Cross-tying

[Pocket_Pony]

Do you or don’t you cross tie? Reasons?

When teaching a young horse to cross tie do you teach them to ground tie or hard tie first?

We had one horse we leased for Mr. PoPo and it wasn’t disclosed to us, but that horse didn’t tie well and broke a halter (the first time he did it we thought something spooked him and that it was just a freak thing) while pulling back at the trailer. The next time he was in the cross ties and everything was fine and he freaked the eff out for some reason and broke the cross ties. We sent him back after that.

As I work with Princess Fancy Pants, I’m trying to think about how to do this the best way. She will tie to a post or trailer okay, but she is very fidgety in the cross tie area. I’ve tried both ground tying her and having one cross tie hooked on and the lead rope in my hand for the other side. When I groom her she wiggles around a lot.

If I take her to my indoor, though, I can “ground tie” her with no lead rope and she’ll stand there while I groom her and even trim her feet (which she’s not good about in the cross ties).

I’m wondering if it is an issue of the cross ties themselves, or the footing underneath her - aisleway is cement, cross tie area is rubber mats (but bumpy for traction), and arena is sand.

[beowulf]

I always teach them to stand (ground tie) first, and yield to pressure (with a rope halter). That includes pulling their head down, tugging, etc. Some of the harder ones that get very nervous or balky with pressure, I honestly let them graze in the paddock with the lead on until they stop panicking when pressure is applied. They step on the lead a few times, pop up and panic, but eventually condition themselves to step OFF of the lead rope… Once I can tack them up anywhere I want, I consider them ready to tie to a hard object.

For instance, my gelding (off track) obviously did not come to me knowing how to cross tie. We spent a few weeks teaching him to ground tie first in the aisle, then in the indoor, then we graduated to one cross tie hooked on - all this while picking feet, tacking up, etc.

Generally horses are smart and once they see the tack or grooming tote they seem to associate the session with “standing still”, or at least, in my experience.

Once that is under way I start tying them to a single object. Cross-tying can be scary if a horse doesn’t understand yielding to pressure.

See, a horse can understand tying, but not understand yielding to pressure. I think that is the big gap in many a horse’s basics… once they understand they can easily and quickly end the pressure by stepping forward or back, tying to a hard object seems a non issue.

[OveroHunter]

Before you ever start teaching a horse to tie, you need a horse that will calmly lead and stand while you hold a lead rope.

Our next step is to teach to hard tie. We do this by looping a long lead rope through one of those circular fasteners so that we hold one end, the rope goes through the circle (on a tying post) and then attaches to the halter. The horse feels like it is tied, but you can give pressure or hold pressure depending on the situation.

Once they’re good there and you’re actually able to tie them instead of just holding the end of the rope, we work on cross tying. At this point the horse should be standing quietly while held or hard tied.

Like you said if your OP, we fasten one cross tie and have another person hold the end of a log lead rope on the edge of the cross ties as if they were the other cross tie. Depending on your barn situation you may want to work on walking horses by and under the cross ties (assuming it isn’t a grooming stall).

Teaching how to cross tie is usually the easy part because we don’t even begin to try it until they’re already pretty chill with the whole standing tied thing.

[SmartAlex]

Cross tying in an aisle is not the best place to train one to cross tie. Aisles, in a horse’s mind, are for going somewhere. There are not enough walls to contain them for you. Mine learn either in their own stall, or in the grooming area which is 12x12 three sided area with mats over concrete.

I have ropes on blocker rings. When first teaching I keep a lead rope on them and over my arm or have a helper run the lead rope until the horse understands through correction that they are supposed to stay put in that area. They should never test the ropes. The ropes are really just there to enforce the idea of staying put. Basically, they should stand ground tied in your cross tie area.

My current horse will stand in our grooming area cross tied for as long as I need him to, come Hell or High Water and he would do the same in his own stall but I am sure I would have to re-train him from scratch if I moved the ties to the aisle where he supposes that he is always going somewhere not standing around.

[candyappy]

I personally have seen way to many horses freaking out on cross ties. Most people at the stable i boarded at (24 years ago) used them. We had a piece of twine attached to the snaps in case the horse had a panic attack and pulled back. A lot of them did. Sometimes it was due to other boarders leading their horses by the tied one and going under the ties( ??) Doesn’t really matter why they pull back , really. I prefer to always tie to something with a front ( wall , trailer etc…) if possible.

[arabiansrock]

My gelding does not like to cross tie. I have posted about him before. Tried all the ideas presented, nothing helped. He wouldn’t even straight tie calmly in that area. Had a brainstorm and decided to groom him in the OTHER grooming area that is out of sight of the arenas and an open pasture. Instant relaxation. There is just something about the main grooming area that sets him off. Unfortunatley that is where the arenas are also, but he seems fine in them. just not in the open area in between. So moral of the story is, maybe try tying your horse up in a different area. I still have no idea why my boy likes one place and not the other but I will work with where he likes, lol’

[quietann]

My mare hadn’t cross-tied a lot when I got her, but she could hard tie and ground tie pretty well. Once she figured out cross-ties (took about 2 days) she was fine with them, though she can get a bit wiggly, and it was very funny watching her try to figure out how to get all her hooves OFF the mats in the aisles. For some reason, she didn’t like mats.

Baby horse, now 14 months old, was trained to yield to pressure before she ever had a halter on her, and could be led with a butt rope and an arm across her chest. She then learned to wear a halter and to lead and to stand still while people moved around her, and then went to a tie blocker set high when she was maybe 4 months old… which she understood quickly and hasn’t tried to escape. She has never been hard-tied and I’d prefer that she not be; cross-tying I consider to be a basic skill and it is the norm around here, but her breeder/trainer doesn’t cross tie, so I will need to teach her. I personally LOVE the tie blockers and really dislike hard tying. LOVE tie blockers for cross-tying, too.

[rustbreeches]

After years on the race track, I don’t cross tie anything. I just got so used to tying horses up in their stalls, which is far safer, IMO. I’ve seen horses try and commit suicide on cross ties, loose horses wreak havoc going down an aisle of tied horses, etc. Now, at home, anything we have stands tied to the fence. I put screw eyes on posts and use baling twine with a snap. I’m totally ghetto and much prefer tying with baling twine, since it will break, even though we only use break away or leather halters.

[LawsofMurph]

Hmmm I’ve done a little of each. My horse came to me knowing how to cross tie, but would try his hardest to pull any “hitching post” out of the ground. couldn’t tie him to anything. But he eventually got over that dangerous habit. I’ve always preferred cross-ties, I think, because there is more room to maneuver. Someone once told me not to tack up in the stall because that was supposed to be a “safe place” for the horse to rest.

Nowadays I do whatever is easiest. Beautiful weather, we’ll tie up and tack outside. If it’s cold we’ll cross-tie inside. If the cross ties are full we’ll just tack in the stall. There are merits to being able to do all three.

Although, I would kill for the ability to ground tie! My guy either starts eating whatever is available or follows me around like a puppy if I leave him to his own devices!

:lol:

[StormyDay]

I despise cross ties. IMO they are dangerous, and the pressure is all wrong on the horses face. Horses are used to pressure coming from the nose, up through the cheek bones, and finally over the poll. In cross ties it goes directly to the poll, which can be terrifying for horses that haven’t been taught that pressure on the head= head goes down.
On top of this, as prey animals, horses need to be able to see around them to assess danger. If they can’t look around, when they hear a noise, instead of looking and going ‘oh that isn’t scary’ they just run. Even calm, sensible horses have this reaction.
Lastly, when you tie a horse up to something, if a horse pulls back, the horse must exert quite a bit of pressure in order to get free. In cross ties, they must be attached with something fragile, like baling twine, that requires almost no force to break free, and some horses learn this and can take advantage of this by breaking them on purpose. If they aren’t attached this way, then the horse is in danger of flipping over!
So, pretty much, I hate cross ties. My horses all tie directly to an object, or ground tie.

[Hulk]

I am one of those horse people that’s kind of like, meh whatever, just go with the flow. My first horse did not tie at all to anything. So I learned to do all tacking grooming while holding the lead. Then through all the years I just do whatever seems easiest. Tie in the stall, or cross tie, or tie to the trailer , whatever. I adjust to the horse.

The only thing I am picky about is I really only like to use leather halters any more. It is just a preference of mine. I think they last just as long as nylon, and are safer. So if you are in a horse tied situation that is going bad at least you have that in your favor.

[sorrelfilly721]

I never cross tie until I am sure they tie well and are not inclined to pull back. Cross ties are easy to break and once they learn they can break them, they repeat the procedure.

[exvet]

She had always stood without issue in the cross ties for us. We started her in cross ties around 18 months of age. I never had her break free, spin around, get loose or cause any issues other than pawing when she felt she wasn’t getting the attention she thought should be hers.

[Pocket_Pony]

Busy afternoon yesterday so I just got a chance to read all the replies.

Princess Fancy Pants leads well, yields to pressure, “follows a feel,” is just starting to be ponied, and I’m quite confident got a great start in her ground work from exvet. She isn’t bad in the cross ties, she’s just not an old pro (obviously, she’s just coming three :lol:) and I’m trying to be proactive to do what I can to make hoof trimming visits a positive encounter for all involved. I’m doing my homework for the sake of Pony, hoof trimmer, and me.

My cross tie area is 3-sided (basically the size of a stall with wood up the walls and mats on the floor, just no door), I don’t cross tie in the aisleway, and since it is at home, no other horses are coming or going. Actually, it is across the aisle from the stalls and now I have to wonder/pay attention to what the other horses are doing when I’m grooming her. If they are in their paddocks and she can’t see them, maybe that’s why she’s fidgety. Duh. I’ll mind that next time and see what I come up with.

I’ll keep these suggestions in the back of my mind, thanks!

[HungarianHippo]

my old guy was a confirmed xtie breaker-- it’s not as if he was fidgety, but if he happened to back up a step and the ties got taut, then he’d go full-on sitting back in a panic. Yes it’s pressure on the poll, but I think there’s a strong visual element too-- as they step back, suddenly there are two ropes on either side next to their face, nearly at eye level, when moments ago they were hanging down well away from the face.

Solved it by being vigilant about keeping him centered in the aisle, and stepping him forward every time he took even a tiny step back. So the ties always stayed loose. Made sure he was facing the action-- if there’s a busy arena in his view, I’d face him toward the arena rather than let him wonder what’s going on behind him. Anyway, by correcting the minor little steps he was taking, I I was teaching him to truly STAND moreso than teaching him how to tie. But one solved the other.

I wouldn’t ever call him 100%-- I’m not sure many confirmed pullers ever lose that behavior entirely. But he got really good about standing, so I could leave him alone the ties to go to the tackroom or otherwise disappear for a few minutes at a time without worry.

[Simbalism]

I taught my mares to stand still without being tied first. Then would leave the lead on and attach one side of the cross ties. I would do this for a while so that horse would stand still. Then progress to both ties attached but still have lead on so I could correct horse if she started moving around.

[exvet]

I’m going to guess that the difference between how she behaved here in cross ties to what you’re seeing now is due to the barn/set up. I’ve run into this before with horses I’ve sold. We have the typical mare motel set up. My hitching post/tying grooming area is not an aisle way per se but it’s set up is much like one and VERY open. There are no walls behind or beside a horse in either of my cross ties. I have two sets and the horses are cross tied one behind the other with at least two horse lengths in between and use them this way when more than one person is tacking up at a time or when my farrier is here to do the herd. She was use to a horse being in the cross ties behind her and had no issue as well as standing quietly alone; but, the key is there are/were few if any blind spots (walls) and again very open.

I sold a gelding several years back who evidently did not care for the conventional stall where there was no way to see out (keep in mind he was 14 hands tall). He was use to the pole barn set up in which a horse can see who is next door, who is turned out and what is coming and going all around it.

So my ‘guess’ is that she’s just going to have to get use to the difference in view/feel of being more closed in while in the cross ties. So forewarning, wash racks around here are VERY different than wash racks in other regions. She got use to standing quietly in ours for the purpose of getting a bath - it wasn’t uncommon for her to play ‘my pretty pony’ with my, then 20 year old, daughter who loves to groom.

[MsM]

I always wonder about the idea of tying in the stall as a safer method. If a horse acts up in there you are more likely to be trapped in there with him! Of course my perception is colored by having witnessed such an accident. Horse unexpectedly freaked out with owner in stall, brushing, horse tied to stall front. Horse was between owner and door while he thrashed and twisted. Owner was injured when repeatedly hit into stall wall.

[beowulf]

[QUOTE=MsM;8132733]
I always wonder about the idea of tying in the stall as a safer method. If a horse acts up in there you are more likely to be trapped in there with him! Of course my perception is colored by having witnessed such an accident. Horse unexpectedly freaked out with owner in stall, brushing, horse tied to stall front. Horse was between owner and door while he thrashed and twisted. Owner was injured when repeatedly hit into stall wall.[/QUOTE]

cross-tying is safer for humans, less safe for horse. risk of flipping over, slipping on concrete, getting loose, etc.

stall ties safer for horses, minimal flip risk, can’t get loose… but humans can’t always get out of the way.

i think with all things horses you need to weigh the pros and cons and find out what works best in any given situation.

[Cindyg]

I do cross tie, mainly because in my small barn, the best place to tie and groom (in the shade and out of the mud) is in the cross tie.

My horse came to me without good tying manners. He would plunge and fidget and try to turn around. (Scary!)

I got two Clips, one for each side of the cross tie. I was no longer afraid he would pull the barn down.

The Clip has enough give that the horse doesn’t feel trapped, but enough pull that the horse doesn’t care to argue with it. It will release in an emergency.

ETA: “Release” isn’t the right word. It doesn’t release. But the horse can pull out of it in an emergency. It does NOT teach him if he pulls hard he can easily get away. Think of it like lifting a car off your baby in an emergency. It can be done, but it’s not something you’ll expect to do again.

Anyway, The Clip made a huge difference in his tying behavior.