Altho I’ve seen coyotes on hunts a couple of times, I’ve never been in a field that really got on one close. How does it work out? It seems to me coyotes are so darned fast (faster than the hounds, it seems to me), that I can’t imagine how the hounds would do anything but trail behind until the coyote hit a tree line and disappeared.
Very Very Very fast. Fast and straight. Hounds will keep up if you have a fast pack - only the fastest horses will.
Very long runs. Miles and miles. Best to be on a TB or 3/4 TB. (though one of my draft crosses keeps up but the other one can’t so don’t take that as gospel.)
Not for the faint of heart. Fast quarry, fast hounds, fast horses. Lots of fun in open galloping country - not so fun in trappy or brushy/woody country (especially if you’re on a really tall horse)
I’ve only chased them in my main club but that has been my very limited experience. And I’ve not hunted them over fences - but our 2nd field is right behind 1st field; but if gates aren’t close by we have to race to a gate and then race to catch up - no lollygagging permitted. Our coops and barways are 3ft to 3’3" - but again - trappy so the landing and tackoff can make those jumps a lot bigger and more difficult. Hilltoppers do have to be able to jump some smaller things if necessary. (usually downed trees)
Hounds usually have no trouble though. Especially at the height of the season when they are very fit.
Around here we hunt mostly coyote and we have a pretty trappy, heavily wooded territory. Because we have a very well established population, they tend to run in large circles, often going back to the place the hounds find one or more times. Eventually the hounds usually lose the scent because, as you said, the coyotes are faster and know the territory so well. However, when a coyote is not on his home turf or feels pressure from the hounds, hang on- now the horse race begins. They are loads of fun when they stay in country, but they can get out of country pretty fast. It is definitely interesting to see the difference in how individual coyotes run, as well as their regional tendencies.
I went out with the Camden Hunt on New Years Day, and they accounted for one. It was huge, about the size of a midsized german Shepherd. Our Field Master/JtMFH was awesome and had the field right where we needed to be.
I had "fox"hunted my entire life until moving to OK 5.5 years ago. Coyote is the only prey out here in Ok or Ks. They are often found in pairs or larger groups and tend to split when roused!! As stated…a coyote run is not for the faint of heart (our country is extremely rugged to say the least) and a TB or very TB’y cross is the mount of choice if you want to keep up. I’ve only seen one “accounting” and that was a coyote who crouched in the tall grass when the hounds ran past. He stood up as a second group of hounds came up behind him. Most get away!! Days of hunting are long and tiring!! BIGGGG hunting territories!!!
No joke - it’s proven that coyotes are interbreeding with wolves in some parts of the US.
ay ay ay…:eek:
We have coyotes in our territory along with both red and gray foxes. We run them all. One thing with coyotes is that once they have an established territory they will run a circle. Its just much bigger and not as squirrely as a fox.
I hunted with Belle Meade a few years ago. Their top speed was about the same as the top speed in our hunt. The difference is they will stay in those gallops longer than our territory or game will allow.
We hunt them. See them all the time, too. One thing that they can do is sort of tag-team eachother, or try to. Our hounds tend to really stay on the hunted coyote, but if a pack falls for it then they can be too tired to stay on the fresh coyote.
My fastest speed was 31 mph on one. The farthest I’ve ever hunted was 25 miles on a hunt.
Heard some amazing stories about Hard Away-Whitworth about fat coyotes that are feasting on catfish ; ).
[QUOTE=crosscreeksh;5451743]
I had "fox"hunted my entire life until moving to OK 5.5 years ago. Coyote is the only prey out here in Ok or Ks. They are often found in pairs or larger groups and tend to split when roused!! As stated…a coyote run is not for the faint of heart (our country is extremely rugged to say the least) and a TB or very TB’y cross is the mount of choice if you want to keep up. I’ve only seen one “accounting” and that was a coyote who crouched in the tall grass when the hounds ran past. He stood up as a second group of hounds came up behind him. Most get away!! Days of hunting are long and tiring!! BIGGGG hunting territories!!![/QUOTE]
I’m surprised you haven’t chased any fox or bobcat. While it was rare, we probably had two hunts a year where we chased red fox and bobcat at the Artillery hunt. Here in AZ now, it’s another story, although if we get in the woods in Flagstaff we will very rarely get on grey fox.
The interesting thing is that my TB actually recognizes coyote. One time he almost jumped the arena fence when there was one standing in the neighbor’s driveway! Horses really pick up the hunting “game” quickly, don’t they? He also knows the different sounds of the horns and can even recognize hound cries. Hold on when he hears that they are on a hot coyote line!
[QUOTE=JSwan;5452181]
No joke - it’s proven that coyotes are interbreeding with wolves in some parts of the US.
ay ay ay…:eek:[/QUOTE]
I’d love to hear more about that, I didn’t know they even hung out together at all. I did see a giant black one at our property in Cleveland, OK when I was going to medical school in Tulsa, it was nearly black. I always assumed it was crossbred. I saw him many times, he was fairly bold and probably twice as big as the other coyotes on our property.
[QUOTE=Doctracy;5452424]
I’d love to hear more about that, I didn’t know they even hung out together at all. I did see a giant black one at our property in Cleveland, OK when I was going to medical school in Tulsa, it was nearly black. I always assumed it was crossbred. I saw him many times, he was fairly bold and probably twice as big as the other coyotes on our property.[/QUOTE]
On the NatGeo channel they had a film on the woman in Canada that was killed by three coyotes. They said that in NE USA and E Canada the coyotes have mated with wolves. That has given rise to a new type of predator. Very wily, can hunt in a family pack and not afraid of humans.
I posted a while back about a 104 pound coyote that a hunter killed recently. You might think that was a crossbreed with a wolf, but its DNA showed it was pure coyote.
They said that in NE USA and E Canada the coyotes have mated with wolves.
I don’t know about the US hybrids but the Canadian ones are reputed to be dog crosses rather than wolf mixes - there are at least a couple of documented coydog packs (sorry no bookmarks but a local horse was killed last year by one of these packs).
Wolf life & mating behavior does not lend itself to cross breeding so I’m always very sceptical - unless the wolf blood is coming from “domesticated” wolves or the high mix wolf-dogs.
The only animal we hunted in NV (red Rock Hounds) were coyote. In the 5 years I hunted there, I saw the hounds run down 1. They are too smart and fast to get caught, unless it’s a really old or sick animal. You are right about the hunting, though, nothing beats is - Fast and furious. We had open country, so not too trappy once you were familiar with the land. We would often travel over 20 miles a day. I surely do miss it!
In my experience it is much as Little Valkyrie relates. The very first time I was with a pack on coyote was in the 80s in old Bull Run territory, not too far south of Gilbert’s Corner on the east side of Rt 15. As it happens, quarry and hounds broke cover on ‘my side,’ and I was deeply suspicious, as unreliable younger hounds were sounding a bit riotous…but the reliable never-ever-riot hounds were right there with them, just running mute. And so I knew it was not deer, and did not stop hounds. I was alone with them for probably 20 minutes, going hell bent for leather across hay fields, and finally glimpsed Wiley up ahead as we were entering woods. About then the huntsman caught up, I said you won’t believe this, but it’s a coyote, and he cheered hounds on. At that point the ‘good reliable’ hounds understood that whatever-it-was-but-it-wasn’t-fox was okay to hunt, and the full blown symphony opening up was just one of those things you live for.
That particular coyote ran three large loops, I will say about 3 miles in diameter, and then boogied due west across Rt 15, which is where we stopped hounds. I subsequently learned from those with more experience with coyotes that that was pretty much standard m.o. for an eastern coyote.
Out west it’s a bit of a different story. As regards coyotes, ranchers will shoot first (from a couple of miles away w/scoped rifle) and ask questions later, so a never-hunted coyote is apt to see you coming well before you see him and just skedaddle. Where I’ve hunted such coyotes and hounds were brought to the view, yes, straight line, 4 or 5 miles tops before losing the pack. Altjaeger, I can indeed recall one incident where hounds were 30 yards behind coyotes for a good 4 miles- me on one side, other whipper in on other, huntsman behind, and I was quite sure that coyote was headed for heaven. But no, when he’d had enough he just turned on the afterburners, put another 40 yards’ distance between himself and the pack, and then ducked through a bunch of antelope where hounds threw up. They were stopped there because we knew that rancher had cows calving (even though that rancher said before we moved off, if you get going, just cut the fence, I’ll fix it later!).
However, coyotes ‘accustomed’ to being hunted with hounds do circle like fox, just a larger circle. An example is the coyotes that live near Red Rock kennels north of Reno. Heck, if you spend a day at kennels, you will see coyotes ambling nonchalantly through the horses’ pastures within spitting distance of the kennels. I’ve also been out w/Red Rock when a couple of hours into the day, hilltoppers turned around and saw a coyote trailing them like a dog, looking to see what was going on.
And, I’ve heard tell of one coyote, really really in a tight spot relative to the pack, who simply whipped around and did the regular old puppy crouch front end down ‘I want to play with you’ pose. The pack ground to a halt and didn’t know what the heck to do. As related to me, a couple of younger hounds did indeed respond positively to the invitation- just enough of a distraction for the coyote to make good his escape as huntsman gathered up hounds in bemusement.
I think they really, really tough and clever cookies as quarry. And coupled with the terrain out here, really a challenge!
I have friends who hunt with Hard Away-Whitworth. They regularly run (and the hounds often catch/kill) coyote. Apparently, as others have said, the runs are incredibly fast and can sometimes last hours. I went cubbing with them as a guest last fall, but we (luckily for me and my not-terribly-fit horse) never really got a good chase.
They have become common in W. Carolina, so we chase them often. They are fun, but it’s guilty pleasure, because the huntsman picks up hounds all night. Our hounds are fast, and the country can get rough, so the whips can have a very hard time getting in front of the hounds to turn them.
Today was our last meet for the year, and we usually run a drag. Early this morning the huntsman found a fresh road killed coyote, and used it for the drag. We got to look at it after the hounds “ran it to ground”. It was big and beautiful, with a full coat and big bushy tail.
Coyotes ![](n the D.C. Region, on the radio yesterday
http://wamu.org/programs/mc/http://wamu.org/a/4253_ml.jpg Topdogs/Underdogs: Coyotes in the D.C. Region
Back in the day, coyotes were so low in the pecking order of predators, you’d be hard pressed to find one in this region. But with larger predators out of the picture, coyotes are moving in to the D.C. area. Sabri Ben-Achour takes a nature walk with a local wildlife biologist, to find out more.
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Week of February 21, 2011
Friday, Feb. 25, 2011
- This Week on Metro Connection: Underdogs!
- Buy Frank A Drink
- Topdogs/Underdogs: Coyotes in the D.C. Region
- Door to Door: Hillcrest & Park View
- Pulling For The Underdog
- The Comeback College
- Greyhound Welfare
- Making the Impossible Possible: Rorschach Theatre
- D.C. Gigs: Selling 'Express'
- Remembering David Edwards
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[B]Friday February 25, 2011[/B]
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This Week on Metro Connection: Underdogs!
We’ll hear from underdogs in the D.C. region who have faced their share of adversity, yet somehow managed to defy it all, and come out on top. But first, a little something for all you cartoon junkies from the 1960s and 1970s…
[Music: “Every Little Bit Hurts” by John Davis from Title Tracks]
[IMG]http://wamu.org/a/4254_ml.jpg) Maggie the Underdog. Courtesy of: http://www.flickr.com/photos/mugsy/1796689980/
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Back in the day, coyotes were so low in the pecking order of predators, you’d be hard pressed to find one in this region. But with larger predators out of the picture, coyotes are moving in to the D.C. area. Sabri Ben-Achour takes a nature walk with a local wildlife biologist, to find out more…
[IMG]http://wamu.org/a/4253_ml.jpg) A coyote at the Virginia Living Museum in Newport News, Va. ..[IMG]file:///C:/DOCUME%7E1/User/LOCALS%7E1/Temp/moz-screenshot-6.png)I guess I’ll have to see it to really understand. The coyotes I’ve seen could easily out pace any hounds I’ve seen at any hunt. And, even tho where I hunt is a pretty big fixture (at least by eastern standards) at 3000 acres, that’s really only 2 x 3 miles. It doesn’t take long to get off that if a coyote chooses to do a straight run.
Now, horses could catch up to a coyote, easily, but then we’re not allowed to do, that, LOL, as that would mean passing the pack.
Well then you’d have to ask the huntsmen about their breeding programs. Hound breeding, training and management is its own subject - and an extraordinarily detailed and complex one.
A hound isn’t just a “hound”.
There are different bloodlines. Different types/breeds. Clubs breed for specific qualities. Every club is different - but the MFHA maintains the studbooks.
“east coast” standards - exactly what are they? There are clubs that hunt many thousands of acres. We’re not hunting in the suburbs with mongrel dogs for crying out loud.
DocTracy - biologists in the NE have done some studies on skull morphology in coyotes. They are, in some places, interbreeding with wolves. It may have something to do with wolf reintroduction programs but I have no idea. I don’t think any scientists are guessing at how extensive that interbreeding might be, or how far it has spread. It’s known they interbreed with dogs; now it’s known that they will interbreed with wolves. That’s all I know.
