Cross-firing at the canter on the lunge line

[ChestnutArabianMare]

Question for you guys: what makes a horse cross-fire at the canter on the lunge line?

She only cross-fires on the lunge-line, but NOT when she’s loose or under saddle on a circle that’s the same size as the lunge line. She cross-fires the same in both directions, a little more so when she’s excited and a little less when she’s relaxed. She drops her shoulder to the inside when she does it, so I’m inclined to think it’s a balance issue. She usually picks up the wrong hind lead right from the get-go. Sometimes she’ll throw in a flying lead change (in both directions) with no apparent effort.

She’s 100% sound and barefoot, cleared by the vet and adjusted by the chiropractor a couple of times. Neither found anything of interest. No areas of tenderness and she is NOT a stoic horse. If she was hurting, we’d know. She’s done this since I’ve bought her two years ago and she’s gone through varying periods of light to heavy work with very little change in the cross-firing, ridden both by me and a professional trainer. Her walk and trot are both quite lovely and she swings nicely through her back and is very light in the bridle.

The mare in question is an Arab/Saddlebred cross, with a fairly short back/compact build and very, very athletic, 7 y/o and 15.2hh. She lives outside, but it’s been super icy and she’s smart enough to only walk and maybe jog a little bit, so she’s pretty out of shape. I had surgery last fall so she’s been out of work since October. We’ve had maybe 6 rides back and I’ve only cantered her very, very briefly under saddle a couple of times since we’ve been back with no cross-firing. FWIW, she is slightly base narrow in the rear.

We have a very small indoor arena (maybe 60 x 80) to ride in and it’s too icy to ride outside right now. Suggestions for activities that might help her to improve? Thanks in advance!

[Libby2563]

I have a 23-year-old horse who has done the same thing ever since I bought him as a 4-year-old, also only on the longe. He never had lead issues under saddle and competed up to Grand Prix dressage, with his tempi changes being one of his strengths. Perhaps there is a physical cause but if so that was the only time it was apparent, so I chose not to worry about it.

[ChestnutArabianMare]

@Libby2563

I have a 23-year-old horse who has done the same thing ever since I bought him as a 4-year-old, also only on the longe. He never had lead issues under saddle and competed up to Grand Prix dressage, with his tempi changes being one of his strengths. Perhaps there is a physical cause but if so that was the only time it was apparent, so I chose not to worry about it.

That makes me feel so much better!

[Palm_Beach]

Obviously she is not straight and balanced front to back and side to side, which is hard for some horses to do on the lunge line because the person lunging them has the head pulled to the inside and up in the air, and the rest of the body is all over the place. The person just stands there and the horse goes round and round and round in a mess, doing more harm than good. I’d recommend ground exercises that focus on getting the horse balanced and leave the lunging alone. It’s not helping the horse.

[SuzieQNutter]

@Palm Beach

Obviously she is not straight and balanced front to back and side to side, which is hard for some horses to do on the lunge line because the person lunging them has the head pulled to the inside and up in the air, and the rest of the body is all over the place. The person just stands there and the horse goes round and round and round in a mess, doing more harm than good. I’d recommend ground exercises that focus on getting the horse balanced and leave the lunging alone. It’s not helping the horse.

I agree are you lunging correctly or simpy running around at the end of a rope?

[MyKindaFlower]

OP, what about working in double lines? That’s worked really well for me when there’s some confusion or balance trouble on a single line.

Or maybe some ground pole grid work?

I know you might not be able to do it if there are other people in the arena, but if it’s empty you might also want to work in as much of an oval pattern as you can with circles at each end of the arena thrown in once the horse is relaxed and focused.

If all else fails, what about focusing mainly on walk and trot and just throw in the cue to transition to canter before asking her back down to the trot? Once she’s relaxed and focused, let her go a few strides at the canter, preferably in a straighter line, before asking for her to come down to the trot. I’m thinking it may be an out of shape thing (this was a rough year for keeping them fit!) or it may be an anticipation thing that’s making her tense up some? So, keep her guessing, but in a good way, maybe?

[ladyj79]

I have a mare who for a variety of reasons isn’t good on the lunge, including crossfiring. So I don’t lunge her. Is there a reason this mare must be lunged at this point in time?

Also for getting in shape, and really anything on the lunge, walk and trot are absolutely sufficient.

[PNWjumper]

Most of my horses have done this when they’re young. I agree that it’s usually a balance issue (and muscling issue) and many horses do it as a “cheat” on the lunge.

[Foxtrot_s]

^^^^^ Yes - PNW - the horse may be growing, the circle too small. Takes time, takes balance and muscling.
However, lunging is not an essential although there are reasons a horse should know how. Often a horse will lunge for a bit then say “I’m good now, let’s get going.” So I don’t actually lunge that much once the basics are i place.

Another thing - too much lunging on too small a circle can pop a splint very easily. Taking them off the line and allowing time for the young bone to heal usually sorts it.

[ChestnutArabianMare]

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First, I swear I’m not mindlessly running my horse around at the end of the lunge line or running her into the ground:)

Second, the indoor arena is maybe 50 x 80 and one end is frozen since it flooded last week. So we’re stuck on a very small circle if it involves anything over a trot.

We do a great deal of groundwork, the vast majority of which is walk, frequent direction changes, jog-trot-jog speed rating within the gait based on body language, and walking, trotting, pivoting, sidepassing and backing in hand (think showmanship) and sending her around/over whatever obstacles I can create. I try really hard to keep her guessing since otherwise her Arab brain gets bored. Like when the indoor arena flooded last week (and then froze), she got sent over lots and lots of puddles. Tarps, around cones, that sort of thing.

When I do ask her for a canter, I already use frequent transitions - say 5 strides of canter, back to trot, canter, rinse and repeat. There’s maybe 7-8 minutes of walk/jog/trot/reverse and 1 minute of canter altogether on the lunge… maybe 2x/week? I’m hardly running her into the ground. I do take lessons to make sure I’m doing what I think I’m doing and have another set of eyes on us.

She needs a little groundwork prior to riding to engage her brain and relax, especially when she’s just coming back to work. Otherwise, our rides start out very snorty. With groundwork, they’re very mellow. Our rides are maybe 20 minutes - I’m certainly not pushing her since she’s out of shape.

She’ll be 8 in June, and the last time she grew upwards was in 2017. 2018 and 2019 seem to be dedicated to growing wider. I sincerely hope she’s done with it by now!

[Foxtrot_s]

Please OP - my post above was NOT inferring that you were running your horse into the ground - just a sort of PSA
in general as it does happen. Sounds like you have the patience and are on the right track.

(Wish my horse would do 5 stride canter and then a transition, nice and smooth)

[ChestnutArabianMare]

@Foxtrot's

Please OP - my post above was NOT inferring that you were running your horse into the ground - just a sort of PSA
in general as it does happen. Sounds like you have the patience and are on the right track.

(Wish my horse would do 5 stride canter and then a transition, nice and smooth)

That really wasn’t directed at you - sorry if it came off as a little bit crabby! Some days transitions are better than others, but “Whoa” is oddly her favorite word on the lunge line - funny for an energetic Arab, but she does have good brakes on the lunge and under saddle. Don’t lean forward when you’re riding her and say “whoa” or you might find yourself popped out of the saddle. That almost happened to me when I was trying her out before I bought her :lol:

[Foxtrot_s]

An Arab mare raised me (Jamilla) and was my first relationship with a horse that we dream of. A hundred years ago I’d walk her home after a Hunt - per Pony Club manual - and she would “join up” long before it was NH mantra. Comes from all those years the Arabs lived so closely with them as prized possessions.

[4horses]

Usually it is the result of the person turning their head towards the inside of the circle. This causes the shoulder to drop and hind end to swing out. Or from lunging in too small of a circle.

So if i want to setup the horse to get the correct lead, i pull them into a small circle at the trot, then i want to release their head while pushing them out/away. Or you can also pick the long side of the arena to lunge along- wait til the horse comes out of the corner to ask for the canter.

[SuzieQNutter]

I did not say running into the ground. I said running around at the end of a rope. The photo you have put up does not show a horse who is working correctly or being lunged correctly.

I have started lunging a horse in the last 8 weeks. He has gone from not being lunged to now being lunged in side reins. His muscles have developed correctly and he now looks like a horse in work.

If he goes off incorrectly. I use the word incorrect and bring him back to trot. If he is disunited. I say the word disunited and bring him back to trot. If he goes off correctly he hears the words Good boy and encouraged to continue. To start with he could only do a few strides so he was asked to trot, then he could do one circle before disuniting so I only asked for one circle. He can now do several circles without disuniting.

This has been done slowly with only 10 minutes of lunging daily. He is 9 yo.

[Palm_Beach]

@SuzieQNutter

I agree are you lunging correctly or simpy running around at the end of a rope?

I find no value in lunging and don’t do it. I do groundwork or I’m astride.

[NancyM]

With some horses, the presence of the rider on the horse’s back helps to keep him balanced and organized, which he may not be doing as well on his own on the lunge. Yes, I’ve had the occasional horse like this too.

[IPEsq]

Try a longe cavesson (or even clipping the line to the nose of a rope halter) or double line longeing. If the line is at their chin, this can encourage the wrong bend/falling in with the shoulder stuff that makes them unbalanced. And then if she is excited, speed does not help her balance. Attaching the line to the front or using two lines on a bit can help encourage the nose to tip in versus the shoulder tipping in and may help her with the right shape to be comfortable on the correct lead.