Creating "Desire" in New Riders

[173north]

Oooh, I have a lot of thoughts on this. I have people reach out to me all the time about starting riding or getting back into it, and I have a hard time helping them out. For one, the sport has grown top-heavy and there’s a real lack of solid beginner programs. I’m in Los Angeles, which is more horsey than people might expect, and there are tons of fancy show barns, but very few lesson programs I will recommend to beginners.

Plus, the overall optics, marketing and infrastructure of the equestrian industry are terrible. Finding the right barn is hard for even experienced horse people. The industry is a constellation of small businesses with no oversight, most barns put very little info online, there’s no price transparency, there’s a major lack of professionalism. Lots of kids’ sports and adult hobbies are crazy expensive, but getting into cheerleading or skiing seems a lot more user-friendly than starting riding.

I KNOW we are losing adults who want to ride and can afford it. I think riding would really benefit from taking a look at other pricey sports/hobbies like tennis and golf. They’re expensive and they’re competing for the same participants as our sport, so what do those activities offer that riding doesn’t? What are they doing right that we aren’t?

Very few of my friends (white-collar millennials with no kids and disposable income) expressed interest in riding when I was at show barns, even really laid-back ones. It seemed stuffy and inaccessible and not fun. Now that I’m at a more recreational barn with lots of trail riding and goofing off and socializing, all sorts of people are saying that actually, riding looks pretty cool and how can they get in on it?

These are people who ski, play tennis, golf, go on $$ surf vacations and yoga retreats, send their dogs off for training that costs as much as full care board, etc. They have the time, money and interest to ride, but here’s the issue I run into: They don’t want to be “in a program” or taking a ton of lessons or showing. They don’t even want to be particularly advanced riders, but they want to ride independently, they want to go on a little trail ride with friends, they want to spend time with horses. I can’t find a program or trainer set up to create and support recreational riders, but that’s what most adults new to the sport are looking for. The appeal is being outside, being with animals, getting exercise, socializing, learning a new skill, not going to WEF or doing a flying change.

I think a barn structured sort of like a gym or country club, focusing on the social and recreational aspect of riding over showing/jumping/etc, would do gangbusters here. You pay monthly dues to be a member - tier 1 gets you a 30 min lesson every week, tier 2 adds a trail ride, tier 3 adds a practice ride in the arena, etc. Work in a referral system so folks get a little discount membership when a friend takes their first lesson. Have a nice space with wifi for people to hang out, send emails, have a coffee. Do a monthly horsemanship night to teach how to spot colic or clean tack, and make it funny and social. Haul out monthly to trail ride somewhere new or go to the beach, do a big annual riding vacation together, have a tack shop mobile unit set up on site and have a shopping day, etc.

I truly think 90% of the adult population considering riding does not want to jump or show. They want to go on a chill Sunday hack with friends, maybe have a little trot to get the wind in their hair, give a horse a bath and a treat, and drink a mimosa. There are people at my barn who ride 3x per week (alone! on the trail!) and have never learned to canter. There’s people who pay full board for horses they don’t ride - they’re just pets and the barn is a social outlet. The hunter/jumper industry struggles to cater to those people, because what we’re “selling” - competition, a high level of skill, horse ownership - is not what the majority of the public actually wants out of horses or riding.

[mika0116]

I agree with 99% of what you’re saying per my own experience in LA. Tl;dr I don’t think that it is common outside LA and other high income areas nor is it a positive model for the horse industry long term.

The only item I think is an important call out in likening horses to golf and tennis is… objectively speaking the risk and danger factor of riding vs a sport like golf or tennis takes a lot of would be willing folks out of the equation.

Lots of high income single/ coupled folks have expressed interest in horses theoretically, but when brought into contact with the animals I get a lot of “omg they’re so big” (when looking at a 15h hony) or “I don’t like the face that one made at me, I’ve changed my mind” or the once they’re on and walking “this is kinda boring” and then when trotting “omg too fast, so uncomfortable, I am scared to come off”.

Just about anyone can golf without risking personal injury or having to overcome fear, anxiety, balance, etc. Note I say golf generally and not golf well (caddy for most of my HS and college life and spent some time on the golf team).

Golf and tennis are also activities that can be played while socially drinking alcohol, although golf more so than tennis. Golf for ammys at least in my experience 2004-2012 in upper middle class NJ outside NYC generally centered around drinking transfusions and other cocktails from the bev cart during and after play - few would make par – I as a caddy under 21 was the only one sober enough to keep score). No injuries to report except when a drunk fellow went to lean on his putter and fell down a small hill into a sand trap - maybe a sprained wrist.

Maybe I am a safety sally but I would NOT get on my jumper after drinking ANYTHING, I’d liken that to be similar to drinking and driving. As someone who has 20+ years of experience I only felt comfy wine tasting on horseback knowing that I could jump 1.05m and do canter/gallop sets.

I find riding more comparable to skiing, sailing, or surfing. The better you are (typically starting at a younger age, although I know a few athletic adults that really progressed fast with horses) the more accessible, SAFE, and generally “fun” it is. The three “elite S” sports also have the personal safety factor like riding which makes them far less “mentally / physically accessible”. And sure experienced folks in the three S sports & riding may indeed drink alcohol and participate in the sport, but I don’t think many of us would as rank beginners.

I must note I lived in LA as well and I know @173north 's barn personally. Those people do exist but I don’t think it is a net positive to the horse industry and the actual horses really lose and lose hard in this scenario.

The shiny will wear off and the horse will have gotten no real work ethic installed and will end up being a forgotten expense / asset on the absent owner’s balance sheet / p&l. I hate to think how these 30 min ride horses or pets would be eventually re-homed. The social owners described really took off in 2 ways: parents of juniors and then workers who are now remote for the first time ever with time on their hands. Once junior goes off to college and ages out of junior divisions and the remote workers go back to work or have more travel and other luxury experiences at their disposal those “social” riders come to the stables less and less. I watched this occur throughout 2021 in both LA and Seattle.

[Horselove5]

@173north

They don’t want to be “in a program” or taking a ton of lessons or showing. They don’t even want to be particularly advanced riders, but they want to ride independently, they want to go on a little trail ride with friends, they want to spend time with horses.

But the thing is - riding is difficult, and it takes a tremendous amount of time/money/commitment to learn how to do it independently. Horses are not a tennis rocket, golf stick, dog that sleeps next to you or a one time yoga activity!

@173north

Do a monthly horsemanship night to teach how to spot colic or clean tack,

You are kidding, right?! How will one-time collic sporting clinic educate anyone to do that?! Collic recognition takes time - time spend with and around horses, certainly not a 1-2h “fun social time a month” over drinks.

@173north

There’s people who pay full board for horses they don’t ride - they’re just pets and the barn is a social outlet.

Great, except most of them end up seldom coming! Then all the responsibilitily for their “pet’s” well-being lays solely on the hands of the (mostly overworked) barn staff. And when the animal colics some of those “recreational” owners come after 2h, if at all, 2h of their animal suffering. Not to mention the thrush, rain rots, untreated wounds or other incidents. I’ve plenty of examples, so I politetly disagree that the sport community should encourage what you suggest, because in the end it’s the horses that suffer. Owning a horse is a big, big responsibility.

[NichtNixen]

I had to come out of lurker mode (and register) to agree with the above. I did the usual slide from riding during early career and marriage, and current lifestyle decisions opened the world back up to me.

It was super challenging to find a trainer who had adult lessons, and didn’t appear so showing focused (or out of my league high end looking - but that’s my anxieties talking) that I felt comfortable reaching out - and then add in responding (at all!) to emails and voicemails.

I ended up initially taking Western lessons with some trainers who contracted with a local rental barn. It was very much focused on “fun and functional” riding (some actors tuning up for roles or skill building, a couple going on a dream vacation, and a few new and re-riding adults. It wasn’t an ideal fit for me personally, but it would be for a lot of folks - solid, kind horses and foundations in riding and some basic horsemanship knowledge. I actually lucked out and was pointed in the direction of a half-lease that’s a good match for my current fitness, and I found a coach (in the other direction!) for a weekly lesson and some homework, now that I think I know what I want - but it would have been so incredibly easy to get frustrated, feel shut out, and give up.

I think, too, that we overestimate how many kids want to show - I did it, since i was on a team in high school, but it was never a great love (except cross-country runs and hunter pace type activities). I did love taking our extremely green/rank donation lesson horses and helping turn them into solid citizens who could pack around the campers and do respectably at shows, though - I wish I’d had more encouragement and ability to focus on that.

[Mardi1]

Back in the day when I taught beginner riders, I had a 24 hour cancellation notice policy.
One of my clients - a corporate attorney - was a no show for one of his lessons, so I sent him a bill.
And another. He didn’t respond, so I called him. He said he forgot he had a lesson, and wouldn’t pay my invoice, even though he knew that was the agreement when he started riding with me. I took him to small claims court. He failed to appear in court, and sent his secretary instead. I won my claim, and afterwards, his secretary told me what a jerk he was to work for. He eventually paid the amount due as ordered by the court, and on his check, in the memo line, wrote “Alleged debt for riding lesson”.

[173north]

@Horselove5

You are kidding, right?! How will one-time collic sporting clinic educate anyone to do that?! Collic recognition takes time - time spend with and around horses, certainly not a 1-2h “fun social time a month” over drinks.

I assure you this is more colic and horse health education than what 99% of what hunter/jumper lesson programs offer here in the States. If you want to learn anything beyond tacking up (maybe) and riding, you have to educate yourself. Most folks don’t bother, they let trainers/grooms handle it. And I’m really not talking about creating horse owners here, because the responsibility, time and financial investment will always be out of reach for most people. I’m talking about making the sport more inclusive to recreational riders who want to ride a few times a week. What I had in mind is more like half-leases at a show barn - horse is in full care, 2 riders each ride 3 days per week - just with a different end goal than showing. I don’t think that’s super radical!

[173north]

@mika0116

I find riding more comparable to skiing, sailing, or surfing. The better you are (typically starting at a younger age, although I know a few athletic adults that really progressed fast with horses) the more accessible, SAFE, and generally “fun” it is.

I grew up skiing and riding and definitely think skiing is a good comparison! But I have lots of friends who are learning to ski as adults, and even more friends learning to surf, and no one learning to ride, so I am trying to parse out why those activities seem easier to enter/access than horses. I really think it’s the social aspect … and drinking could play a role, too.

I agree that the horse world in LA is a really mixed bag and I have PLENTY of complaints (and I’m curious how you know where I board!). I also see the positives of horses being generally more accessible/approachable here than most other parts of the country.

[CBoylen]

Well, part of me had the same reaction as several of the rest of you reading that post, riding recreationally without instruction is both dangerous for the person and unfair to the horse. But the other part, well, you’re not wrong.
I have a background that can get you to indoors or the 1.45m. Most of my clients don’t show. Many do foxhunt, so actually yes, you can do this sport socially with alcohol. They are though still in a program. And for the most part they want to be. They like to lesson and show up wanting to improve and learn new fun things. They hack out in a big social group on the other days and hunt once or twice a week, but they really like putting a course together and cheering on their friends when they get it right. It’s fun. I have adult beginners. One counts her lessons; she’s on her 34th. She’s delighted to be able to canter a course of poles and trot some crossrails. She asks questions, and fixes her straight lines and gets excited when it’s better than the time before. If they don’t want to jump that lesson they do poles. If they don’t want to canter that day they don’t have to. But everyone learns how to canter at least a side of the ring and jump a crossrail, even if they never choose to do it again, because your trail horse will accidentally canter or jump a log or a ditch, and that shouldn’t be your only experience. They don’t get to ride out until they can do those things. They don’t get to hunt until I say they are ready. The eagle eyed barn owner is a great horse person who addresses any problems the owner hasn’t taken care of. The horses get used in lessons or worked by professionals, nothing sits for a week and then goes out with the owner on a trail ride. Outside of that program, many would struggle or get hurt, and the horses would suffer. I think it’s a disservice to many people though to think that just because they don’t have show goals that they don’t have other goals with horses. People for the most part want to be good at things and respond well to good instruction.

[mika0116]

LA horse community is SMALL - we know everyone. I know from your post history and we talked via DM before you moved from NYC area about where you were looking once you settled. There are only really a handful of barns and 1 now maybe 2 clubs (The Paddock or Hansen Dam) in LA near Echo Park/ Hancock Park / Silver Lake that fit what you describe - again making the assumption that you board at the same facility where you encounter these folks - perhaps they don’t ride with your specific trainer or are part of your trainer’s ‘barn’. Forgive me for the overstep. I know where the crew that you describe is located for the most part.

Making a pretty educated guess based on the folks you describe that they (perhaps not you) are at one of a handful places. I can rule out some of the Saddle Clubs and barns in PV in south LA as it has that sort of community, but not as nice of facilities at the club you describe and would not be within reasonable commuting distance for your inner circle up on the Eastside.

If you confirm wether or not they also use the venue for weddings or I was going to say one of the college teams - but I think since I lived in LA and post covid some of the farms may have shifted is based in house, well then I know exactly where the crew you’re describing reside! Not the specific trainer or barn, but 100% the facility.

[173north]

Yeah, to clarify - the non-canterers are an anomaly at my barn and I was pretty horrified when I first met them! But I ride regularly with one and she’s a savvy trail rider than can sit lots of silliness. If her horse cantered or bolted she’d be fine, she’s just never worked on it in an arena. Do I endorse this? No. But sometimes I think it’s not that different from the h/j riders who can jump a little course of 18” verticals just fine, but topple off if their horse does anything unpredictable. She’s well taught, well mounted, takes a few lessons per month, has been riding for years, and is totally fine to go on a little 30 min trail ride solo or a 2 hr trail ride with me and a trainer. And she’s probably the most novice rider at the barn. I assure you it’s not as Wild West as some are picturing!

[173north]

Okay, this makes sense, I was wondering if we had PM’d! I’m not at any of the big public horse parks (LAEC, Paddock, HDHP) which is why I was feeling paranoid.

[mika0116]

yeah yeah! I got you, sorry for the assumption. Most barns you wouldn’t encounter the “pet boarding” or “cocktail club” at anywhere other than the big equestrian centers. The casual, but safe trail riders are another whole set (of whom I really enjoy both in my time in South LA - they have the walk buttons at mounted height in PV and I loved exploring the canyons and cliffs with those folks! and in WA where I felt safe taking my old junior hunter schoolie out on the tracks and fields with them due to their awareness and knowledge of the area).

[Horselove5]

@173north

I’m talking about making the sport more inclusive to recreational riders who want to ride a few times a week. What I had in mind is more like half-leases at a show barn - horse is in full care, 2 riders each ride 3 days per week - just with a different end goal than showing. I don’t think that’s super radical!

We absolutely have those arrangements around here! In our local FB page, there’re few post a week from recreational riders seeking such leases (with or without training included). Each of these posts gets at least 4-5 suggestions in the comments.
I stand by what I said - the horse community does not nead more mediocre, recreational riders with dubious horsemanship skills & no commitment. What it needs is responsible, educated (and sober!) horse lovers who do it for fun or sport regardless. The above-mentioned friends of yours are thankfully not the target group here because they lack passion & commitment.
It’s not the quantity, but the quality that will improve the situation & this thread has already pretty good suggestions on what can be done; catering to the sort of wanna be riders you describe, is not one of them IMO.

[red_mares]

@Janet

To start with, I don’t think your premise is correct. I don’t think we are “losing riders”, or “never starting” riders. My understanding is that (possibly as a consequence of Covid-related shutdowns) there has been a major SURGE in new riders. This is particularly strong in Western, Saddleseat, Arabian, Morgan.

Second, I don’t think that being able to jump “real” jumps in lessons has anything to do with developing, or keeping, the desire to ride. Don’t get me wrong, I love jumping, and primarily compete in Jumpers and Eventing. But I don’t think “getting to jump a 2’ jump” (or not) has ANYTHING to do with maintaining an enthusiasm about riding.

I think you are tilting at windmills.

I usually check these threads out because the growing new riders is a universal issue. I thought another perspective might be helpful…or not.

I drive in a Saddleseat barn. The barn is relatively new, coming up on three years old. It was an existing business taken over from a retiring/dying trainer. It’s gone from almost nothing to a pretty decent business.

Full board/training is ~$600/month, with an indoor. Private lessons are $40 each. It’s in a Richmond suburb. We have basically two strings going - riders and show riders. Academy shows cost around $200. The most expensive A show I’ve been too cost under $2k for 2 horses. We don’t do the big shows because we aren’t going to win; there’s no point.

The lesson string has grown to 6 horses & ponies. While we don’t have to worry about horses jumping 2’6", getting lesson horses that are competitive at the Academy shows is a challenge. Horse needs to be typey enough to be noticed, but able to pack a kid around a ring. The rule book might say that only the rider is judged, but that’s not reality.

There has been a COVID surge at this barn. It was one of the few activities available for kids for quite a while. We’ve picked up a few kids from hunter barns that DIDN’T want to jump. In addition, we have a growing non-riding contingent. Got a mini in the barn, so now we do driving lessons (strangely, our grandma safe Amish pony is not the easiest thing to drive). You guys can have the kids, we have the old, the lame and the lazy covered.

[Alterration]

I have to say, the saddlebred academy model is the best I’ve seen in the US as far as lesson programs and “entry level”.

Yes, the big barns still get nicer horses, but it seems a whole lot more fair than hunterland ever did.

@CBoylen - that sounds a lot like the program I’m starting here, less the foxhunting. People want to ride and ride safely. No great competition desires, and that’s ok, I’m totally over waking up at 4 am to take people to shows (though I will if someone is super super keen). I think it can be a social event, and I am regularly scheduling wine & ride nights.

These people, the people who love coming to the barn and find it to be their “third” place…they are the ones that will get their kids and grandkids into it. But they have to enjoy it first and see the benefit.

[red_mares]

@Alterration

I have to say, the saddlebred academy model is the best I’ve seen in the US as far as lesson programs and “entry level”.

Yes, the big barns still get nicer horses, but it seems a whole lot more fair than hunterland ever did.

To be honest, I’m not super impressed with what I’ve seen in academy. In a lot ways, it’s become an end in itself. In North Carolina it’s cut throat.

The new thing is “show rider” classes, which were intended to give barns the opportunity to give schoolies some show ring miles with a strong rider to fix or prevent a problem. Instead there are gals who’ve won World Championships who are showing academy. We’ve got a couple green adult riders who have been stuck showing against them. It’s ridiculous. As a result, we don’t usually do academy in NC; it’s not nearly as bad in VA.

There shouldn’t need to be an explicit rule that if you won, or even showed at Louisville, you should not be showing in the minor leagues.

[Alterration]

Ahhh I don’t see that in MO. People here seem to move up appropriately. Admittedly it’s competitive but I’ve seen very quality riders do well.

I still think it’s a great idea even if it isn’t always executed well.

[Willesdon]

There is a very puritanical attitude to equestrian sport evident in this discussion: it’s difficult, it’s hard work, it requires total committment, complete devotion and absolutely no deviation from a lifelong path to enlightenment.

Really?

Additionally, there is a culture that consistently stresses the high cost, the exclusivity of the sport, the importance of ‘belonging’ and a very snobbish view of “once a week riders” or - even worse - “wannabe riders”.

In all honesty, is there really any desire to make riding more accessible and bring in more people?

Wannabe riders… Well, not everyone wants to be an Olympic figure skater and train for hours each day of their life but there are vast numbers of people who frequently go to an ice rink and skate for fun and exercise. No one complains and someone makes a business of running the ice rink.

[DawgLady]

@Willesdon

Well, not everyone wants to be an Olympic figure skater and train for hours each day of their life but there are vast numbers of people who frequently go to an ice rink and skate for fun and exercise. No one complains and someone makes a business of running the ice rink.

Here’s the critical difference: animal welfare. In the ice skating example, nobody gets hurt if little Johnny loses interest in skating and doesn’t go for two weeks.

My own opinion on occasional riders isn’t due to exclusivity or elitism. I don’t judge someone for not wanting to be an Olympian. Skill building is not the only reason this sport demands commitment. It demands commitment because animals hang in the balance. If the occasional rider only wants to go once a week, and ride a rented horse, along with 6 other occasional riders that week, how good is that horse’s life? Who is responsible for it? Do we expect the barn staff to stay up all night with it when it colics? Or soak an abcess? Or make sure it’s blanketed properly? Or buy it supplements when needed? Or notice when it’s stocked up behind? Or notice that one eye is a little goopy? Or the hundreds of other responsibilities that go along with loving a horse? And if so, how many horses can they really be responsible for if we are going to grow the sport via that model?

Whether you’re a recreational rider or a top-level competitor, this sport does (and should) demand a high level of commitment to a high-maintenance animal. I, for one, don’t want to see that change in the interest of growing the sport.

I do want the sport to thrive, but only if the horses get to thrive along with it.

[Willesdon]

QED. Point one.

Horse welfare is also the responsibility of BO, Trainer, grooms, vets etc.etc. If these people are also properly trained then a lot of the pressure on owners is dispersed. But if the BO has no interest beyond renting out space, the Trainer has no qualifications beyond winning a few 30¢ ribbons in a sand arena, if the grooms are unpaid 13 or 14 year old girls, if the other barn help is an illegal immigrant with limited English and a very reasonable fear of authority, then yes, the owner will be carrying a very heavy load.

But not all riders are owners, not all riders want to be owners and it is the lack of opportunities for non-owners that seems to be at the base of this discussion.