The median home cost where I live is 625k. That’s not even the most expensive county in this area.
And to me, being in a major metro area, that’s actually cheap compared to so many of the other suburbs in this country.
In Seattle that median cost is in the 700’s. I don’t dare look up the median cost of LA, or San Francisco, or NYC suburbs. I might have a heart attack.
Montana is significantly cheaper than what the majority of the US population deals with. $1200 a month here wouldn’t cover the rent on most apartments around here. The cost of a new vehicle, even a mid level one, could easily be a $600 payment. My truck had a $550 payment and I bought it used. $600 monthly on Starbucks is probably a low estimate for some people in my area. Their are riots when the local Starbucks isn’t open for some reason.
That’s the reality of much of the United States population. High cost of living. It’s really quite a privilege to be able to live somewhere where the cost of living is lower; most people can’t.
Again, I’m not standing on a corner preaching about how cheap horses are. But the media, and the equestrian world, likes to pretend that equestrian sports are only for the rich 1% and that’s just not true. If you are trying to go to the Olympics? Yeah, then you need deep pockets. But if you want a horse, want to ride a few times a week, maybe show at local shows a few times a year? Then a lot of the middle class is going to be able to afford that.
I once was told ‘I don’t know how I afford’ my horses by someone who has a daughter who does competitive cheer. I know for a fact they pay $1200-$2000 a month for that, and that doesn’t include the hotel fees when they travel. And if they make it to nationals, there is airline travel plus a week of hotels in Orlando on top of all of it. If someone gave me a 2k a month budget for my horses, I’d be able to buy more horses!
I don’t live in Montana. I live in a fairly average cost of living area. I think you are letting your extremely high cost of living color your perspective of what life is like for the rest of us.
For example, your claim that $600/month is less than what people spend at Starbucks. Someone would have to spend $20/day, 365 days a year, for that to be true. Do you actually believe that any average person does that?
So a starting point, $600 per month paid by an owner to a barn = all the costs and possibly a bit of profit for the barn. That is about $30 per day to keep that horse. Two lessons a day for a working school horse, charged at $40-50 each … and not every lesson needs to be a jumping lesson. BUT it does depend on the trainer being focused on teaching rather than earning money through teaching to pay for their own showing career and disappearing to somewhere else for months at a time. Also, balancing lessons with boarding: this past couple of years has shown clearly how one supports the other as boarders kept the barn going in lockdown but as soon as that was lifted lessons were booked out for weeks.
‘Oh they break down!’ Maybe, but fitter horses who are in regular work, strangely enough, don’t break as easily as a horse stalled for hours of a day and ridden infrequently. Horses are work animals not pets and they thrive on having a job to do and a varied life. A good riding school will not have horses circling nose to tail for hours of the day: they will be doing different jobs with different levels of students. The poor riding of total beginners can be mitigated by the increasing skills of the better riders, if these riders are taught correctly.
Which brings us to professional training. The greatest weakness of the American system is the lack of a system. Too many ‘trainers’ claim an ability to teach based on pretty minimal experience in competition. I recently looked at an Eventing trainer advertising her ‘international experince’. In my view, just running in an FEI 2* is not really “international” in the sense of travelling overseas and having an enlightening time of it. No. Teaching, teaching, coaching is a highly skilled job that needs to be learned and developed. Other sport use unqualified coaches but e.g. soccer is not as risky as riding. Every other serious horse nation had some recognized level of professional competence. One benefit of such is usually specialist insurance for barns and trainers. Cheaper because they know what they are doing and this mitigates risk.
No one needs a $$$$$$ imported warmblood to learn to ride. Cheaper horses tend to be cheaper to run. The British Equestrian Trade Association surveys usually find that it costs about as much to run a horse per year as it first cost to purchase it. Realistically, a $1K horse is not going to get $20K treatment. But that inexpensive, non fancy horse can still teach people the basics and give them fun. Moreover, not every horse requires the perfect $$$$ bridle of butter-soft leather with beautiful stitching: that is the luxury of horse ownership. A riding school horse can do fine with one plain, functional bridle that costs $ - so long as it fits - whether jumping or doing flatwork or going on a trail ride.
Running a business is a different mindset to having a lifestyle or a hobby. Too many, if not most barns are not run as businesses and owners do not think outside their very habitual box. I’ve stood in a barn filled with horses, surrounded by green turnout pastures, with easy and convenient travel distance of a major city and been told “Riding is a dead sport”. In their case yes: they didn’t even bother to put up a business name board at their gate off the street! So how expensive is it to create a good, up to date, informative web page? How hard is it to create interesting, regular social media? How hard is it to publish information about lesson times, prices, group lessons and budget bundles, opportunities for adults to learn? ‘Oh, it takes time and costs too much’ is not a good response to those questions. It is an interesting experiment to search on line for horse riding lessons. Try it. Too much of the horse world is word of mouth and if one isn’t inside that world it can be very hard to break in to it.
Then on to facilities. How much does it cost to have a decent, warm, clean well-lit restroom? Dare I mention, a shower and lockers? Or a pleasant room where parents, riders, staff (yes, I include staff as human beings) can sit in comfort and have a coffee when waiting for children, rides, just taking a break from work? That is not a huge financial outlay. It can become a money maker if the offer expands to cake and cookies for sale. In Europe, the riding club is often a destination restaurant, but that is a different world. How expensive is it to put a seated viewing gallery into your arena given the overall cost of construction? Parents can watch their darlings without getting in the way of the lesson and stay dry and warm. And then there is rental potential for clinics, shows, or dog agility, or archery …
Beyond the lessons, the cost for a starter rider is not high. Helmets and boots, the basic minimum, could be hired out to students until they decide they are having fun and wish to continue riding. I know of barns that carry a small range of basic clothing, which can be another profit point for a business. The intense pressure for teenage conformity need not come into play if the adults in the barn don’t themselves reinforce the myth of totally essential ownership of white breeches with German names, custom leather tall boots and $$$$ helmets covered with bling. Once riders are competing at a high level, the yes, riding is an expensive sport. So is car racing, yacht racing, bike racing… A colleague pointed out in a catalogue the bike he wanted. I yelped “£3000 for the little middle triangle thingy! What about everything else that makes a bike - like wheels, handlebars, a seat?” He acknowledged that 3K was just the starting point, everything else had to be purchased separately and for equally massive prices. He was surprised when I said I could go Ascot sales and buy a TB horse, with known history and vetting, for a minimum £800 bid. I bet everyone knows how pricey horse sport is but very few will know how expensive hockey and cheerleading are.
Would I run a lesson barn? No. I’ve done it and I got bored. Teaching I love but looking after horses doesn’t provide me with sufficient intellectual stimulation.
I was one of “those kids” that grew up in the 1950s when every TV show had a horse, my family could not afford such luxury for me… it was one of those promises I made to myself that when I was older I would figure out a way to help others. (I ended up as a regional sales manager on commission sales making a Lot of money)
I must admit we used our horses to teach of children about life. From an early age they were deeply involved in the management of our horses, which we mostly had at home in the backyard. (our backyard is 2.2 acres so there was room even though we are in the city).
Our kids’s friends were often here, some almost lived here but there never ever was a problem.
Most often these kids felt a specific horse was theirs which really never became an issue as all of big guys were/are Morgans who really have a special heart for kids.
The one heart breaking event was the death of one of the young girls in a motorcycle accident, her mother asked for some mane from her favorite horse (Shamrock Foxie Joy) to place in her daughter’s casket. Often we would find this girl talking to Foxie either while she was brushing her or she might have been just setting her stall as the two had a conversation…the girl’s mother said her daughter had said Foxie was the only one who understood her.
The girl is the center one of the three Foxie, they were goofing off after school one day (my daughter who did the summer camps is the one with the helmet)
(also, several of our horses used in the summer camps were regional and national champion show horses and continued their winning way long after those summer camps, they just adjust to the needs of their charges)
One barn I rode at pretty much devoted all summers to doing camps. It was a huge money-maker, at least in the short run.
BUT most barns in my area don’t do this, because the time devoted to holding camp often means time they can’t have regular lessons with people who board. The barn I was at didn’t have regular boarders, and truthfully, I would be peeved if I couldn’t ride my horse in the early morning (read cool) hours of the summer because camp was going on in all of the rings.
The barn also was a lesson barn, which meant there were many school horses you could put kids on, BUT the regular riders of those horses were annoyed, because they felt the horses were getting overworked at camp–they were handed a hot, sweaty horse to ride in a lesson (when lessons could be squeezed in) who had often been soured by going 'round all day with a very beginner child who had trouble staying on. Also, while some of the school horses were fine being led around, there were fewer that could really allow a child to ride independently at the walk and the trot.
Also, the camp riders didn’t really become regular riders. Many of the parents picked the camp simply because it was close to home and a convenient place to drop kids off coming and going. I was at that barn for a couple of years and the kids didn’t really progress (going back to the original intention of the thread) from just riding for a few weeks in the summer, and then just aged out.
I did ride at a wonderful sleepover eventing camp in Vermont as an adult, which is now sadly closed, but it wasn’t a boarding barn. It was also in a cool area, the horses were fit from being kept in spacious, mountainous paddocks, and very well-maintained. There was also a huge number of horses for all levels. But they weren’t boarder or lesson horses, and had plenty of time of between camps.
Today, if open to the public many states require the facilities to be designed for ADA accommodation which escalates the cost.
I was on an advisory board for the US Forest Service when equine trails were being placed in National Forests … at the trailheads we had to provide equal access to all. We had to build ramps and chutes for riders who were wheelchair bound … I am pretty sure none of these have ever been used for the intended purpose but had to be included… and I know these ramps are still there
I’ve lived all over the country. Sorry for assuming, your username lead me to believe you lived there. I have family in Montana and Idaho.
As I said, I’ve lived all over the country. In many suburban areas the numbers I gave are completely normal. Just look at average home values by county, it gives a good picture of what the average middle class family is making in that area.
I could say the same of you; your extremely low cost of living is coloring your perspective.
No, I don’t think the average person does that. But a lot of people do. Another example; A lot of people also see no issue dropping 25-30 bucks getting takeout lunch every day; again, that’s going to add up to that horse payment.
The point is, is that life is about choices. If you are someone making a middle class income you make choices about what you can afford. I make the choice to spend my money on horses. I could also make the choice to spend it on Starbucks and takeout lunch, or a exclusive gym membership, or tennis lessons, etc.
But really, I’m not even sure why we are talking about this. In my area you can keep a horse, if you field board, for $600 a month. In a lot of other suburbs that isn’t true, it’s way more expensive. In other areas, the cost is less.
In the post I made, I prefaced that number with ‘at least in my area…’ so it’s kind of arbitrary if you don’t live in my area? Maybe where you live you could keep a horse for $400. Or maybe in your area the cheapest you could go was $800. Or $1000.
Of course, this gives a wide range, and some people in that range are struggling to buy groceries every week. But a middle class family in my state makes a median income of 93k. So that’s what I consider the middle class.
And nationally, that number is more like $67k. As I said before, your high cost of living area is skewing your perspective of what “middle class” means elsewhere.
I’m bowing out now, because you and I are never going to see eye-to-eye on this.
Ok, but the thing is, I was never talking about nationally. I said several times that $600 was applied to my area, and that ‘around here’ that’s a car payment. Those numbers are also true for places like the suburbs of Seattle Washington, or San Francisco. They aren’t going to be applicable everywhere. And I never said they were.
I live in one of those $800-$1,000 a month areas, minimum. Yes, you can probably find a few cheaper places, if you’re willing to drive very far, not have an indoor, not have an on-site trainer, and probably have to supplement food, do more hands-on care yourself, and deal with squicky facilities. I don’t mean using a porta-potty, but squicky as in muddy fields, iffy hay, and so forth. So that means extra time, and also additional knowledge to find a place that might be a bit cheaper, but has the compromises that won’t hurt your horse.
Unless you have your own place, or have a dear friend or trusted horseperson who runs a private barn, going cheaper than the norm in many given areas means compromising care and enjoyment.
The costs of living are going up, too, even for areas of the budget that might seem to have more wiggle room than housing, food, or gas. Cellphones are necessary, and even if a new car isn’t, a reliable car is. I am single, don’t eat out, or drink, or do much other than ride, but a family dealing with multiple demands from kids and friends (not all of whom ride), might have more trouble saying “no.”
Vet care is also something that must be budgeted in–i.e., emergency expenses. I have friends who are not hurting for money, but after having a frequent flyer at the vet’s office (plus the training expenses to get the horse restarted after being off for a long time), they decided “no more.”
There’s a lot going on in this thread!
I actually work with a ton of children at a very moderately priced old-school type barn, so I can speak to a few points that I think are getting lost. First, not all kids have the same “desire” to ride. You lose a few when things get harder than just sitting on the horse. Some like the idea of horses but not the reality, some have no work ethic, some got into riding because their friend did and actually don’t have any interest in horses at all. They’re kids.
Unfortunately talent doesn’t actually play into desire much. They can be good at it, with things coming easily, and still not want to do it; they can struggle and struggle and still show up excited to ride.
My biggest issue is scheduling. Most kids have siblings, and even if they are free of games and clubs and plays and tutoring, their brothers or sisters still have to get to their activities, and their sport is not the only interest being funded. Both parents generally work, or it’s a single parent household. Kids can’t drive themselves. There are a handful of driving grandparents and one or two with nannies, but not everyone has these options. One or at best two lessons a week are hard to accomplish, let alone getting the ride time that’s required to be actually good.
My lesson costs are affordable to almost everyone. It’s not a big commitment. I send them to the consignment store for attire, my lovely barn owner provides all the tack and even shares castoff clothing to dress them for hunting. Our Junior hunting fees are negligible, the IEA fees that are under my control are bargain basement. Any step up from there is a big commitment that I think a lot of posts in this thread are trivializing. A horse right now costs what is, objectively looking at it from a non-horsey family viewpoint, a ridiculous amount of money. If you haven’t shopped for a horse lately, look at some ads and talk to some people in your community. A kid safe horse for less than five figures is nonexistent. That’s a huge step to take for your child, and not an attractive one for someone who isn’t accustomed to knowing people who own horses. It sounds outlandish. Showing at anything other than a very local show? Ridiculous, and who has time for the travel and when does the family go on vacation? You have got to remember that to new families it’s not whether or not they can actually afford it; it’s making a choice to spend a lot of money on something that may not actually be all that appealing to them. You and I may choose to spend all our disposal income on horses, I certainly do, but the average family of any income level has vastly different priorities.
Also, let’s not forget that the average middle class family lives in the suburbs, where most barns are not. It’s not unusual for the lesson barn to be 20-40 minutes from home. This can be a significant point of difference between riding and most other sports (especially with a family who has multiple siblings all needing transport to activities).
I think there is a problem encouraging families without much disposable income to involver their kids in the sport unless you live in a area where things are less expensive. Sticker shock is a great way to lose a customer, and asking families to, say, mortgage their houses to buy their DD “the” horse is unfair. Trainers and barn owners necessarily want dependency to some extent because that is how their businesses survive- I get that- but let people know from the get-go what it costs to own and compete before their kids get too addicted. And even though the trainers may want to take charge, rarely have I seen one object to a kid picking up a broom or grooming a school or retired horse, clean misc tack hanging around, cleaning the bathroom or wash stall, or picking out their stalls. I was raised to do everything on my own, but I was first taught to do this by hired instruction. Sometimes I show with my trainer, other times I show alone if she’s unavailable. I now keep my horses at home (which believe me, costs wayyy more than boarding at the finest facilities), but I have a lifetime of experience in training, giving meds, driving a trailer, etc. So I think getting riders off their butts to set jumps and pick up, at least after themselves, but remembering that the barn has to charge for services or there will be no barn, is important. I see two kinds of riders- those that do, and those who don’t lift a finger. And I see families watching their little ones learning to ride, then asking me questions as they walk by my horse on the ties, and ask me "how much does it cost for that saddle, how much can I spend to find my kid a pony, what will it cost to show, etc.
Really interesting thread. I don’t have much to add except that today I went to sign my child (6) up for pony horsemanship camp (half day, 1 week, grooming and a little riding for total beginners) and it was over $600. And then we would need to purchase a helmet, grooming supplies, and appropriate boots. This is in a major urban area and it is a wonderful facility, I am not disputing the cost, but it is prohibitively high for most people. Other camps are about half that, maybe a little more for a specialty camp. A fancy pants music camp that is very popular in the area, but that is 3 weeks long and all day, is $1000. Just gives some perspective on the cost of things in one major urban area.
I think the major cost there might be insurance. If I run a daily project it needs to be a “clinic”. Apparently a “camp” is a huge insurance nightmare.
I live in greater Seattle - yes absolutely my demographic does. Daily coffee for 1 person and their spouse / bestie/ pilates trainer/ hiking friend etc during the work week and weekend is about $5 each (with tax and tip). So $10/day is entirely possible for a 2 person household.
Now imagine having 2 teenagers on top of the spouse who want weekend lattes or frap drinks and you’re looking at a $600/mo + coffee habit.
Personally, the habit for us started where my former industry (private equity) paid for all coffee + 2 meals a day (lunch and dinner). I was used to someone else picking up the bill. Then SO started liking coffee in Seattle (he says he can taste a difference compared to other cities). We were averaging 5 days a week of “outside coffee”. And you never JUST get coffee, sometimes a pastry or a snack or a juice or a smoothie or whatever. So what was maybe an excessive $300/mo becomes just insane.
I now work in tech and from home so no more food/coffee subsidy … you can imagine my shock when nearly $600 was missing from the budget with 2 of us having coffee outside the house most days of the week. This was JUST coffee shop related and not related to other food purchases. I am a former CPA and reconcile all my transactions monthly because I am crazy
Income and lifestyle creep is entirely a thing especially in major metro areas with high income norms. I still watch friends and colleagues blow through this money. SO and myself now have outside coffee 1x or 2x a week.
