Crosby saddle gurus - help identifying needed!

[ammy-ville]

Hey all! I have been on the look out for a lower priced saddle that is modern in style for a friend. I ran across a Crosby that is the right size in almost new with just a few blemishes in the tack store today for $499 with no fittings.

Its a Crosby California Prix de Nations with leather knee rolls. It has the old style keeper for the stirrup leather ends, the wrap around the outside of the saddle flap. It has Crosby by Miller on it. It has the number “97” next to the works California Prix de Nations. It has the maker in Englands stamp on the under flap.

The old style keeper and the fact that it says Miller’s on it makes me think it is an old one and should be pretty good quality, maybe a tad hard in the seat. But wear wise, the thing looks like it isn’t even broken in and all the stamps are very readable, so can it really be old enough to be made when Miller’s was still the distributer? When was that anyway?

Can anyone tell me about these saddles, wool flocked or foam? good quality or not? price for used in excellent condition?

Much appreciated!

[Spartacus]

Generally, Prix de Nations are kind of what we all grew up riding in. Hard as a rock with no knee blocks, no padding, nothing between you and the horse----great to learn to ride in, because you really developed your leg. But rather painful. As well, they didn’t have a lot of give to the horse, so if you do purchase it, make sure there’s ample room for a nice, thick fleece pad.

They can be had for $200, or less. Even in fantastic condition, 500 seems high to me, especially if it’s a 97. They were always foam flocked.

If you want to tell me a little about what your friend wants to do with her saddle—ie, does she own or lease a horse, what type of riding she does, I can suggest a couple of very good, honest saddle sellers who can help you find the right saddle at the right price.

If you want to go with a crosby, you might want to look at the Crosby XL saddle—much more comfy than a PDN, and you should be able to find a good one for around $500. The problem with older saddles is that they tend to be too narrow in general—so make sure you know what gullet and channel measurement you want, or it will sit too close to the horse’s spine, width-wise (narrow channel) or pinch behind the wither (narrow gullet).

Barnsby Whitakers or Miltons—size 3 tree is a regular medium width—can be had for around $500 also, and they are quite comfy as well.

I hope this helps

[ammy-ville]

This one is not one of the flat ones from the 80’s…, it does have knee rolls. I don’t know if they came up with the “California” PDN to differentiate it from the old flat flat PDN’s…

[alto]

The “California” pdn was a special version, I don’t recall the details (thought it was discussed somewhere on COTH, but can’t seem to find that old post) but they were made with padded knee flaps & other details long before this became the norm, if I recall correctly, they ran ~2K when other pdns ran ~1K, like most Crosby saddles, they would’ve been available in at least a M & W tree, wool panels were available as a special order on Crosby saddles (standard on a couple models).

This saddle sounds as if it was sitting in a warehouse or tack shop for years before making its way onto the market; I’d certainly give it a try if it seems to fit you.

I don’t know if any of this info is still current but you might try contacting the manufacturer wit the serial number

[Bogie]

I would be wary of an older foam paneled saddle. Even if it wasn’t used much, the old-style foam degraded over time and may well offer no cushioning now. Those older saddles also had very narrow gullets which are not as comfortable for the horse as newer saddles.

Of course, not seeing the saddle, that might not be the case. I own a Kieffer (wool flocked) from the late 70s - early 80s that has a perfectly fine gullet and was in mint condition. However, even that saddle only cost $500 and it is comparable to saddles running 3-4K today in terms of quality.

I wouldn’t pay more than $250 for what you are describing.

[BeastieSlave]

The California pdn’s aren’t all really old. I have a friend who has one from 2000? When they were still a pretty new model. I think there are more differences than just the knee rolls too. Friend uses hers all the time & it’s in great shape.

[vineyridge]

I think Miller’s may have gone under in about 2000.

[Dewey]

OP, it sounds as though this saddle is worth a try. Crosby saddles were of very good quality, and though the poster above who warned about the degrading foam is correct, lots of those old Prix des Nations saddles from the 70s and 80s are still seeing use. Our barn has a bunch for the school horses, and they have held up well. This one you are looking at probably isn’t that old. I googled pictures of that model, and it looks like a nice saddle, and the price seems reasonable to me. I would pay more for it than for a typical pancake PdN from 1985.

[QHEventer]

I had a California PDN, just sold it b/c it didn’t fit my horse, but they are great saddles. Worth much more than the classic PDN. I purchased mine used for $600 and was able to sell it for the same price! Well made, quality saddles.

[Appsolute]

Its a nice saddle - but keep in mind, saddles from that era where largely made to fit a racing type TB - fairly narrow, with very narrow gullets. I still have my crosby PDN from 1997 - but it sits in my house. The channel in the back between the panels is only about 2 inches wide. Worked okay for my quite narrow TB (48" inch girth) that I was riding back then, but in no way fits my 16.3 hand 56" inch girth
wearing TBx mare that I currently own.

[TC3200]

By 1999, Miller’s Crosby saddles were sold as Crosby Excel and some letter(s). So it is older than '99. The Crosby saddles were mostly made for the American market. Their M tree is quite generous, especially in the later 90s and later. Their W is really wide. The Walsall Riding Saddle Company made them and they make Exselle saddles now. The Plybond tree can often be widened about 1cm or so. I believe Smith Worthington and some other big names like East Crow Saddlery can do that. 97 is probably the year. '96 was an Olympic year, and the Crosby saddles all had the Olympic rings on them that year. Miller Harness was bought sometime in 2000-2001, I believe.

The California Prix, I think of as fitting more of a Quarter Horse type build. The seat on the one I had was pigskin and wasn’t as soft as the modern foams. But it wasn’t rock-hard, either.

from http://shop.allsaddles.com/discontinuedsaddlesforreference.html

Crosby California PDN Close Contact Saddle

The California Prix, developed to meet the trends and demands of today’s riders for padded flap close contact saddles. The SofRide seat is wider and deeper than the standard Prix. SofRide leather panels increase your horse’s comfort and break in easily. AirFlo self leather padded flaps and molded keen blocks. 16", 16 1/2", 17", 17 1/2". No. 504524

[ammy-ville]

Thanks all! She is going to try it tonight, finally. I think it may be a 97 - the leather keeper wrap around keeper is definitely predating the Excel’s - of which I had one of the original ones and i am sure I bought that around 1997 or 98, like the first year they were offered. It is in insanely good conidtion - it had to be sitting in a house somewhere under cover for most of the last 16 years… hopefully not because it’s so hard

Can’t be worse than the schooling saddles though… shiver!

[TC3200]

1999 Miller catalog:
#04524 Crosby California Prix des Nations, $1300.00 retail, sizes 16 to 17.5"