisor that he should have been allowed to. That person might have been able to advise him better of what his next steps should be as well as work with the responding officers if additional training was needed.

[Dee-Vee]

If you get into storage, make sure that you carry the proper insurance, just in case there is a tornado or snow storm or something. Sometimes buildings come down.

[MHM]

@Scribbler

Also it was MB claiming LK had a gun and he feared for his life.

Wasn’t LK making claims on her social media posts at the time about having a gun or being armed or something like that?

Not that the police would probably go over her Facebook page with a fine tooth comb. But if she was making those statements, he may have thought he had a legit reason to be concerned.

[Scribbler]

@3PonyFarm

This is true. However this is the part of the filing that’s rather subjective. If MB really was at the edge of a psychotic break as this document argues there might be a policy of defusing and deflecting such requests assuming the complainant can come back another day to submit a complaint in a more orderly way. I don’t honestly know how you request communication with a supervisor in a police station. It’s not like a restaurant where the manager is onsite and right there all the time. I expect you need to make an appointment.