Cow dying in a local pasture. No one is doing....UPDATE on #260

[BeckyS]

I better post my credentials so everyone knows I know cows. Raised on a dairy farm, helped many cows give birth, continue to help on farm every weekend (in between a real job and my own family).

As much as I like to stay on the side of the farmer, I really don’t think he did all that he could have done for the cow (if our story is exactly as the OP stated).

The calf should not have been pulled by a tractor, but rather, by manpower. The cow should have had the opportunity to lick off the dead calf. The cow should have received calcium, and should have been hip-lifted if she didn’t stand. From there, time is really the only cure, but the cow should have had constant access to feed at least, with bringing out buckets of water several times throughout the day. Oh, and a few shots of Super B Complex, because vitamin B cures everything!

I agree, time is the only real cure for calving paralysis. This cow certainly wasn’t cared for in a way that we’d care for our cows.

[roseymare]

Honest question. What about a feedlot most bothers you?

[RodeoFTW]

[QUOTE=roseymare;8667199]
Honest question. What about a feedlot most bothers you?[/QUOTE]

Everything. Literally everything.

[Red_Barn]

I’m with you, Rodeo, but, for those unfamiliar with the anti-CAFO arguments, here’s a useful and user-friendly site:

http://politicsoftheplate.com/?p=1112

Our opponents will hate it, I know, but I think it covers all the main points of the debate. Would you agree?

[dotneko]

[QUOTE=enjoytheride;8667108]
I find it amusing that some of the posters who are accusing the OP of stalking and having nothing better to do apparently have nothing better to do than repeatedly post that the OP is stalking and has nothing better to do![/QUOTE]

Not so surprising. My settings email me when a reply is made on a post I have responded to. Plus, I wanted to know what happened to the cow.
Not remotely interested in the factory farming discussion, so I am skipping those posts.

[sportponies4U]

I hate to hear about this - ANOTHER cow needing help. I live across the street from a HUGE 6000 acre Dairy Farm and I can’t tell you the number of times I’ve witnessed Diary cows giving birth NEEDING some assitence and workers driving tractors all over the place ,YET no one seems to see them down and in distress. I can tell you without dispute that cows trying to deliver difficult presentations SCREAM in agony. My dogs even can recognize the sound and come to tell me. My barn is 700 feet from the Diaries Property line. Or, when a calf has rolled under the barbwire fence and can’t get back safely to it’s mother. Last week, I found a calf in the wooded section of the fence line too weak to even stand probably been there for at least a few days This was about the 13 time since moving here in 2010. The owner is one of the richest men in all three surrounding Counties were he owns other Dairy Farms. I have personally spoken to him about these issues and he says that they try to do the best they can and expect to lose a few. Next time it happens don’t bother him alert his Farm Manager!!! You would think that he would care about the animals under his control thta have provided him the infinite wealth he enjoys! I hate living here because the flies are a serious pest and my horses suffer continuesly regardless of what protective measures I try to take. I don’ t think this property will ever be saleable as an Equestrian Property due to the stentch, noise and pests. Don’t even get me started when the Diary Farm decides to barn huge sections of the pastures at the same time a when the wind is blowing in my direction, I have several horses so severly affected that I may have to put them down to to the bi-yearly smoke inhaltion damage or use steroids. I have no where else to contain them away from this situation other that to relocate them several miles away since the smoke LINGERS FOR DAYS. FORGET THE FORESTRY DEPARTMENT - Dairy owner has them in his pocket… All this has happened recently and somedays I feel I just can’t go on anymore especailly since having some real personal financial challenges facing divorce with no means of continuing support for my 33 horses.

[RodeoFTW]

[QUOTE=Red Barn;8667227]
I’m with you, Rodeo, but, for those unfamiliar with the anti-CAFO arguments, here’s a useful and user-friendly site:

http://politicsoftheplate.com/?p=1112

Our opponents will hate it, I know, but I think it covers all the main points of the debate. Would you agree?[/QUOTE]

Basically.

I’ve always bought the grass-fed stuff whenever available. Or meat similar to Whole Foods Five Step program.

[roseymare]

I will not understand how or why no science is allowed in agriculture by some of agriculture’s detractors. Why some feel that agriculture must still be as it was at the turn of the century baffles me. We do not expect this of any other business. And why biosecurity is seen as a way to hide abuse is also something I do not understand. The more we try to keep the food supply safe the more detractors claim something is being hidden.

As for the link, although he does have some great farms profiled, Mr. Estabook does not write with balance, it is clear from at least his blog that he is anti any modern agriculture concepts.
In the latest radio interview I heard with him he took scientific studies out of context. I have not read his latest book to know if it was intentional on his part or simply a factor of the interview process. The book seems to have solid reviews so I may read it as it may have less bias than the interview lead me to believe. I will be interested to see how he portrays the porcine mrsa studies in his book as he left out an integral part of the studies findings in the radio interview. I heard him on the Splendid Table last week. The porcine mrsa studies are easy to find as well.

The other thing that many are doing is trying to pit conventional agriculture against their idea of organic or sustainable agriculture. Some farmers on both “sides” will take the bait. We cannot do this. There is a place for all forms of agriculture. If you want to buy from the local small farmer go for it.

[Alagirl]

[QUOTE=roseymare;8667271]
I will not understand how or why no science is allowed in agriculture by some of agriculture’s detractors. Why some feel that agriculture must still be as it was at the turn of the century baffles me. We do not expect this of any other business. And why biosecurity is seen as a way to hide abuse is also something I do not understand. The more we try to keep the food supply safe the more detractors claim something is being hidden.

As for the link, although he does have some great farms profiled, Mr. Estabook does not write with balance, it is clear from at least his blog that he is anti any modern agriculture concepts.
In the latest radio interview I heard with him he took scientific studies out of context. I have not read his latest book to know if it was intentional on his part or simply a factor of the interview process. The book seems to have solid reviews so I may read it as it may have less bias than the interview lead me to believe. I will be interested to see how he portrays the porcine mrsa studies in his book as he left out an integral part of the studies findings in the radio interview. I heard him on the Splendid Table last week. The porcine mrsa studies are easy to find as well.

The other thing that many are doing is trying to pit conventional agriculture against their idea of organic or sustainable agriculture. Some farmers on both “sides” will take the bait. We cannot do this. There is a place for all forms of agriculture. If you want to buy from the local small farmer go for it.[/QUOTE]

You win the Internet today!

[Red_Barn]

[QUOTE=roseymare;8667271]

. . . The other thing that many are doing is trying to pit conventional agriculture against their idea of organic or sustainable agriculture. Some farmers on both “sides” will take the bait. We cannot do this. There is a place for all forms of agriculture. If you want to buy from the local small farmer go for it.[/QUOTE]
Frankly, I don’t think it’s a question of “trying” to do anything.

For many, myself included, the problems inherent in the CAFO/industrial/multinational corporate model really are antithetical to the sustainable, local and self-determined model, from the environmental to the economic to the bioethical to the political levels. I honestly can’t imagine how one could accept the principles of the latter and somehow find room for the former, simply because they’re based on such completely different sets of assumptions and ethical precepts.

Also, I don’t see anything anti-modern in the scientifically researched models of sustainable production - quite the opposite, in fact.

There’s no law that says innovative technologies must somehow be confined to the transnational corporate arena. In fact, if you look, I think you’ll find that many of the most innovative technologies currently being developed are geared to the small, local, environmentally responsible farm - not to the over-sized, outmoded transnational behemoth. (The reasons for this shift are legion, but diseases like porcine MRSA are certainly among them.)

[RodeoFTW]

[QUOTE=roseymare;8667271]

The other thing that many are doing is trying to pit conventional agriculture against their idea of organic or sustainable agriculture. Some farmers on both “sides” will take the bait. We cannot do this. There is a place for all forms of agriculture. If you want to buy from the local small farmer go for it.[/QUOTE]

Commercial agriculture as it stands right now will always be attacked because it is literally killing our planet. It will not last, it destroys our resources, and it only works at the exploitation of certain economic groups. A lot of people are just not interested in financially funding that and no amount of defensiveness is going to change that.

[Red_Barn]

[QUOTE=RodeoFTW;8667313]
Commercial agriculture as it stands right now will always be attacked because it is literally killing our planet. It will not last, it destroys our resources, and it only works at the exploitation of certain economic groups. A lot of people are just not interested in financially funding that and no amount of defensiveness is going to change that.[/QUOTE]
This is so true.

And they all go together - from the suffering of animals to the exploitation of labor to the degradation of the environment to the corporate manipulation of government.

You can’t sort of accept all that and then go out and buy the occasional cage-free egg to make yourself feel all warm and fuzzy inside. It just doesn’t work that way.

[roseymare]

[QUOTE=RodeoFTW;8667313]
Commercial agriculture as it stands right now will always be attacked because it is literally killing our planet. It will not last, it destroys our resources, and it only works at the exploitation of certain economic groups. A lot of people are just not interested in financially funding that and no amount of defensiveness is going to change that.[/QUOTE]

I don’t believe that to be the case. The amount of damage that outside hogs will cause the environment is staggering. The large Indiana dairy that Estabook profiles in the above blog pumps manure directly into a methane digester. The same cannot be said for my cow calf herd. The manure does drain into at least two creeks eventually as that is the truth of pasture raised cattle.

[wireweiners]

[QUOTE=RodeoFTW;8667219]
Everything. Literally everything.[/QUOTE]

That’s not an answer.

[Red_Barn]

[QUOTE=roseymare;8667330]
I don’t believe that to be the case. The amount of damage that outside hogs will cause the environment is staggering. The large Indiana dairy that Estabook profiles in the above blog pumps manure directly into a methane digester. The same cannot be said for my cow calf herd. The manure does drain into at least two creeks eventually as that is the truth of pasture raised cattle.[/QUOTE]
This is “the truth of pasture raised cattle” in excessive numbers.

That’s the whole point.

Truly sustainable operations are integrated systems of animals and plants that efficiently utilize animal manures as assets rather waste. That’s what the word “sustainable” means.

[moving_to_dc]

[QUOTE=Red Barn;8667361]
This is “the truth of pasture raised cattle” in excessive numbers.

That’s the whole point.

Truly sustainable operations are integrated systems of animals and plants that efficiently utilize animal manures as assets rather waste. That’s what the word “sustainable” means.[/QUOTE]

This countries meat consumption needs cannot be met by pasture raised cattle (or other livestock - pork/poultry). It is not logistically, physically or economically possible.

[Alagirl]

[QUOTE=moving to dc;8667393]
This countries meat consumption needs cannot be met by pasture raised cattle (or other livestock - pork/poultry). It is not logistically, physically or economically possible.[/QUOTE]

(shh! No facts!)

[Red_Barn]

[QUOTE=Alagirl;8667395]
(shh! No facts!)[/QUOTE]

Not only is DC’s remark not a “fact”, it’s not even a coherent statement.

What does “meat consumption need” mean? What does “logistically” or “physically” or “economically” mean in actual concrete terms?

At this point, American markets for artificially cheap, corn-stuffed, mass-produced meat are so skewed by government subsidies and corporate manipulation that any statement of what’s “possible” is essentially nonsense.

Of course, this is exactly the kind of fluffy, content-free sound bite that’s endlessly repeated by the various Beef Councils and Cattlemen’s associations - everybody knows that. But a “fact”?

Hardly.

[moving_to_dc]

[QUOTE=Red Barn;8667418]
Not only is DC’s remark not a “fact”, it’s not even a coherent statement.

What does “meat consumption need” mean? What does “logistically” or “physically” or “economically” mean in actual concrete terms?

At this point, American markets for artificially cheap, corn-stuffed, mass-produced meat are so skewed by government subsidies and corporate manipulation that any statement of what’s “possible” is essentially nonsense.

Of course, this is exactly the kind of fluffy, content-free sound bite that’s endlessly repeated by the various Beef Councils and Cattlemen’s associations - everybody knows that. But a “fact”?

Hardly.[/QUOTE]

Totally a fact.

If you TRULY are agriculture knowledgeable and/or educated and/or experienced, you would know it is a fact.

But you are proving to be just as much of a sheeple as the others.

Tell me again? Where did you go to college? What was your major? How many generations of your family have been farming/ranching as a SOLE source of income. (Growing a garden in the backyard and living next to a field with cattle do not qualify as “experienced”.)

[Red_Barn]

@moving to dc;8667441

Totally a fact.

Repeating rubbish doesn’t make it true.

Or perhaps you’d care to explain how economically inevitable CAFOs would be without government corn subsidies? Or how much it would actually cost to clean up after the US factory pig farms NAFTA shipped to Mexico? Or what might happen if, for once, the FDA wasn’t headed by somebody on holiday from Monsanto?

Your “facts” presuppose the existence of all the artificial market conditions corporate cronyism and government handouts have created . . . or might that be the real reason you’re “moving to dc”?

:lol: