Cremello warmblood stallions

[Texarkana]

My mare has a RPSI half sister by Mirabeau.

I only saw the filly in person when she was a foal, but her owner sought me out through social media and I’ve gotten to watch her over the years through pictures and videos online.

She is the most interesting sooty palomino color. Temperament-wise, she seems like a 10+, especially considering the dam had a challenging temperament and my own mare’s temperament is twice as challenging.

The palomino mare is quite small and refined; the dam was only 15h, and based on pictures, the daughter can’t be any taller than that (my own mare is 16.2h, but was by a larger stallion). However, a lot of things can influence height besides just the sire.

[MysticOakRanch]

@pluvinel

Like I said earlier, I engaged in a conversation to understand his logic…NOT to argue with him…

I was just passing on the comment FOR INFO, as the OP was looking only for color.

The point being that at least one breeder had an opinion on performance vs color.

But, not based on reality. The few cremellos I’ve seen have all had good brains - in the Iberian world. Saphiro is known for being a kind horse - juniors have competed on him. The link I added for the cremello pony - several people have commented on his good brain (and good movement). I also know someone with a cremello QH - kindest, gentlest animal you could imagine. Personally, I agree they are a bit creepy looking - but from a breeding standpoint, they “make sense” if you want color.

Putting an animal down based solely on its color (and on someone’s horribly incorrect opinion) is just cruel. It has nothing to do with putting performance first.

And - he must be breeding for color - to get a cremello, there must be at least ONE dilute gene from each parent - that in itself is pretty unusual, and pretty much guarantees the breeder is breeding for color.

I won’t mention Hitler:eek:

[soloudinhere]

@Manni01

I wouldn’t breed for color either and this is not my dream horse, but he is a very very nice horse and he is cremello and he was doing I1. So I think that is a bit competitive… So I don’t agree 100% with your post I just needed to defend this guy because I met him personally at my foal inspection
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E8m6NGAtuK0

This horse is no longer alive as far as I know, and none of his fancy colored progeny have done much. Limet Hurry earned his owner her Silver, but getting 60s to get a silver is not the same as getting mid-70s to qualify for regionals or finals at that level, which is what I mean by competitive.

[Equibrit]

@alibi_18

This is not a breeding program… it’s stupidity.

He crosses horses that have the potential to create cremello foals… then kills them… If that’s not being crazy… Like, it’s quite easy NOT to breed for cremello if he truly was looking for performance only horses…

And you know what, If he really was breeding for performance, he wouldn’t care about the color… So in a sense, he is breeding for color… What a moron.

That you found this conversation interesting is baffling because there is no logic in this.

He just kill horses based on their color.

It’s like whirls theories or white legs theories… this is just BS…

Sounds like a Hitler breeding operation to me…

Don’t worry, I won’t comment on this no more… It just shows why we usually don’t agree on most everything.

Does this venom spewing just make you feel better ?

[Manni01]

@alibi_18

Soloudinhere didn’t say cremello horses weren’t competitive but that they were ugly so would conscientiously not breed one. Fair.

Soloud would not breed for color either. But I doubt that if there was ever a mistake, the poor cremello foal wouldn’t be killed for not being the right color.

sure?? I think he is simply promoting ponies in order to produce a cremello, which is of course a lot easier because there you have a solid base of Ponies bred through by good breeders and you can just use them without much risk…

But a pony is not for everybody (I love them but there are people which are simply too tall to ride them)

And the OP did not ask for a pony stallion but a Warmbloodstallion. And both of the ones mentioned go back to Marduc who was an amazing stallion who would certainly improve any horse. So even Mirabeau would probably be a good choice because I think there is Marduc in him twice and on the video he looked like a nice mover and its not his fault that he did not receive much dressage training.
And as far as I am concerned the OP asked for a Cremello Stallion for her Chestnut TB mare. So I am sure she is not looking for an Olympic horse… So why not Mirabeau?? or still ask Equivale if they know somebody (Obviously they do breed Cremellos and Palominos so They might have some insight…)

But I apologize of course Ponies are the thing to go.

[Manni01]

@soloudinhere

This horse is no longer alive as far as I know, and none of his fancy colored progeny have done much. Limet Hurry earned his owner her Silver, but getting 60s to get a silver is not the same as getting mid-70s to qualify for regionals or finals at that level, which is what I mean by competitive.

Do you know the OP?? Does she want to go to Regionals with that horse??

[soloudinhere]

@Manni01

Do you know the OP?? Does she want to go to Regionals with that horse??

I asked what she wanted the horse to do besides be a pretty color - the OP hasn’t returned to inform us.

[Horsesports]

I have two geldings sired by Raleighs Full Moon at http://www.moonrocksporthorses.com/

Their dam was Arab and although he is a Quarter Horse he does produce beautiful babies. Mine are both very dressage suitable. Both have very trainable minds and love their people.

Their damn was dark bay and both of my geldings are buckskins. But you can see from his web site he makes some pretty nice palominos also.

[alibi_18]

@Equibrit

Does this venom spewing just make you feel better ?

In fact, it did.

Do you think it is a valid breeding practice to kill perfectly sound and normal animals?

If this breeder doesn’t want cremello in his cheptel, couldn’t he just entirely avoid breeding them? It’s not like it would be super difficult… Cremello is an unusual color. There are plenty of ways to get performance horses without that specific color… Soloudinhere is a perfect example!

Do you believe paint breeders should kill their solid-colored offsprings as they don’t fit in their patterned breeding program?

[alibi_18]

@Manni01

sure?? I think he is simply promoting ponies in order to produce a cremello, which is of course a lot easier because there you have a solid base of Ponies bred through by good breeders and you can just use them without much risk…

You are right, but Soloudinhere just said, like you stated here, that there are better chances of finding a talented cremello pony than a horse.

Who knows what the OP wants anyway and what the mare to be bred looks like.

If the mare is +17h, the pony who would climb the ladder could potentially produce a +15h horse! :lol:

[oppsfelldown]

@alibi_18

In fact, it did.

Do you think it is a valid breeding practice to kill perfectly sound and normal animals?

If this breeder doesn’t want cremello in his cheptel, couldn’t he just entirely avoid breeding them? It’s not like it would be super difficult… Cremello is an unusual color. There are plenty of ways to get performance horses without that specific color… Soloudinhere is a perfect example!

Do you believe paint breeders should kill their solid-colored offsprings as they don’t fit in their patterned breeding program?

it was an unspoken thing back in the 80s for paint and appy breeders to put down solid foals.

[soloudinhere]

@alibi_18

In fact, it did.

Do you think it is a valid breeding practice to kill perfectly sound and normal animals?

If this breeder doesn’t want cremello in his cheptel, couldn’t he just entirely avoid breeding them? It’s not like it would be super difficult… Cremello is an unusual color. There are plenty of ways to get performance horses without that specific color… Soloudinhere is a perfect example!

Do you believe paint breeders should kill their solid-colored offsprings as they don’t fit in their patterned breeding program?

In an era where there are more unwanted horses than there are homes, humanely disposing of any animal you can’t assure a safe future for would arguably be the humane thing to do. I realize I am in the minority on this one, but if you produce a foal that is for whatever reason “undesireae” I think it is very naive to assume that it will stay in good hands forever. That won’t be the case for the vast majority of horses.

I’m not saying that I agree with the practice of deliberately breeding with a known undesired outcome, but there is a very strong tendency in the color breeding world to use double dilutes because they GUARANTEE color. For example, my buckskin filly has a full sister who is red bay, from a bay mare and a palomino stallion (single dilute, obviously). She and her full brother are both buckskin. Using a double dilute guarantees you won’t get a “plain” colored foal, even with plain mares, so many breeders take the risk for getting a double dilute even if that color is, IME, less desireable on resale than a single dilute color which is VERY popular. Obviously you could do the same thing breeding a single dilute mare to a “non color” stallion and avoid cremello, but you also decrease the chances of producing color.

[Virginia_Horse_Mom]

Mitril is another option. Czech Warmblood… Kinsky lines, and some Holsteiner lines too. I believe he did 70 day stallion testing and was approved book 1 for RPSI/Westfalen. If you are trying to breed for Dressage though, I’m not so sure he’s a great fit. Seems like he has jumping talent, could produce a nice all around type, and possibly an eventer with a good TB mare. Maybe not the best bet if you’re looking for straight Dressage.

The same farm also stands another Czech Warmblood… Sagar. I do not think he was approved book 1 by RPSI though. I have no idea why though - might be something to do with age when imported and performance record. He is quite interesting though - Alme sire line I believe. Looks like he might produce something better suited for jumping than Dressage too though.

Just my useless two cents - I’d love to hear more about both these guys, what they produce, and what to make of Czech horses in general. They’re interesting.

Saphiro is another thought. Maybe a better option if you’re after a Dressage horse with a good brain. I’d be curious as to how he would cross on a TB mare though… I have no clue whether that’s done often, or does not work out great in terms of two different conformation types.

[Virginia_Horse_Mom]

Whoops… went back and double checked their website. Mitril is the one with the Alme sire line, Sagar has the Holsteiner in his pedigree (Landgraf).

[khall]

Crossing TB with Lusitano or Andalusian is done often and can make a very nice horse. Flattens out the “action” of the iberian some. I have a Saphiro filly out of a Han/TB mare. Yes getting a buckskin was part of the equation for me breeding to him, but I just like the stallion, wanted to breed to an Iberian but did not want to breed to a grey. Loved his temperament and his conformation and movement were a good fit for my mare. I LOVE my filly, conformation wise hard to fault her (could have a bit more bone) movement wise I am extremely pleased with how she moves, enough knee action to be fun but not trappy at all. Temperament so far seems to be what I was looking for. Sensitive and more forward than my WBs but a head full of sense. Now her dam was sensitive but sensible, so she could be channeling them both. Much much better canter than her dam which that along with better neck set was what I most wanted to correct and I got both corrections with my filly and a gorgeous buttermilk buckskin as a big bonus!

[Virginia_Horse_Mom]

@khall - cool! Thanks for sharing about how the cross worked Sounds like you ended up with a wonderful riding horse.

[Scribbler]

@khall

Crossing TB with Lusitano or Andalusian is done often and can make a very nice horse. Flattens out the “action” of the iberian some. I have a Saphiro filly out of a Han/TB mare. Yes getting a buckskin was part of the equation for me breeding to him, but I just like the stallion, wanted to breed to an Iberian but did not want to breed to a grey. Loved his temperament and his conformation and movement were a good fit for my mare. I LOVE my filly, conformation wise hard to fault her (could have a bit more bone) movement wise I am extremely pleased with how she moves, enough knee action to be fun but not trappy at all. Temperament so far seems to be what I was looking for. Sensitive and more forward than my WBs but a head full of sense. Now her dam was sensitive but sensible, so she could be channeling them both. Much much better canter than her dam which that along with better neck set was what I most wanted to correct and I got both corrections with my filly and a gorgeous buttermilk buckskin as a big bonus!

Yes, I also was going to say that a TB crossed with an Iberian can make a very nice horse. In many case IMHO a nicer horse than a mediocre TB mare bred to a local warmblood.

[Equibrit]

@alibi_18

In fact, it did.

Do you think it is a valid breeding practice to kill perfectly sound and normal animals?

If this breeder doesn’t want cremello in his cheptel, couldn’t he just entirely avoid breeding them? It’s not like it would be super difficult… Cremello is an unusual color. There are plenty of ways to get performance horses without that specific color… Soloudinhere is a perfect example!

Do you believe paint breeders should kill their solid-colored offsprings as they don’t fit in their patterned breeding program?

The person you should be treating to your venom is not on this board, and I doubt that anybody here shares his opinions. So why bother?

[alibi_18]

@Equibrit

The person you should be treating to your venom is not on this board, and I doubt that anybody here shares his opinions. So why bother?

Are you the venom spewing police?

I did find upsetting that someone would even consider that « breeding program » interesting, and I expressed myself, but that is all.

No one is forcing you to read whatever crap I decide to write… :winkgrin:

[J-Lu]

@pluvinel

He didn’t “breed them” on purpose.

But if a cross produced a cremello, the horse was put down. This breeder had very particular breeding goals for performance, NOT color. Apparently in his experience the cremello’s did not measure up to his standards.

No need to be insulting. His breeding. HIs program. His horses.

I found our conversations very interesting. I don’t know if I agreed with all his logic, but one always learns something by talking with someone with a large breeding program.

How incredibly sad that a breeder believes this.

My jr. jumper was a cremello, he could jump the moon and was really honest.