Cribbing collar causing soreness and maybe bridle issues?

[zelle]

Hi I hope it’s ok to put this in Eventing. I want to talk with my peeps about this issue that might or might not be related to a cribbing collar. 2 years ago I saved a 7 yo OTTB who was underweight and footsore on 4 feet. I didn’t have a choice in the matter, it was my responsibility to save 3 horses that day. I was the only one in a position to do it. I would never ever choose to own a cribber.
Anyway, this little guy is a very sweet and manageable little dude even now that he’s totally sound and up to a nice weight. It was impossible to get him to gain weight without the collar. He’s in a DARE collar. He would rather crib than eat. He has to have it very tight (if his head is at a normal height)
His one very tricky riding issue is that he seems terrified of contact. He will avoid it by holding his head high, flipping his face, running away if he’s already cantering. He’s not trying to go fast, he’s just trying to outrun pressure. A skilled rider can slow him down with no pressure but it takes time. And since he accepts zero contact, his dressage is pretty hopeless. Show jumping not so fun either.

While trimming a bridle path the other day I noticed he’s very sore to the touch up there. Will not allow me to touch. It reminded me of his response to the bit.

My question is - could the two things be related? I don’t know what he’s like when he hasn’t been in a collar because he was so lame for months after I got him. (Feet living in dew, unshod, uncared for) They didn’t have a collar on him of course. I’m not willing to try going without a collar because I think that’s possibly worse. He won’t eat.

Can anyone tell me if a snaffle bridle could create enough discomfort at his very sore poll area to make him fear and reject the bit? (He’s been seen and treated by a dentist DVM every six months to restore his mouth -which is now healthy - and this has not changed his behavior). Bits have been tried. I own 100’s. I lean always to the softest. The Cook beta bitless didn’t change anything, either. Chiropractic and Bemer hasn’t helped. So I’m now looking for an answer about the soreness at the pill being the culprit.

Thank you in advance for your wisdom on this issue.

[cayuse]

I’m going to assume he was treated for ulcers including hindgut ones? Ulcers can make cribbing so much worse depending on the individual. And my hunch would be that yes, the collar is contributing to the soreness, either causing it or exacerbating an issue in the area that’s already established. Can he have 24/7 turnout? Just turn him out without the collar and see what you get after a few weeks? Maybe get neck x-rays too.

[NancyM]

Owning a cribber isn’t a big deal. It’s an equine addiction. The horse has an “addictive personality”. They tend to often be “sensitive”… and that’s OK. They need a “crutch” to get through life, many humans are like that too, but can still be good humans. Just the same with horses. To increase pressure on an addict, forcibly remove his addiction.

If you want to try your cribber without a strap, go ahead and do it. Give it a try. Most cribbers will “self regulate” their cribbing. Your horse may have any number of issues that are causing a problem, cribbing is only one of these things. It may not be THE thing.
I’ve had many cribbers in the many decades of horse ownership. I got over having it bother me. I got over putting cribbing straps on everything. My current cribber is a home bred TB. She never raced, she’s far too sensitive for that. She started cribbing as a foal, out in the field with her mother and pasture/age mates. She has always carried good weight, and has no health issues related to her cribbing (other than tooth wear). She is a super sensitive type, an over achiever. She jumps well. I would NEVER let any other rider on her back, it wouldn’t go well. This horse has never worn a cribbing strap. A cribbing strap would be a waste of time with her, because she does not pull from her throat, she pulls the air down from her CHEST. Her cribbing muscle is on her CHEST. What has really helped with tooth wear has been using a huge rubber tire feeder (home made) for her hay, out in her paddock. She mostly uses that to crib on, which has reduced the amount of tooth wear on her upper incisors. There are no other health issues related to her cribbing. She cribs at will. She cribs a lot. She’s 24 years old this year, and looks great.

Your horse may have other health issues which you are unaware of, unrelated to the cribbing. Get a good veterinarian involved.

[RedHorses]

The Cooks bit less bridle would put more pressure on the poll, which suggests it’s more likely to be his sore poll than the bit.

However, if you decide to test the theory by leaving the collar off until his poll is better, don’t expect a different reaction to the bit. He has learned the contact means pain, and that flipping his head and running faster makes things better for him. It’s very likely going to be an automatic response.

If his weight is good, I’d try leaving the collar off and see if his poll gets better. Then try riding in a halter and see how he responds.

[zelle]

Hi thank you for your response. Yes he absolutely can have 24/7 turnout. He just won’t eat if he can crib. And he cribs on anything and everything . I tried that in his current 16 hour daily turn out but he lost too much weight. Been down the ulcer rabbit hole too. Now just hoping for feedback about poll pain.

[fivestrideline]

The Dare collar sits a bit back from the poll vs other cribbing straps. I can’t say I’d rule it out as the issue, but I think you’re likely to have something else going on. A lot of bridle sensitive horses are actually struggling with hind end issues, IME. Stifle injections and hind shoes have fixed head flippers more than once for me.

You could try a cribbing muzzle instead of a collar, or get the horse outside somewhere he can’t crib. Though I’ve had one crib on vertical posts when we’d blocked off all the horizontal surfaces . Cribbing itself puts a lot of torque on the poll and TMJ, so I’m not exactly sure it’s JUST the collar that could be the root of the poll soreness.

ETA: the bitless bridle puts a lot of pressure on the poll, so I imagine he wouldn’t like that. You could try a war bridle, one of the bridles that stay way back off the poll, or a Boucher plus a poll relief bridle. Even a flat halter would take the pressure off the poll - but you’ve got to have a lot of trust in the horse for that! Back on Track makes a poll pad that might help warm the area too.

[zelle]

Huh. Thank you for the halter thought. The other day I lunged him in a halter and he just looked so nice and relaxed and balanced all three gaits. Kept a hunter like frame. I hadn’t considered riding in a halter! Scary to think about un- collaring him - maybe I can crib proof the stall to some extent. I was also thinking of seeing if he could be managed in a neck rope.

[Simkie]

Can you hot wire everything he can crib on rather than keep a collar on him? I know it’s an effort but removing cribbing surfaces really is a nice way to manage cribbers.

Another option is the Barclay collar. It doesn’t need to be tight to work.

[zelle]

Thank you! What kind of hind shoes helped your head flippers? Concave? I had him in a dressage clinic and she said I should keep a horse like this because a powerful hind end like his is very rare. To me it’s a disadvantage because he tends to jump over his front end. I can’t set a single bounce or he’ll see it as an oxer. Even if it’s explained over and over again at the walk and trot. If cantering - it’s an easy 10 foot wide xrail oxer (unless I set a few in a row) So maybe yeah - he doesn’t want to sit… Can that be stifle? I did one pretty thorough lameness exam several months ago and my pro-injection lameness vet didn’t find enough to warrant anything. But in my experience, stifles are often not indicated even when injections there ended up being very useful.

[Pepsy]

Maybe check to make sure horse is getting adequate minerals, particularly selenium, in his diet. Apparently there is a link cribbing-low selenium. You mentioned he came to you in bad physical shape. Good Luck

[zelle]

Simkie, thank you. I had not seen that one. I just ordered a Barclay collar.

[zelle]

Pepsy, thank you. This is worth trying. I have a few others on nanoE.

[zelle]

NancyM, I love your style. And I feel a kinship with sensitive mare riders. The rubber suggestion is very interesting . I didn’t feel like he was self regulating enough not to be quite ribby. It’s worth a re-exploration.

[cayuse]

posted in error, sorry!

[luvmyhackney]

Usually horses crib to self soothe whatever anxiety or pain they have.

Has he had any chiro or teeth work? TMJ issues?

The not wanting to sit would have me looking at hind end issues.

[Pico_Banana]

I have a fairly dedicated cribber who I just let crib as he does maintain weight. I have observed that it’s a combo of stress and habit with him.

Maybe try switching up the type of cribbing collar so as not to have pressure in exactly the same spots?

Also, I have eliminated all cribbing surfaces in his stall so when he’s in there, he doesn’t crib. Could be a good way to give yours a break from the collar?

And then maybe think about doing some gentle stretching. Bill Masterson has a lateral cervical stretch that I’ve been doing lately with two of my horses. You have to be very slow and gentle and let the horse give you the release, but they both ultimately end up licking and chewing so it seems to be hitting the right spot. I like it better than the typical carrots stretches as it gives the muscles time to actually soften rather than just stretch.

You could also try some cross fiber myofascial massage. There’s the posture prep tool, which I love, but with the sounds of your guy I’d probably start out just gently using your fingers. Stroke perpendicular to the hair using short (5 inch) strokes, about 6 times in each spot.

[beowulf]

This horse sounds like he is in pain (running away, flipping head, tricky to ride). Something is not up to (his) standard for your horse to make him crib. It is as much a management issue as behavioral. Breaking the behavioral requires management changes.

Can you put him out 24/7 with a group of horses? I’d make sure the feet are correctly trimmed, too.

[Ajierene]

I would suggest a chiropractor - he may be out of alignment and in pain.

My mare had had hind end issues that are resolving with regular work but then we went to a show after a vicious, and COMPLETELY unprovoked (hey, didn’t know they had their home in old stump!) hornet attack and she refused some jumps. I had not had an issue with her in the arena at home or in warm up but this round was on slightly hilly surface and the two jumps she refused were going downhill.

I noticed after that she didn’t want to come round and accept contact as much and also didn’t want to even trot downhill.

Well, chiropractor out next week and found out she had wrenched her neck - probably during the vicious assault as I had jumped off of her and she had gotten her reins under her neck but not over her head - she had just balled up so much when she was jumping about that the rein ended up under her leg.

This horse may have had the issue for a LONG time - my mare’s hind end issues went on longer than I care to admit because the trainer where I was keeping her at the time kept looking at other causes and I was following her lead. Hindsight and all that…

[zelle]

What an amazing story. Did you just have to rest her after that? I had a mare that needed a few months off after wrenching her neck. I’m glad you’re ok.

[zelle]

I believe it’s a habit rather than a pain issue. He’s so bright eyed, willing and good natured. Coat is gleaming. Never avoids work with a spook or a buck. Is not girthy. Always a gentleman to mount. Completely cooperative and trusting always. This time the vet/chiro watched him go in addition to flexing and checking his back and trigger points. She thinks he has hock and stifle pain. So we’re injecting today. It was helpful to me to have heard from some here that it sounded like hind end issues. Thank you.