Creating the lease horse?

[DiamondJubilee]

For me, leasing scares the bejesus out of me. I have seen and heard of so many horses/ponies going into reputable programs and coming back soured, lame, improperly cared for etc, etc. Taking people 6 months- year to get them back into shape, feet corrected or never getting them back the same and having to throw them out on pasture to hope they get better.

I purchase my ponies as yearlings/ 2 year olds (or even as the OP has a line on, green and ready to go) so I can purchase them for a cheaper price and then start to get them out to line shows and get the idea of showing. Does not have to be A shows, schooling shows are totally fine. Just the atmosphere and getting them out is a great start, great for video’s and sales promotion of course.

I tend to start my guys as 3 year olds lightly, maybe ride them around at a show in the fall, then start them over fences as a 4 year old, show them for the year at the 18" height (hey as an adult, I don’t mind doing the long stirrup division!) to put a good start on them and then sell them as a going, late 4 year old (w/t/c, changes, and going over small fences). I have been getting in the low/mid 5’s for my ponies and I’m able to keep them at home for better cost savings (though I sometimes board out for the winter months to keep or get them going, so that ups the cost a little, but its also my winter enjoyment). I’m just too scared to lease out and get something back all messed up - especially ponies of course.

I did do a free lease on one of my 4 coming 5 year old ponies over COVID as I didn’t have any kid riders for my medium - he was only adult ridden by me. He went to a great kids program (one that I actually do trust) and he got kid miles for the year and I sold him to one of their clients that fall. So it did help with his sale getting him out there and having real kid miles, but it was scary for me at first, I’m not going to lie. My husband wanted me to keep leasing him, but I refused to do so worried I would get a wrecked pony back. I was happy to sell him and not continue leasing him on though he has done really well with his kids and I probably could have leased him and made a lot more $ then just selling him as a 5 year old (this is now 4 years later and he’s showing well on the A’s in the medium division). My husband reminds me of this to this day still

This of course is just my $0.02. I’m not a pro, I have a teeny tiny little program (I’ve sold about 8 ponies over the years so far) and I only take on 1 sales pony at a time and can keep them for several years before I sell them on depending on how old they are when I purchase them.

[fordtraktor]

@mvp

I understand all of it except for the “free lease to their rider.” Why would I do that? If I can make him easy for a fat old lady to ride… because I AM a fat old lady… why would I give him to some other fat old lady to ride… for free?

I’ve done this, with a nice TB as well. The reason why is I had sold a nice horse that ended up having an unsuspected vetting issue that precluded him being sold for good money, so I took him back. I loaned him to a pro and she leased him out to her clients to do the 2’ and 2’6 hunters, and he did really well in that job (though he wasn’t holding up to higher level dressage from a different issue that didn’t bother him at all at lower levels). The trainer had experience managing the problem, and he was living the high life with her until an unfortunate paddock accident resulted in him breaking a leg.

I had no problem at all with her getting paid for leasing him out to her clients, I just wanted him to have a useful, happy life with her and he did.

It also helped that an old friend of mine had moved to her area and kept her horse there, so I got regular reports from a person I trusted.

It can work out in the right situation, but I think as an amateur it’s extremely hard to make money buying, selling, or leasing horses even when they are amazing. Trainers at A shows want to buy and sell from each other and they dissuade clients from buying directly from amateurs. it is what it is. I think it’s easier in dressage and eventing because there are more DIY-types.

[Impractical_Horsewoman]

I read the title of this thread, and my first thought, before reading the OP’s post, was to “get a pony, not a horse.” Several large and medium ponies circulated through the one show hunter barn I rode at, and like the pony you described, they weren’t big-time winners, just very reliable winners/packers on the local circuit. Safe, uncomplicated confidence builders. Also fun for older kids and petite riders like myself to lesson on in a pinch for the trainer.

Ponies have the advantage that the whole “should I lease or buy” question rarely pops up, since the pony leaser is intending to lease the pony until the kid outgrows the pony or leaves for college. In other words, there is a solid market of people who just want to lease.

[mroades]

It takes two years to “make” a horse…no matter who you are

[sassy]

I am in a similar scenario so I’ll chime in. I ride decently and would like to consider myself well-educated.

I bought a 3 year old OTTB ~18 months ago with the initial plan of selling him for a profit and upgrading to the next model. Figured at the very least I can make him up into a local 2’6 horse. I am now considering putting more miles on him and leasing him out instead.

He should finish right around 16.2ish, is a pretty bay gelding with chrome and has an ammy friendly disposition. Has the step to lope down the lines and does NOT care about the jumps or distance. Moves cute enough and wears his ears forward so that he gets a piece of the hack. I feel these are all very important and desirable characteristics. You’re going to have a much harder time leasing the 15.1 chestnut mare.

Since he’s turned out better than I anticipated, I don’t mind hanging onto him and putting the extra miles on to make him more of a packer. I think that’s a big part of it, especially if the horse is young. I have a pony who I’ve leased out for well over 10 years and his value is largely due to the fact that I put a lot of time and mileage on him. You can put anyone on him and he will cart them around 2’ and swap his leads. A horse that will do that at 2’6 is, in my experience, easily leased for $15-20k a year. Even a TB.

[hrlo_1722]

In my corner of the world, and especially considering the state of the economy, a 2’6" teacher packer is easily leased out for double that for a year. Sounds like you found a keeper! Keep us updated on him.

[Arzny]

I’m surprised at the responses saying breed does not matter for a lease horse. It absolutely does. I have a dream lease horse and on the rare occasion in the past that I needed to publicly advertise her, there were/are always trainers who pass on or will not consider her because she is TB.

[mvp]

@teatime0714

@McGurk

So it can be done, but it doesn’t mean it’s easily done. Being associated with the right show program that encourages leases and has students that need that type of horse is key, finding something sound and good minded is also key. Luck also plays a huge part.

Bolding is mine - this is 100% the key and what I hit on in my answer as well. You need access to the program that has these types of clients. These larger programs that have the setup to sell these types of leases to their clients seem to be disappearing more each year, with many transitioning to more boutique style show programs that aren’t running big (or sometimes any) lesson programs.

This is the part that I don’t have, if I am being honest. I have a pro or two here that I am friendly with, but I don’t think the connection is strong enough to have them do anything that is “hard” within their business for me.

Where I am, Aiken, it seems like there are a few pros who could use a horse like this. On the other hand, this isn’t a big “kid” town where you’d expect a constant supply of kids growing into- and out of horses.

[sassy]

Yep - the 2’6 attractive and kind warmblood packer is $30K+. Probably $50k+ TBH.

I can’t relate, clearly

[outside_leg]

@mvp

This is the part that I don’t have, if I am being honest. I have a pro or two here that I am friendly with, but I don’t think the connection is strong enough to have them do anything that is “hard” within their business for me

I cannot overstate how important that part is. I’m an amateur and I sell and lease horses regularly. Occasionally I market them on Facebook, but I’m most successful going out to my network. If you don’t have that, you are best working with a professional who does, and then your profit will be smaller.

I will also echo what others have said about the lease market. I am most successful leasing schoolmasters that people can step into the show ring day one and go have fun with. In my experience, people don’t want to lease green horses. I do see some juniors or occasional amateurs with no budgets offering to take a horse on the cuff (free lease) and put show miles on it. I’ve not personally found that to be worthwhile. As an amateur, I can put miles on the horses myself. And unfortunately, a number of kids and amateurs looking for this situation don’t have the skill set to put good miles on the horse. They’re more likely to miss, hurt a horse’s confidence, or encourage bad habits. That’s not universal, but it’s a real risk.

There is a market for a low dollar lease horse for kids coming off school horses or showing locally. But those are almost always done in-barn or through a trainer’s network.

Also, the breed bias against TBs is still very real in the lease market. The horses have to be twice as proven as a similar WB. They’d also better be 16.2+ and plump, because a lot of nice smaller TBs seem to sit on the market endlessly.

[fivestrideline]

@outside_leg

Also, the breed bias against TBs is still very real in the lease market. The horses have to be twice as proven as a similar WB. They’d also better be 16.2+ and plump, because a lot of nice smaller TBs seem to sit on the market endlessly.

This part is true. As is your point about the network!

I will say that IME breed doesn’t matter as much in an in-barn lease of a BTDT packer, if the program has a rotating door of clients that need that horse. It might matter a bit but not too much if the horse is known amongst local trainers as a good egg (takes a good record over time for this). Breed does matter if you’re marketing outside the barn/your network, and especially to more competitive show types.

Personally, I’ve had and seen too many leases go quite wrong, or been unhappy enough with the state the horse came back in that I would not lease my own horses off property. I’ve seen, despite ironclad contracts, disaster created by leases (lame, mind blown, rearing, can’t tie, bad for the farrier, etc) and I’ve seen smaller issues (poor muscling, bad shoeing, poor saddle fit and mild back soreness) often enough that I just don’t find the risk worth the reward. Perhaps if it’s leasing for $50k+++ but… not my scene. And my horses are too much like pets to ME to write it off as business. YMMV.

[NaturallyHappy]

@fivestrideline

Personally, I’ve had and seen too many leases go quite wrong, or been unhappy enough with the state the horse came back in that I would not lease my own horses off property. I’ve seen, despite ironclad contracts, disaster created by leases (lame, mind blown, rearing, can’t tie, bad for the farrier, etc) and I’ve seen smaller issues (poor muscling, bad shoeing, poor saddle fit and mild back soreness) often enough that I just don’t find the risk worth the reward. Perhaps if it’s leasing for $50k+++ but… not my scene. And my horses are too much like pets to ME to write it off as business. YMMV.

Someone else mentioned something similar. I, too, have seen it firsthand by trainers from whom I would have expected much better.

[Harriet1]

@fordtraktor

I’ve done this, with a nice TB as well. The reason why is I had sold a nice horse that ended up having an unsuspected vetting issue that precluded him being sold for good money, so I took him back. I loaned him to a pro and she leased him out to her clients to do the 2’ and 2’6 hunters, and he did really well in that job (though he wasn’t holding up to higher level dressage from a different issue that didn’t bother him at all at lower levels). The trainer had experience managing the problem, and he was living the high life with her until an unfortunate paddock accident resulted in him breaking a leg.

I had no problem at all with her getting paid for leasing him out to her clients, I just wanted him to have a useful, happy life with her and he did.

It also helped that an old friend of mine had moved to her area and kept her horse there, so I got regular reports from a person I trusted.

It can work out in the right situation, but I think as an amateur it’s extremely hard to make money buying, selling, or leasing horses even when they are amazing. Trainers at A shows want to buy and sell from each other and they dissuade clients from buying directly from amateurs. it is what it is. I think it’s easier in dressage and eventing because there are more DIY-types.

Your post caught my eye, as I am the happy owner of a very nice, well produced horse who failed vettings due to ugly X-rays. The horse is sound, but the X-rays are not great. I initially leased the horse for lower level competition, because the seller had worked with a pro to produce and then sell it as an investment project, then the failed vetting g happened, and I came along at just the right time. Leasing it was a good option for both myself and the seller. The pro who produced the horse set the whole thing up. After a year… I decided I really loved the horse… ugly X-rays and all… and made a low ball offer that took the bad films into account. The seller gladly accepted, as they wanted to get out of horses entirely.

I’m now two years into owning and competing this horse, and it’s still sound and motoring around. Never stops, never has a rail. A wonderful brain. So much fun to ride! I am careful with conditioning and maintenance, and what we ask of the horse. I will never ask it to jump more than 3 feet. So far… it’s one of the soundest horses I have ever owned, loves its job, and has been a great bargain.

If/when I want to do something different or jump higher, I will reach out to a few good friends who are pros, and lease my current horse. I’d only want to cover maintenance to keep it comfortable and happy until retirement. My pro friends have advised that it should be easy to cover costs, and I will probably make a little extra on top. It’s a very nice, slightly fancy, smaller packer. Perfect as a confidence building mount for female adult ammys, or teens who are moving up from ponies. Fancier than your average TB (it’s got a little Warmblood and Irish going on, along with some TB). It’s a winning BN & N eventer. But could also easily be a lovely 2’6” hunter. Such a good brain.

I’m fortunate to have a few pro friends I trust, and I am planning on just leasing the horse through them to one of their clients, when the time is right and I want to move on to a different mount. Less headache for me. They all know and love my horse. Sure… they will likely make some money out of it. But it seems easiest to just go through my network of pro friends to setup a lease, rather than trying to freelance myself and make it happen.

So I do understand the financial appeal of owning a good lease horse. However, I was fortunate enough to luck into mine, and to buy it outright for a very low price. Someone else had already spent a fair amount of time and money putting great training and show miles on it, before it failed a vetting. If someone wanted to turn an OTTB into a solid lease horse like this? It seems wise to pick a very ammy friendly type with a good brain that is suitable for teens coming off ponies or adult ammys. Then take 18 months to 2 years to produce it so that is truly solid in its job. Never stops, rarely spooks, never bucks, etc. Has changes. Can do a little bit of everything at the lower levels and be competitive. Finding something like this? Easier said than done. But… that’s pretty much the exact horse I am now fortunate enough to own.

[blondewithchrome]

@DiamondJubilee

For me, leasing scares the bejesus out of me. I have seen and heard of so many horses/ponies going into reputable programs and coming back soured, lame, improperly cared for etc, etc. Taking people 6 months- year to get them back into shape, feet corrected or never getting them back the same and having to throw them out on pasture to hope they get better.

This was my thought exactly reading this thread. My horse who is a lease superstar and had many kids he taught came back to me from his last lease skinny, dull, and lame, and as mentioned above yes it’ll take me every bit of a year to hopefully get him sound and happy again. But he won’t ever be the horse I sent to them which is just sad and heartbreaking. I won’t ever do it again no matter how appealing making up a lease horse sounds. It just isn’t worth the risk to me. Unfortunate, unless you have an in barn hook up with a trainer you know and trust to keep horse in his/her program year over year, the gamble is just too high for me.

[hrlo_1722]

My current horse owes me nothing, but my hopeful plan is that he will be leased out for a year or two for around that number as a 2-2’6 packer and hopefully fund my search for a 3’ horse. I didn’t buy him with that intention, and I may never make it to the 3’+, but he would be perfect for that job.

[akhunterrider]

I’m a slightly above-average riding, late 30s adult amateur who half leases a TB from another ammy in my barn. I have 2 human children (4 and 6), so I don’t have tons of time to ride. Usually 2 to 3 days a week. My trainer oversees the lease, but the contract was made between the owner and I. The horse is 14, has previously shown at the level I ride at, has an automatic lead change, will ride out on the trail alone or in a group. She’s 100% the horse I would like to own, but also not the horse I can afford to purchase. She also has kissing spines that require joint injections every 10-12 months on average. I am not sure how well she would hold up to more than her current part time job. I don’t cover all of her bills, but I cover a certain percentage and have eyes on her regularly. YMMV, but some owners aren’t looking to offload all costs, depending on what their plans with the horse are. Her owner has ridden once in the past 10 or so months, but is welcome to come ride at any time that works for her. I got lucky to find this situation and there are a few similar situations in the barn currently. This horse probably wouldn’t appeal to just anyone because she can be a bit spicy, but she’s a good girl and it works well for me at the point I am at in my life.

[SLW]

My great niece’s parents leased a 15.3 warmblood mare, 13 years old, who needed to step down from 3/3’6” competitions.

I don’t understand all the divisions out there now but my great niece was doing 2’ and 2’6” short/long stirrup classes and pre Hunter or something like that in Aiken & Tryon. Anyway, nice looking mare, a packer and they paid 20K to lease for a year. All board, vet & farrier work was the families responsibility. They use a trainer who is in a network of likeminded trainers so no worry about the mare being overused.

[hrlo_1722]

Are you me? This is my exact situation as well. “Gnarly” was the word used to describe a flex, but he’s never had a foot wrong and is a perfect under 3ft packer. Would love to hear about your experience if/when you do lease yours out.