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Cribber from Hell -- How to Keep Him from Flooding His Stall?

Horse Care
#1

So I’m boarding the cribber from hell. I want to start out by saying that I love the horse and the family so kicking him out is not an option. So the big issue is that this guy started cribbing on his automatic waterer. I removed it before he could break it off the wall and now he is cribbing ferociously on his water buckets. He is absolutely flooding his stall from all the water sloshing about, and one night he actually broke the bucket side off. I need suggestions for how to keep this guy in water!

So what we’ve done:

  1. Looked at by vet and is currently being treated for ulcers (omeprazole, ratinidine, and sucralfate). Two weeks in and it hasn’t put a dent in his cribbing. I must say that he looks like an ulcery horse – poor coat, a little thin, nervousy. I’m hoping all the meds help him look and feel better, even if it does nothing for the cribbing.
  2. At vet’s recommendation, switched him to senior feed (3lb twice a day) and beet pulp.
  3. Free choice orchard grass hay with about 5lb of alfafa hay fed with both grain meals
  4. He’s had every kind of cribbing collar known to man. The Dare collar worked best, but we had to keep it so tight that it put a nasty lesion on his head. So no more collars.
  5. He stays out on grass turnout for as long as possible. Right now he’s coming in at night because of the cold. He does not wear a collar outside. He has a “cribbing station” by the water trough. Unfortunately, leaving him out 24/7 is not an option.
  6. We tried putting a muzzle on in the stall, but he’s figured out how to crib through it.

So basically, I’m looking for a way to keep water in his stall. Tonight, I’m going to try using a muck bucket half filled for water to maybe keep him from sloshing everywhere. I’d love to find a way to reduce his cribbing, but I think that may be impossible. I’ve never seen a horse that cribs as badly as this one. There’s no where for him to really crib in his stall besides the water buckets, and I’m not sure how to set up a cribbing station in this type of barn (metal vertical bars on all walls including door).

Thanks for any help you can offer.

#2
  • Hang the buckets too high or low for him to crib
  • Build a box or basket around the water buckets to give him another edge to crib on other than the bucket lip
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#3

Cribbing is an external manifestation of internal stress, which you’ve already apparently noted given his poor condition. That doesn’t necessarily mean “something is wrong with his guts”…the vast majority of horses with hard-wired stereotypies like this are mentally/emotionally fried for a variety of reasons, but the cribbing becomes habit even after the stressor is gone.

Anything you do is just going to be a stopgap measure, a Band-Aid. It will not actually fix the long term issue of why he’s cribbing.

What is the reason for why he can’t be out 24/7? Lack of facilities? I would honestly start there - get him out of a stall, continue the free-choice forage and feed program you’ve got him on.

It’s a seriously troubled horse that will crib through multiple collars and muzzles and to the point of causing skin lesions. :no:

1 Like
#4

While I agree with the other posters, the easiest thing I found to manage a dedicated cribber was to nail a cribbing post 2x4 in the stall and have them crib there. Way less damaging than cribbing on buckets, or the fence-line… Most cribbers prefer that to the water buckets. You can find a way to make it work.

The other thing we did, is fed everything from the ground - grain, hay - and water was supplied in the stall by a 15g water tub, not a bucket. We fastened it into the wall by screw eye, so he couldn’t knock it down easily.

I would suggest that he see as much turnout as you can manage… and try to push the family into accepting that 24/7 might be his best bet.

What exactly is his hay situation? “Free choice hay at both meals” is not, to me, free choice hay - sounds like he just gets a lot of flakes with AM/PM grain? Is a roundbale feasible?

Generally, I’ve found the really serious cribbers crib much less when:

  • they are 100% bodily sound (this is really important)
  • they always have hay in front of them - roundbale is the only way to guarantee that - “free choice” is just a buzzword
  • 24/7 pasture & roundbale access
  • plenty of grain
  • never see isolation (AKA always turned out with another horse)/in a herd environment/buddy
  • access to grass
  • no restrictive collar/prohibitive flavored gunk in their stall/no anti-cribbing

I will say I think that even though cribbing can become hard-wired, it’s something that tends to pop up when something in the management is lacking and when you deny the horse the ability to crib, I think it gets worse. It could be anything - (not your management) maybe their riding times are stressful, or they have something physical bothering them, or maybe they recently moved, or their friend moved away, their dietary needs aren’t being met, their outdoor needs aren’t being met, etc.

I think you and his owners are on the right track pursuing ulcers, but try to see if you can wiggle in more time outside, time with a buddy, and as much grass as possible. I would take the cribbing collar off permanently and see if you can’t find a turnout situation that works better for him.

There is really no way to “cure” cribbing, in my experience, without being willing to try full turnout/herd/roundbale situation. Asking for help on a forum but then rejecting the most proven/quantified solution isn’t going to do him many favors. To my knowledge there isn’t anything besides 24/7 turnout and being as much like a horse as possible to remedy cribbing.

4 Likes
#5

As far as 24/7 turnout – I turn everything out 24/7 when the weather is good. I have run in sheds for pasture boarders, which he went to like a beaver. So he can’t go out with that crowd, and I don’t have anything that could suffer in the cold with him without shelter. So right now he’s out from 8am to 5pm on grass, with a small herd, with plenty of roundbales.

I’ll add more info about him tonight. my next lesson just showed up. Thanks for advice so far. I’m worried that this level of cribbing is a sign of a major problem, but I just don’t know what to do.

1 Like
#6

I have a dedicated cribber who lives outside mostly 24/7 – but when he’s in his stall he stands behind a webbing and crossbar (racetrack style) and LOVES to crib on his crossbar. Something about the movement, height and feel of it he really likes. I’m in the 'If you can’t beat 'em, join 'em club’ when it comes to cribbers. Provide an enjoyable thing for them to crib on and it will be their go-to object.

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#7

I’m guessing you don’t have doors for them to hang their heads into the aisle (or he would be cribbing on the edge?) but hanging the water bucket outside of the stall is an option if you do have that sort of setup, or can arrange it. He could drink but not get the right angle to crib.

Sounds like you’re doing everything right–lotsa hay, low carb feed, few nice friends, covering him from the ulcer angle…hopefully he slows down a bit for you!

If he continues, could you cover every available edge of one run in with angle iron or chew guard and leave him out? Is the only reason he can’t be out full time because he gnaws on the shed?

1 Like
#8

Give him something better to crib on! And maybe water in a fortiflex rubber with no handle on the floor???

#9

I’ll definitely put a crib bar in his stall. I have one in his field. I don’t know why my slow little brain didn’t think to put one in his stall.

So far so good on watering him out of a muck bucket instead of actual water buckets. I feed his grain on the floor. I currently have his hay in nets – how I guarantee they have hay all night long. They all get enough nets so that there is plenty of hay left in the AM. Right now he is eating a little under 20lb of hay at night (15lb orchard and 5lb alfalfa. I’ll start feeding that on the ground as well to see if that makes a difference.

For your checklist.

  1. Body soundness – He has slight navicular in the front feet (and only 6 y/o…). He’s in special shoes which are being monitored with vet/farrier. He seems comfortable – no signs of lameness. I do think he is ulcery and I’m sure that is painful. He seems a little less anxious with the ulcer meds. He’s been on them for a little over a week.
  2. Hay in stall is in nets so it lasts all night. I have roundbales outside as well which he seems to be eating off of well (he makes a track – eats for a few minutes, and then goes a cribs for a few minutes).
  3. I can’t give him 24/7 turnout right now, but he will have 24/7 turnout spring/summer/fall, barring severe weather. Right now the best I can do for him is form 8am-5pm.
  4. I’ve got him on the grain and amount the vet wants. Also lots of beet pulp and I soak all of it as the vet said that soaking the feed can help.
  5. He’s out with two of my golden oldies. They all seem to get on well. And he can see and touch noses through the stall. I had him out with younger horses at first, but he was getting bullied.
  6. I’ve given up on collars and muzzles at this point. This guy goes right through them. His owners were using some type of spray when he came, but I nixxed that as it was beyond disgusting.

He is ridden 3/4 times of week, and very casually. Mainly just bumbling about the arena or outside. I haven’t noticed anything that I would consider stressful.

He moved here about 6 months ago, and was able to be out all the time (only coming in for storms) until after Christmas when the temperatures dropped. He was cribbing like a fiend outside as well though. He came from a western QH barn that did the high end breed shows so he’s had a hard childhood. Stalled 24/7. Periodic hay and oats feedings. Hard training sessions with a woman who sounds semi-abusive from what I can gather. I’m not western, so I don’t really “get” what they were doing, but it sounded very rough and hard. I was hoping that he’d be happier settling into our place, and the cribbing would lessen. His owners say that he is the most mellow and personable that he’s ever been since they’ve had him. But I still haven’t got it right yet. He’s not a happy horse, and he doesn’t look like a fully healthy horse either. I have another cribber on the property who I’ve been able to manage with good turnout and hay – he now only cribs during feedings and during storms. Maybe this guy needs more time?

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#10

No. We have sliding doors with metal bars (MD barn if that helps).

Yes. He attacked my run in shed like a beaver on crack, which is why I really don’t want to leave him out there for the winter. What would you recommend for covering up the edges? I think he’ll just keep cribbing on metal guards. Wouldn’t that be horrible for his teeth?

#11

OP, you sound like a wonderful, thoughtful DM or BO. I think you’re on the right track, just give it more time and continue to be open minded at meeting his needs.

7 Likes
#12

You might consider feeding his grain out of a bucket hung in the stall. My guy cribs and his feed bucket is his go to spot - I have to replace the bucket every so often once he rips it but he leaves his water buckets alone and only sucks on the rubber feed bucket. It makes it easy for me because I just take that bucket to the shows with me and it keeps him happy to have his pacifier.

#13

Have you tried a stall mate? Sometimes a small goat or even a chicken helps…

#14

Have they tried putting him on any pain meds for his navicular to see if that’s what’s bothering him?

You can get a bucket edge ring that helps them from cribbing on buckets. You are doing all you can to help them out. Many BO’s would tell to hit the road.

#15

I believe he was on a round of bute when they changed up the shoeing, but that was several months ago. He has a follow up appointment for the ulcers next Monday. I’ll ask about the front feet again.

#16

No. He can see/touch his bff through the stall wall. And he cribs like this when he outside with his little herd too. But I’ll use any excuse to get a baby goat!!

1 Like
#17

So the muck but ket waterer worked. Thank God… And my weekend project is installing a crib bar in the corner for this guy.

Has anyone had a cribber go through ulcer treatment? How long did it take to see improvement? We’re at day 10, with 20 more days. He seems a little calmer, but still doesn’t look comfortable/happy. He has another vet appointment on Monday.

#18

For some horses, cribbing becomes a stereotypic behavior and there’s really nothing you can do to eliminate it. The endorphins it releases outweigh any other behaviors the horse can perform - including eating, playing, touching noses with buddies, etc.

Saying that, you don’t indicate what omeprazole the horse is being administered. This is one case were I’d consider shelling out the money for the full Merial Ulcergard/Gastrogard treatment for at least 2 weeks so you know the horse is getting the correct dose in a proven buffer. And I’d double check that the order and timing you are administering the different ulcer meds is the best regimen and they are not inhibiting each other. There are a few posters on this board that have had horses with ulcers that have a bacterial component and had to go to antibiotic treatments as well to clear them up, so scoping might be in your future.

#19

Do you have plans for follow up supplement after the ulcer treatment? Depending on the financials of the owner, I have seen Succeed do miracles on more than a few horses. I have heard the Smart Digest or whatever it is from Smartpak works well too, but haven’t tried it.

#20

From what you have mentioned, it sounds to me like a possible trigger for this horse could be potential discomfort/unsoundness with his work, which as a BM, may not be something you can control. I really do think a good chunk of horses that crib, do so because they’re sore somewhere. To expand on that, I will also say that horses that I have seen scoped for ulcers, and have had bad ulcers (barring those that just came from major rehabilitation or operations/antibiotics), have also had niggling NQR soundness issues that the owners struggled with for a bit before ulcers appeared… which makes me think sometimes, there is a significant correlation between the arrival of ulcers and a possible physical cause.

I saw a few flags in your post (not from you, specifically) that reminded me of one of the worst cribbers I ever took care of - I actually made a thread about him just like you. I tried so hard to make his life as pain-free as possible, but his owner threw a huge wrench in everything because she did not want him to have more than 2-4hrs of turnout a day, her excuse being he ripped shoes off acting up… and he did act up in the paddock, because he never got to burn excess energy and spent 2/3rds of his day in a stall… as a young horse… Anyway, his owner really proved to me that no matter how much $$$$ & treatment you throw at a horse’s ulcers, if you aren’t willing to change the horse’s lifestyle, those ulcers come back in full force. Treating for ulcers does very little to ensure the horse’s condition is ulcer-free permanently - and being without ulcers is never a permanent condition. I know a lot of people who treat, see minor improvement, but don’t change the management/lifestyle of the horse and then a year or so down the road are right back in the tree they barely climbed out of.

The point being is that ulcers do not spontaneously spring up – they are a Hansel & Gretel breadcrumb trail that something has gone on, recent or otherwise, that has had an adverse affect on the horse. Which you probably know, but most owners don’t.

Is he reactive in any way? Pain anywhere, as in his back?

A six year old with navicular, to me, suggests there might be a lot physically going on with this horse… not necessarily my (or your) call to say he should not be ridden, but looking back on the horse I mentioned above, who at the time was also six – he had just about everything wrong with him from his pasterns down… pedal osteitis & navicular up front… and while he was not lame as in limping, I personally never thought he was comfortable with the work asked of him. His owner and vet thought he was fine for the work intended (paralleli stuff, 5 days a week of lunging type work). The few times I was asked to work him, I couldn’t bring myself to do anything but hand-walk him in the indoor as I genuinely thought he was hurting everywhere which is why his lameness seemed subtle, since it was not just one leg, but all of them. He was absolutely rank to deal with and I think so much of it was because he had undiagnosed physical discomfort (everywhere, I think).

It can be very frustrating too when you might have all the horse needs to feel better available to you, but the owners won’t play dice.

Good luck. I agree with Allons-y, and think this horse and his owners are lucky to have you.

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