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Coyote topic again but worse...

Around The Farm
#1

Well I never thought it was something that would happen, but the Veterinarians concur that my horse and another were attacked by Coyotes. I know this has been discussed here multiple times, and some people think they may attack horses, and some believe they won’t. However, one horse had its throat ripped open, my horse had its fetlock bitten on the inside with quite a distinct mouth print in the skin - teeth and all. The wound disintegrated the tissue rapidly in a way that the vet said only would happen with a bite. Two canine teeth caused abscesses, which when they burst, the two wounds became a perfect imprint of a mouth. You can even see the little front teeth marks.

On two occasions prior to that we thought that they had been leaning on the fence for grass and knocking it over (twice), but this time two horses escaped and mine did not, and mine had the bite and other injuries. A few days prior, the farm owner arrived to feed in the morning, and her mare had her throat torn open.

The coyotes have been VERY active at night near the farm. The neighbors have been hearing them hunting - a LOT. There are no longer the huge families of turkeys roaming everywhere in the area. They have all disappeared. No deer sightings for a long time that I have heard of, despite their always being quite plentiful in the area.

I suppose they could have been coy dogs rather than coyotes. But with some research I have discovered that the coyotes in the area I live in are often found to be up to 80% wolf when DNA samples are taken.

I have been stalked by packs on trail rides and they are VERY VERY large. The last farm I was at - 6 of us were trail riding and were surrounded on 3 sides by a pack of coyotes in broad daylight in the woods. They did make some yips like they were hunting to communicate, and they were only about 20 feet from us all around. That farm is within coyote range from the one I am currently at. There was also an incident where a little girl rode her pony to the edge of a field near the farm, and she and her pony were chased in broad daylight back to the farm where people yelled and they ran off. I’ve ridden in fields my whole life in this area, and have on numerous times had coyotes come out of the woods one at a time and line up with perfect 10 foot space between each one, and they watched me ride until I was unnerved enough to return to the barn. I see tracks all the time, and used to see deer carcasses or a random leg here and there on trails.

My horse is a HUGE TB mare, 18+ with good bone for her size and a broad frame. Seems 1350+ is a rather ridiculous target for a pack. She is a big baby though and is very naive in nature. Its been the two mares that have been attacked, rather than the crotchety gelding, which doesn’t surprise me, he is quite old but still tough as nails.

So all in all, putting things together, there have been two actual attacks, and two incidents of horses running through the fence and going quite a distance from the farm. - not at all in character for them.

Both my mare and the other will be just fine, surprisingly, but mine will take some time to grow tissue back into the large bites of missing flesh. She will be stall bound for a while.

I live in central/bordering on the west side of the Boston area suburbs, in MA, for those who are wondering. A state park and a lot of conservation land abut the farm. So much for the great footing and trail rides? perhaps we can learn mounted shooting…

My questions - has anyone used the predator lights - the solar powered boxes that shine and blink red lights to scare off predators? They have great reviews online, and a few brands have a few thousand ratings and ended up highly rated even for coyotes.

Perhaps I should contact the local wildlife officer?

Has anyone else heard of Coyotes teaching their pups and biting low on the inside of the hind legs of animals while teaching them? Or had any similar experiences in general?

The farm owner just purchased this farm and the horses are in in and out stalls at the moment, in a shed row. We are now scrambling to get the barn cleaned out so they can be inside and locked in at night, and are putting up fencing that will make it much harder for them to enter the paddock.

Any other ideas for solutions? I hear that if you shoot a few in a pack they actually adjust the number of breeding individuals and litter size! Yikes!!!

#2

Definitely call the wildlife officer. Hopefully they will be interested in trapping and eliminating whatever you have attacking your horses, or have ideas on installing some fear in them so they go back to taking out more appropriate prey.

I agree that it doesn’t sound like coyotes. Coydogs or coywolves (if you have those hybrids confirmed in your area) are more likely. Or perhaps feral dogs?

Very sorry to hear about the horses :frowning:

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#3

That is awful - those poor horses! Jingling for an easy recovery OP, that is very scary.

I live in the exact same area as you. I grew up here. Barring a few years of traveling in college, I have spent my whole life here. I haven’t heard of anything of this magnitude by coyotes, ever. I also haven’t heard of this - where and when did it happen?

FYI, I have been saying there have been eastern coyotes here since the early 2000s… I ran across an absolutely gorgeous individual in Concord back then and since then have seen even more. I remember feeling very vindicated when the state finally recognized that there were “wolf coyote hybrids” in this area.

But…

I doubt very seriously they were coyotes. Have you seen MA coyotes? They rarely top 35 lb, and are very small. They also tend to be solitary, besides breeding pairs - and don’t tend to hunt in packs. It would take an entire “pack” (usually called a band) of them to bring down a horse and that is just not how coyotes work… Their diet subsists of 70-90% small game (rodents, mustelids, birds) - though in some parts of the NE, they eat a fair amount of deer too … however, there has never been a recorded “coyote hunt” taking down deer and it is widely understood and accepted by canine biologists and experts that these coyotes are eating roadkill deer. They are primarily scavengers, and opportunistic predators - but they are very clever and do not put themselves at risk to bring down their meal - which is exactly why them killing horses is unheard of.

They regularly pass through our paddocks, and other than losing an occasional chicken, our horses have paid them absolutely no mind.

Even the eastern coyotes (which are the coyotes with wolf ancestry) are very small. Most barely tip 40lb. They are not technically wolf/coyote hybrids as they are not an F1 cross - they have wolf ancestry – so they are the product of generations upon generations of canine “mutts”. They’re “wolves” the same way a WB is a TB - some parent generations upon generations ago was a wolf, and some other parent generations ago was as well, and despite being 80% “wolf” these coyotes have no recent (as in the last 5-20 generations) full blooded wolf contribution.

These eastern coyotes are nowhere near (not even half) the size or weight of even a small subspecies of wolf (for instance, the Algonquin). I’m extremely familiar with this subspecies - it’s an area of avid interest of mine and it’s also something I see regularly out on the trails, since I live in an area where they are prolific. I have not seen one that was bigger than 50lb. My GSD dwarfed all of the ones I met or saw on the trail or property. I live between two major livestock and produce farms and while coyotes have carried off their lambs, they have never lost foals, calves, or larger livestock to them.

The method of attack is inconsistent with a coyote band; that is not their preferred method of bringing down prey. Suffocation by throat bite is usually done in larger (feline) predators; mountain lions, lions, leopards, tigers – it is not a kill tactic for wolves either. Coyotes and wolves have different hunting methods but in general when hunting large game they destabilize the hind end first by eviscerating the lower limbs to prevent escape – then once the animal is felled, they go straight for the gut and viscera. They do not bother “going for throat” and frankly, they eat the animal alive. They go for the easiest part of the lower limb to reach - which is usually the hock (in deer/elk/etc) and don’t tend to go for the “inside” of the leg as that poses way too much risk of being trampled underfoot.

I am not saying you are lying, but I think you are misinformed. The information provided points to either a pack of dogs, which is usually wildly unpredictable in their attacks, or the result of the horses running into fences, getting ensnared in wire, or being impaled by wooden posts. I have seen enough of those type of horse-inflicted injuries to know that sometimes it can look like anything but.

I agree contacting the Wildlife Officer, but I would also canvass with local farmers - they know much more about the wildlife than even the WOs do sometimes, and could tell you if there were feral dogs about. Feral dogs are not very common here, so my money is still on a paddock accident or… delinquent human.

34 Likes
#4

Yes, I would DEFINITELY be calling the DEC and alerting them, finding out about nuisance hunting/trapping. I am against killing anything in nature in general, but NOT when they stalk me, my horse, come on the property and hurt a horse or another domestic animal. I would alert everyone locally, the local barns and neighbors.

A neighbor organized a coyote hunt here in NY. I didn’t necessarily agree because they didn’t touch any of the local cows (3 farms on my road), or my horses. They got 3- 1 was a coy-wolf. I noticed I don’t hear as many- maybe they have more pups?!? But it still seems their numbers are lower.

I am surprised your vet isn’t making more of a statement or reporting anything?

Good luck! I wouldn’t want to mess with them.

#5

While coyotes will behave differently region to region, I have very rarely seen or heard of them behaving the way you describe as actively as you describe. An incident here and there is one thing, but your situation is another level to me.

I would also assume they are more the coywolf than regular coyotes. In our area this time of year they are not normally packed up, its every man for himself for winter months.

even then they would be targeting something they know they can bring down, like this years fawns. Less effort for a decent meal.

now wolves, I have seen go after horses. A good friend of ours had his dude string on an upper pasture. Pack of wolves took down an 18hh percheron gelding. He was simply the slowest compared to the other saddle horses. That would explain more on maybe why your big mare was a main target compared to others.

I do feel this is a call to fish and game because they only get bolder and hungrier as winter sets in. This is a pack that needs to be eliminated, not just relocated. Survivors teach the young. When it comes to safety of people, even more so potentially kids that could be easy targets, fish and game should get it figured out pretty quick.

For us, it was always a simple “caught with stock you get shot” kind of system. But we rarely had any stupid enough to go in the pasture lines because of that, and a very protective Akabash. Hehe. But if these are ones with some wolf ancestry a single LGD would not work, 3 or 4 of them would work if trained and equipped propperly.

I hope the herd recovers well!!

#6

Oh wow, so sorry to hear and speedy healing to your horses! I also would have never thought coyotes would attack such a large animal, but I’m hearing more and more about it, so I don’t doubt it.

I think its a great idea to bring your horses in at night, just in case, though I know coyotes (or coydogs or whatever you may have) do hunt through the day, at least it will make it a little safer and ease your mind a bit.

Can you get a donkey or llama? They are great in herds and really hate coyotes (and dogs as well, so if you have one, be careful as they will chase them out of their paddocks!). They will make a huge fuss and attack coyotes. It is common in our area to have donkies out with the horses for protection.

#7

Our farm is in western Mass, between Worcester and Springfield. We have coyotes pass frequently through our pastures. Most of them are pretty large, look to be closer in size to my 100 lbs dogs. Our horses don’t even look at them, they are so used to seeing the coyotes around. (They also don’t care about the black bears). We’ve lost barn cats to coyotes, but so far, that’s the extent of the damage.

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#8

That is 70lb past the average. Check with hunters in the area. I promise there are not 100lb coyotes ranging the foothills in that area.

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#9

Thank you to the posters above you have given such great information in such well written posts!

We see coyotes on our game camera from time to time and I have personally seen them a few times. They literally trot right by the horses. The horses do not care and the coyotes do not care.
It is not rare to hear the talk of what I assume is the coyotes at night.

I would agree with the smart people above that these attacks are not from coyotes but from a pack of dogs or something along those lines.
People are afraid of coyotes so they are quick to blame things on them.

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#10

Is the bite mark clear enough to rule out a mountain lion or other wild cat?

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#11

I used to investigate livestock damaged by other animals for the State. By far the most extensive and gruesome injuries were done by dogs. Most often they were not even feral dogs but someone’s roaming pets who were let out at night, often to “guard their home”.
Wild predators generally attack one animal and attempt to dispatch it and feed on it. Dogs have some instinct but tend to harass multiple animals and bite whatever they can reach. Even if they kill, they do not generally feed on it. They also tend to return for more “fun”. Wild predators that failed to secure a meal would likely look for easier prey if any were available.
BTW, husky types are the most common culprit, followed by GSDs and then virtually any other dogs, especially if there is a group.

Not saying coyotes and other wild predators couldnt cause the chaos described - especially youngsters, but it is unusual. Biting low down on a leg is an uneducated technique as it invites a kick in the head!

We had some success with large havahart traps, You have to be patient and wait (and be prepared to remove skunks, etc) Only time a coyote was caught, the landowner set a conibear trap that caught him around the neck as he was under her rabbit hutch. Rabbits had been grabbed from below and legs chewed off, so we were not surprised.

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#12

Your horses injuries sound very similar to those caused to a friends horse by a bullmastiff. The horse was able to retreat to an area where the invisible fence prevented the dog from continuing with the attack, so his wounds were not quite as severe as your horse’s sound, but in the same places.

From what I remember about coyote behavior, yipping is not hunting behavior, but for gathering the pack. They are silent when they hunt. I am in central MA and have eastern coyotes regularly crossing and hunting in my pasture. The only issues we have had with them has been the occasional loss of barn cats, and free ranging poultry. We started locking up the barn cats at night and no more losses. A couple LGDs would go a long way in dissuading coyotes from hunting on the property.

I do remember some years ago, a post on the yellow board about a horse killed by a pack of coyotes in eastern MA. It was shortly after the owner fed breakfast, and she caught the pack feeding when she went back out. If i remember correctly, not a lot of details were shared, but they think the coyotes spooked the horses and the horse that was attacked had run into a tree, and perhaps fell down. If it is coyotes, perhaps it is the same pack and they have learned a new method of hunting from the other incident?

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#13

We had German Shepherd sized coyotes in Northern Virginia. They killed a lot of our foxes, all of the feral cats, and many deer. It was unnerving to meet them in the pasture. They did not injure any horses, but they had easier prey available to them. You may need donkeys or some Great Pyrenees dogs to patrol the farm.

#14

The military base I used to work on had something that looked like coyotes, but were huge compared to the one’s I’ve seen over the years. I think they were coydogs. One man hit one with his car, and it took a lot of the front grill, fender and wheel well off, and that’s way bigger than a regular 30-40 lb coyote would do. I think they’re either coydogs, or feral dogs that are allowed to run.

#15

There is a very much coyote looking type of wolf, but bigger, that has been giving trouble in South TX:

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0006320717312776

Many can’t tell it from coyotes at first sight, other than being a very big coyote.

Any time we have predators giving trouble, we get the game wardens involved, is standard any more, with all kinds of new regulations, more than anyone can keep track of.
A few years ago coyotes were very numerous, in fact, the rabbits and deer have not recovered yet.
Those coyotes were getting into pens and killing smaller cattle right in there, two or three a night.
One night they killed a grown cow someone had penned overnight.

The recommendation was, it is time to thin coyotes to get some peace.

I expect OP and her vet gave their game warden notice, had them make a report.

1 Like
#16

I’ve been doing some reading and watched the PBS Documentary “Meet the Coywolf”. They are certainly here, and in large numbers. There are some interesting youtube videos as well, for whatever they are worth.

Most shown on the documentary look small to me. Not sure why, but the band that followed the group of us on a trail ride, and those that sat and watched me ride in the field were much larger. Perhaps being stalked by a large band of canids has them look larger than 35-40 lbs.

1 Like
#17

wow, the rest of my post has disappeared. I answered people’s questions, etc. Will have to redo tomorrow. Past bedtime!

#18

With all the turkeys and deer gone, the predators are likely desperate from hunger and driven to attacking even big horses.

I wish I had some suggestions for you. That close to a city like Boston is really scary.

#19

I was stunned when I visited family in the southwest and saw what a “real” coyote looks like - so much smaller than what we deal with in the Chicago suburbs. My family lost a dog to a coyote several years ago - my father was out with her in the front yard, less than five feet away. Coyote ran by and grabbed her. Unfortunately, in our area what we identify as coyotes are large, aggressive, intelligent, and utterly fearless when it comes to proximity to people. Several people I’ve spoken with indicate it’s likely that we’re dealing with the coyote/dog hybrids rather than a straight coyote which could explain the complete size discrepancy. Due to the urban nature of your location, I wonder if, rather than the coyote-wolf hybrid, you’re seeing coyotes who have interbred with feral dogs and reproduced…? Regardless - what a scary situation and I hope that some local resources are available to you to help address the problem. Jingles for your mare’s expedient recovery.

#20

Electric fencing is very effective for keeping predators out of pastures. Use the thin wire, not the tape or rope, spaced 6 inches apart, and an appropriate charger for the job. Very quick and easy to put up, and inexpensive. You can also place squares of tinfoil with bacon grease or meat hanging from the hot wire- one good zap to the tongue and they will avoid your fence line like the plague.

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