Cow Horse Folks - Evaluating a Video of a Using Horse / Turn Back Horse

[ytr45]

Hi Guys,

This is the sale video of a little turn back horse I bought. I’m not a western rider, I bought him for his great personality - safe and sane.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C4rEg0IPGx8&list=PLFPsol0oaxJXwvV2Dqbl72diBJwSTBXD2&index=1

I was just curious about his cow work in the video. Is what he’s doing hard? Is he good at it? It doesn’t look that hard, but I know nothing about it. I know that the cutting people says its hard to find a good using horse, and usually they don’t sell them.

I’d like to understand and appreciate his old career.
Observations?
thanks.

[Cuttergal]

He looked like a horse to me. You can tell he’s a little lazy and slow, looks like he’d be a safe mount though. Most turnback horses tend to be cutter rejects and tend to read cows a little more. This horse was not too into it, LOL.

[Bluey]

That horse should be in a snaffle for that, he doesn’t guide well enough with that bit, is not that far along for that.

There he never looks at the cow, is working off the rider’s requests, which is fine, but not “cowhorse” worthy.

Nice horse with more training for so much, just not cowhorse material with what he shows there.
That doesn’t matter, not every horse will be a sure enough cowhorse, but you can train any of them to help with whatever you want to do.

I have a cow-horse bred gelding just like that, he missed the “cow” part.
He had months of good cutting training, before they gave up on him ever being much of a cutter.
He is a wonderful ranch horse and sweet to live with.

A good disposition is worth so much for many of us, nice to have that.

[Aces_N_Eights]

He isn’t showing any interest in a cow and more worried about the rider than anything. Looks like he’s been pulled on quite a bit.

[ytr45]

Ok, so this is good… I thought that maybe I was taking him away from a job/career that he loved and was good at. If thats not the case, maybe he’ll enjoy being an english horse better, doing trail riding and a little jumping and dressage.

So, he wasn’t a great using horse / turn back horse? or just not a good cow horse?

[Bluey]

[QUOTE=ytr45;8813798]
Ok, so this is good… I thought that maybe I was taking him away from a job/career that he loved and was good at. If thats not the case, maybe he’ll enjoy being an english horse better, doing trail riding and a little jumping and dressage.

So, he wasn’t a great using horse / turn back horse? or just not a good cow horse?[/QUOTE]

A good using horse, a horse with ranch horse skills, doesn’t has to have cow in him, just learn how to handle cattle out in the pasture and a rope, etc.

If a horse has much cow, that makes is nicer, because he can also be sharper working cattle, you also get to cut when sorting, which a cow horse will shine in, while others you have to help, as the fellow is trying there.

A turnback horse also can have cow or not, if not, you have to work harder and not go sleep on the job.

My horse was also used for turnback horse, had more of a handle than the horse there, but it still needs help on cattle.
He will try to play with them, but is by far just not one of the talents he has.

A horse that has cow, you feel them move under you very differently than one that needs to be helped along.

There are some excellent cow-horses, top cutting horses, that are just too flighty to make good ranch horses, they just don’t settle, they are wired too tight, hot, working against themselves and unnerving cattle when worked outside.

Comparing a really cowy horse with a ranch horse is comparing apples and bananas, either one can be good at being a ranch horse if trained well, a real cow-horse has to have cow in it, a real ranch horse may or not have cow, but has to be very sensible so as to learn ranch horse skills properly, if it has cow or not.

Hope that all didn’t confuse further.

[Cuttergal]

You could push some cows around with him on the ranch. I agree his handle isn’t great, but I see a lot of turnback riders riding constantly like that.

[beau159]

He doesn’t look real cowy to me.

Looks like a nice-mannered horse as he’s trying to do what the rider is asking and trying to please. I agree that that bit is not really working for him, the way the rider is trying to direct rein him.

[kelo]

What you’re seeing is a common method of cow work. You put the group of cattle in the middle of the roundpen (often with some feed to keep them there). Cut one out and practice working the cow.

This horse isn’t doing a particularly good job. He’s not locked on to the cow at all, not even attempting to put himself in position or anticipate the cow. He is responding soley to the rider, who is just pulling him around (and in a curb, should be in a snaffle). The horse is also not putting any particular effort into going or stopping.

He is not a cow horse, but he really looks like a sweet and willing guy. I bet he will be very happy as an English and trail horse.

[Bluey]

[QUOTE=kelo;8814881]
What you’re seeing is a common method of cow work. You put the group of cattle in the middle of the roundpen (often with some feed to keep them there). Cut one out and practice working the cow.

This horse isn’t doing a particularly good job. He’s not locked on to the cow at all, not even attempting to put himself in position or anticipate the cow. He is responding soley to the rider, who is just pulling him around (and in a curb, should be in a snaffle). The horse is also not putting any particular effort into going or stopping.

He is not a cow horse, but he really looks like a sweet and willing guy. I bet he will be very happy as an English and trail horse.[/QUOTE]

That is a method Buster Welch first promoted, but also warned you needed a bigger space for it to work properly, or the cow pushed out would not really have room to move out and would crowd the horse back into the herd while the horse was trying to get some distance so he could have a little more room to move, not being so on top of the cow.

That there seems just a little too small a space for that, could be one reason the horse is just not able to think like a real cowhorse would and start to see his opportunity to dominate the cow.

You have to set the situation right, to give a horse a real shot at trying to work.
Then, any horse with any cow would have tried in the places where he had a fair shot at it, if he had any cow in him.

He really seemed clueless there and being a bit backed off by that situation and that bit didn’t help, as someone said, he was more aware of the rider and it’s demands than looking at that one or any other cow that closely.

He seems light on his feet and with a little work from a professional and in a snaffle or bosal he may really come around to moving better, not so bracey.

He sure seem to be taking it all without getting worried or annoyed, he kept trying and that is wonderful trait in any horse.

[ytr45]

thanks Bluey!

[pAin_t_Misbehavin]

Pardon a question from the cow-clueless, but can someone please explain what a turnback horse is?

[Bluey]

[QUOTE=pAin’t_Misbehavin’;8849873]
Pardon a question from the cow-clueless, but can someone please explain what a turnback horse is?[/QUOTE]

When people are competing in cutting in an arena, the cattle are held in one spot, generally against the fence in one short end.

Those cattle, when you cut one out, would run wildly way out there, then run as fast as they can back and over the top of the horse that just cut them out.

So, there are generally three riders there to keep the cut cow from running too far up the arena, they “turn back” the cut cow so it then has to face the horse cutting, that will get down to work on trying to keep it from running back to the herd.

You generally ask friends to turn back for you and you turn back for your friends, so everyone is on the same page, know your horse and if to push the cut critter into you more or less, when to keep it from pushing your horse more than it can handle, like youngsters may need more room, a bit of help on the ends turning the cow back, but not do so much they are working the cow, let the one cutting be the one controlling the cow, etc.

That the cow is contained to that smaller space by the cutting horse on one side, the turn back horses on the other, is what sets the cutting horse to showcase how well it can cut.
If not for that, the cow would run around wild and the cutting horse would have to chase it more than work at just the pretty cutting dance it is going to be scored on.

In real ranch cutting, you do cut and push your cow out to the cuts, the herd holders make an opening and someone is keeping the cuts back out there.

There you cut without all the fancy work you can get in an arena, in real life you want to move cattle as smoothly as you can, without any extra stress, but that is where arena cutting comes from.

[pAin_t_Misbehavin]

Thanks Bluey!