Crating dogs..when did this become the norm?

[saultgirl]

[QUOTE=Nezzy;7603530]
seriously? they knock their water over, they are a target for any loose dog to hurt or kill. a crate is a safe place. a tied dog can’t do anything either, but in a crate in a house, they are safe from other dogs or evil people.[/QUOTE]

Yes, I was asking seriously; I’d personally rather see a dog tied out with plenty of room, water & shelter, than in a kennel all day. Just as I leave my horse in turnout all day (where he is not guaranteed to be safe from dogs or evil people) instead of keeping him stalled.

[dani0303]

I was forced into crate training my dog when she was stepped on by a horse and broke her shoulder at 8 weeks old. $3000 and a plate and 6 screws later I had to keep her quiet for 6 weeks. The only way to possibly do that with a pup is to crate train them. It took her a few days to adjust but she was fine with it. Her shoulder healed up great too.

I almost never crate her anymore. She has free run of the apartment at all times but she’s also an amazingly well behaved dog. It’s a comfort knowing that in an emergency, she’s perfectly content in a crate. I don’t anticipate having to use one again but sh*t happens.

[S1969]

I guess I’m just not understanding what possible disadvantage there is to crating. I can only assume that people have a vastly different understanding of “crate training” than I do.

Training a dog to relax and sleep in an enclosed space for its own safety and comfort…why is this bad?

Forcing it to be “caged” all day and night? Of course that would be bad. But that’s not the same as being “crate trained”. That’s just neglect, which can be done just as easily by keeping a dog in a kennel or tied to a tree or dog house. None of that is actually “training.”

(ETA, my now deceased dog had CCL surgery and also had to be crated for an extended period of time. We just moved his crate into the living room and took away the coffee table. It wasn’t fun, but it sure was nice that he already considered it “his space” and was comfortable in it. Of course he didn’t want to confined as much as he had to be, but he wasn’t upset by the crating, just the duration.)

[dani0303]

[QUOTE=S1969;7603848]
I guess I’m just not understanding what possible disadvantage there is to crating. I can only assume that people have a vastly different understanding of “crate training” than I do.

Training a dog to relax and sleep in an enclosed space for its own safety and comfort…why is this bad?

Forcing it to be “caged” all day and night? Of course that would be bad. But that’s not the same as being “crate trained”. That’s just neglect, which can be done just as easily by keeping a dog in a kennel or tied to a tree or dog house. None of that is actually “training.”[/QUOTE]

It does seem like there are a lot of people who will crate their dogs all day while they’re gone, and then all night while they’re asleep. I think that’s what the OP is referring to. Keeping a dog crated vs. crate training. I equate it to keeping a horse stalled 20+ hours a day. It’s unhealthy and (IMHO) cruel.

[S1969]

[QUOTE=dani0303;7603850]
It does seem like there are a lot of people who will crate their dogs all day while they’re gone, and then all night while they’re asleep. I think that’s what the OP is referring to. Keeping a dog crated vs. crate training. I equate it to keeping a horse stalled 20+ hours a day. It’s unhealthy and (IMHO) cruel.[/QUOTE]

I agree. And I did board my horse once when we bought her, and she was stalled for 20+ hours per day. I hated every minute of it.

[GraceLikeRain]

I think crating is becoming more prevalent as people attempt to find ways to reduce the number of dogs dumped in shelters for preventable reasons. I constantly hear about people “needing to get rid” of a dog because it is destructive or not house broken. Crating is often a viable option for preventing this behavior and keeping the dog from ending up in a shelter.

I don’t normally crate but I think it is a really valuable skill. I like knowing that if needed, my guy can quietly and safely crate when traveling or at a vet’s office.

I think if you can avoid crating without unwanted behavior, a dog is happier wandering around a house during the day. However, if it is going to create destructive behavior then I think crating is a great idea when done properly.

[ElisLove]

My dogs have all started out being crate trained when they are puppies. This helps in the training process of potty breaks and keeps them out of mischief when we go away until we are sure that they are fully trained to both not be destructive and not have accidents (while we are out of the house or at night). Once they are fully trained and trustworthy they ‘graduate’ to having run of the house.
Crate training also helps the dog be less stressed in a vet/grooming/boarding situation where they may have to spend some time in a crate. Dog that aren’t used to ever being confined in such a way aren’t going to be as accepting.

[Bluey]

Crating has been taught in our dog club classes to the public for a good half century now.
It is taught in the puppy, beginner and household manner classes.

Crating is one more way to train and live with dogs.

Crating is not evil, you have to use good common sense and know why you are crating and how to.
Can it be abused? Sure, but abuse can happen with any other method, if it is tying out or leaving in a yard unattended for long time.

I think absolutely crating is much better for the dog than tying out, where it can get tangled to be where it can’t get away from anyone wanting to harm it, animal or human.
Kenneling is even better with the right kennel setup if a dog has to be there long time, your dog is safely confined and protected.
The worst is a dog running loose, that is free, yes, free to get killed in way too many ways.
Free farm dogs generally have short lives.
A friend just lost their loose farm dog, that “never got on the highway”!
Got ran over, so guess what, it did get on the highway, at least that one time, evidently.

I rather keep a dog confined and alive than free to die out there.
Others may disagree and in the end, it is their dogs.

[saultgirl]

@GraceLikeRain;7603923

I don’t normally crate but I think it is a really valuable skill. I like knowing that if needed, my guy can quietly and safely crate when traveling or at a vet’s office.

I agree with this; like having a horse who is used to staying in a stall sometimes.

I can’t support leaving a dog in crate during the day, then out for an hour or two, then back in the crate all night. I feel the same way about stalling horses for 20+ hours a day.

[MsM]

RE: the idea that no dog “likes” being in a crate.

My (admittedly neurotic) Aussie did. He was crate trained as a pup and then graduated to larger areas and then having the run of the house. Oddly enough, he was not comfortable being loose in the house. He barked and chewed, no matter how I arranged things. I went back to a smaller space but he was still stressed out - actually chewed and broke a window, hurting himself. Finally figured out that his safe place was in his oversize crate in the bedroom. There he was quiet and didn’t even chew much on chew toys.
So sometimes not being “responsible” for the whole house seems calming.
Current little dogs have both done a rehab stint in crates. When not injured, they graduated to an ex pen and then to the bedroom with a doggie door to an outside run. I don’t give them whole house access for fear of them chewing the wrong thing or injuring themselves jumping on the furniture.
I agree that crating a dog day and night is not a great solution. At the very least, ex pens and baby gates can confine yet allow some room to move around. Still, crate training allows for calm confinement when the need arises and has helped put into the public’s mind that it is okay to confine.

[Bicoastal]

Today, most households are empty as both parents work and children are at school or daycare. Yesteryear, there were more housewives home during the day, more small farms, and more dogs permitted to roam neighborhoods.

[QUOTE=Beentheredonethat;7603131]
I find that video you showed, threedgopack, appalling. What a complete ass. He gets a “high drive” dog, and then says how great he is by having a “play yard” of 3 foot square with toys in it. Why isn’t that puppy in the yard running around like a puppy should?[/QUOTE]

That video is of a professional, successful dog sports trainer and breeder.

@threedogpack;7603185

you really think running around the yard is going to calm that puppy down?

I don’t know any dogs who adequately self-exercise by running around the yard.

[Nezzy]

[QUOTE=saultgirl;7603749]
Yes, I was asking seriously; I’d personally rather see a dog tied out with plenty of room, water & shelter, than in a kennel all day. Just as I leave my horse in turnout all day (where he is not guaranteed to be safe from dogs or evil people) instead of keeping him stalled.[/QUOTE]

tied dogs do not have plenty of room. and they are a target. sorry but i’d rather keep my dogs SAFE.

[threedogpack]

[QUOTE=Bicoastal;7604060]
Today, most households are empty as both parents work and children are at school or daycare. Yesteryear, there were more housewives home during the day, more small farms, and more dogs permitted to roam neighborhoods.

That video is of a professional, successful dog sports trainer and breeder.

I don’t know any dogs who adequately self-exercise by running around the yard.[/QUOTE]

thank you Bicoastal.

[S1969]

[QUOTE=saultgirl;7603749]
Yes, I was asking seriously; I’d personally rather see a dog tied out with plenty of room, water & shelter, than in a kennel all day. Just as I leave my horse in turnout all day (where he is not guaranteed to be safe from dogs or evil people) instead of keeping him stalled.[/QUOTE]

The comparable equivalent to tying a dog out would be tying a horse out, not turning out in a safely fenced pasture or paddock.

I was recently at a field trial and people did tie their horses out overnight rather than keep them in their trailers. But I wouldn’t actually call this giving a horse plenty of room.

Not that it’s always bad to tie a dog out; we used to tie our dog out before we had a fence, but it was only while someone was home and able to supervise. He had a 30’ check cord on a swivel post, and nothing to obstruct or tangle him (so also, no water to tip over, that was in the house.) If we had to leave the house, he had to come inside.

[saultgirl]

[QUOTE=Nezzy;7604158]
tied dogs do not have plenty of room. and they are a target. sorry but i’d rather keep my dogs SAFE.[/QUOTE]

I forgive you. No hard feelings.

[Bicoastal]

I dislike unsupervised tying out

As for tying out being better than crating indoors, didn’t we just have a thread where a tied out dog bit a young boy who wandered into the dog’s space from two houses down?

I believe dogs tied out have a higher incidence of biting. ASPCA says tied out dogs are 3x more likely to bite.

Bite sports people use ‘back tying’ in a training exercise to increase aggression.

[Roxyllsk]

My last rescue dog could not be crated. He was seriously destructive when we first got him, to the point where he dug holes in the drywall, ripped curtains down, ripped up carpet when we were not home. The rescue did not disclose this behavior to us. We tried to crate him and he got so stressed out and dug so badly that his paws were bloody. We ended up finding ways to work around this, but it sure was NOT easy. Every window had to have a scat mat on the ledge, even when he was restricted to one room. It also was very difficult to manage him when he needed surgery and had to be restricted. He would not tolerate being in an xpen, either. Anyway, he had not been properly crate trained at a young age.

I will never have a dog like that again. It’s just too difficult to manage in my living situation.

My next puppy came to me already crate trained, but not house broken. He eventually earned more and more free time as he was housebroken and learned the rules, and since he was 18 months old he has not been crated at all. He has free run of the house when I’m not home and keeps himself out of trouble.

My new puppy is now crate trained. She also has been earning her way to more free time as she gets older. I am using the other dog’s old crate for her, and the funny thing is that he goes inside and lays down with the door open.

Crating has never been a long-term thing for me. Both dogs willingly go into the crate when I ask them. But it sure is nice knowing that if I need to crate either dog, they’ll be okay with it and not stressed out.

[LauraKY]

Why do some of you have so little confidence that you have to bash those who do things differently? Some people crate (for good reasons) some do not (again for good reasons).

Personally, I want all mine to at least accept a crate, it’s really important if they should need hospitalization. But that doesn’t make it wrong to not use a crate.

Why do some of you insist there is only one way and that’s your way?

Tying out all day is a completely different subject, best left to a new thread.

[kasjordan]

Mine are crate trained. My GSD has had free rein of the house day and night since he’s been about 6 months old. Only time I crate him now is when he comes in super muddy and needs somewhere to dry off for a bit or if company comes over that I would rather he wasn’t right there (little kids that can’t contain themselves as well as he can I could put him in a room, but he’s very happy and comfortable in his big crate ,he lays right down and naps. Our little terrier puppy is now, after about 3 weeks, able to be in his crate and go right to sleep for awhile. He’s now allowed in daughter’s room with a gate up if we’re home…when he stops chewing all her underwear out of her hamper, we will see about him running loose in the house!! lol

[spotted_draft_x_fill]

Mine are crated because they’re destructive and will eat, chew, or shred anything they can get their mouths on despite having plenty of toys.