I’m just starting to learn about morgans and have become quite impressed with them. Are crosses with TBs popular and if not, why - is it because there isn’t a registry for the cross or is it because it’s not a great a match?
I’ve ridden three of them. They were very pretty, great conformation, they were all nice hunters, one was an eventer.
Their temperments left a little to be desired, but that could just have been the sire/dam combination.
A Morgan/TB is not a common cross, Ihave never even heard of it. Likely because these horses are a bit opposite in type. The Morgan should be a short, sturdy all purpose cob type of horse, built for riding and drving and the most emphasized gait in the breed is the trot, wheres the Thoroughbred is lean and leggy and its canter is the most emphasized gait. I have seen Hackney/Morgan crosses, Saddlebred/Morgan crosses, Dutch Harness Horse/Morgan crosses, and Arab/Morgan crosses. The Arab/Morgan cross is fairly popular in some areas, they are called Morabs and have their own registry.
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Pajama Games
Pajama Games was 1/2 morgan and 1/2 TB and he evented at the upper levels, I think he went to the Pan American games.
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I had a mare that was that cross that I evented thru training level and bred her back to a TB to produce a lovely 3/4 bred. Super nice cross with the substance of the morgan and the size and athleticism of the TB. There was someone (name escapes me) in New England that evented a couple of horses of this cross thru the upper levels of eventing…Colin Lindsley was one and a few others of the same breeding.
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As you can guess from my name here, I raise this cross. My first colt is now coming 3, and I have just started him under saddle. He’s a wonderful blend of the breeds, being a little bit bigger than a typical Morgan but very solid and tough, and has the TB “turbo boosters” with the unflappable brain that makes him not spend half his time in orbit. He looks Morgany with the beautifully arched, high set on neck and he’s very uphill in his way of going, and he has a great, well-muscled hip. I can’t say enough about his temperament…HUGE hearted and generous, willing to do whatever I ask, with a well-developed sense of mischief!
I can’t post pics here but I’d be happy to e-mail any to you if you’d like to see what this cross looks like!
Katja
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You don’t see a lot of them, but I know of 2 (unrelated) who are awesome eventers! :yes:
We had one client with a Morgan mare she showed dressage breed to our guy - Here are some early pictures of him:
http://www.angelfire.com/on3/TrueColoursFarm/GG-Morganfoals.html
and her intention is to show him dressage as well.
One colt that I bought this year - the sire is TB and his dam is a Holsteiner / Morgan cross.
I have seen several TB/Morgan cross foals out there - the sire has always been a TB and I think the Mare owners have been very selective in which type of stallion they have opted for - nothing overly leggy or hugely tall - something in the 16-16.2hh range and with conformation that closely mimics that of their mares and it has worked out beautifully!
I rode a Morgan/TB cross many years ago for a client and he was an awesome jumper. She ended up doing hunters on him but it took awhile to get the “temperament” for that since he was a bit “hot”. In my opinion he would of excelled at eventing but the owner wanted a hunter and that is what he finally became. When he hit 6ish he did start to relax more and she did well with him. He was a beautiful horse! Not knowing his breeding at first when I met him I thought he was a Trakhner or warmblood/TB cross. He had excellent feet (never needed shoes)and beautiful lines. I think she had said that the Morgan was the dam and was the “old” style type. He was about 15.3 maybe 16h and definitely not for a beginner early on, lol. He knew he was powerful and took awhile to convince to cooperate, lol.
I have just recently heard of a couple of these crosses doing great eventing, but after my previous experience with the one I can surely see why they would do well at that sport.
Here in Michigan we have a gentleman who has been competing on his Morgan in Eventing for many, many years and actually got to Prelim.
I love Morgans and my farrier breeds the finest Morgans you will ever see. They would love for me to breed my TB broodmare to one of their studs - and I actually would love to but she has other plans for the coming year and they may end up selling/gelding their boys due to retirement.
I think it would be a great cross! I say go for it - Morgans are nice, sturdy horses and all of the ones that I’ve meant have had great temperments.
[QUOTE=PartyofSix;2886198]
I’m just starting to learn about morgans and have become quite impressed with them. Are crosses with TBs popular and if not, why - is it because there isn’t a registry for the cross or is it because it’s not a great a match?[/QUOTE]
Two important questions: Are you thinking of breeding one for yourself, or trying to start a breeding program based on this cross? What would be the purpose for this horse?
This might be a successful cross for driving, or possibly eventing, but probably not for dressage. So if you’re looking for a driving horse, maybe give it a try. If you’re looking for a dressage horse, I’d keep looking. While there may be exceptions, a Morgan is not generally a horse known to be a back mover nor are they known for their gaits, and those are both important elements for a dressage horse. Being cute, cobby, and with a naturally arched looking neck is not enough to cut it as a dressage horse.
I also would not pursue such a cross as the basis for a breeding program, because I don’t see there would be much (if any) market for an unknown, basically unproven cross like this. Your best chance at finding a niche market would be driving, and I just don’t know if that is a big enough market (yet) to base a breeding program on it, not when you compare it to hunter/jumper and dressage (the two biggest markets) or even event horses.
If you are simply so in love with the idea of this cross, maybe breed one for personal use, if it is good enough quality try presenting it at one of the American Warmblood inspections, and go from there?
Otherwise, to start a breeding program, you have to look at your goal, what is it you want to produce. Then ask yourself is there a market for this horse? Are you looking to breed a cutting horse, a dressage horse, a jumper, or??? Will the breeds I’ve chosen to cross create a successful horse for my chosen discipline or niche? Am I choosing based on sound breeding information, or is my heart leading my head because I’ve become enamored with a breed? (Or worse, with one certain horse within a breed.) Will I be able to handle it financially if nobody wants to buy my unusual crossbred foals? Can I provide them a forever home if needed? These are all important questions, especially in the current market.
Otherwise a Morgan/TB could end up not that far removed from the Morgaloosaresians you see people poking fun at which end up more often than not in awful backyard homes or at slaughter houses.
There are two serious Morgan breeding farms in this area that also turn out a few Morgan/TBs each year, one is Dragonfire, and the other is Wintergreen. They breed specifically for 3 day event/jumper types, so they are using Morgans that are sport lines. The Morgan makes for a sturdier horse - more bone, easier keeper, and a bit more into self preservation. I wouldn’t say these are EASY horses though (but most good 3 day horses are tough nuts anyway - they have to be to survive the rigors of the equine triathalon!).
LOL, I was going to mention them. I am very good friends with Susan Garmier (who rides/trains for Ann Taylor and Wintergreen ) and she told me YEARS ago that she loved that cross. She has taken at least one of the horses to upper levels in dressage and she had started a few of them in eventing… Link to the whole website (they are out of Woodland Stallion Station) http://www.woodlandstallion.com/index.html go to the horses for sale site and there are some examples of morgan/tb crosses.
For dressage & eventing I’d be more inclined to try a Lipizzan-TB cross. The Lips have very sane temperaments and can indeed jump quite well. They lack speed for higher level eventing but TB can infuse that. I think the cross would be easier in disposition and more likely to do well in dressage, if the Lip hindquarters came through. Still, any first generation cross can be quite variable. I haven’t rried this cross myself.
[QUOTE=pinecone;2886735]
Two important questions: Are you thinking of breeding one for yourself, or trying to start a breeding program based on this cross? What would be the purpose for this horse?
This might be a successful cross for driving, or possibly eventing, but probably not for dressage. So if you’re looking for a driving horse, maybe give it a try. If you’re looking for a dressage horse, I’d keep looking. While there may be exceptions, a Morgan is not generally a horse known to be a back mover nor are they known for their gaits, and those are both important elements for a dressage horse. Being cute, cobby, and with a naturally arched looking neck is not enough to cut it as a dressage horse.
I also would not pursue such a cross as the basis for a breeding program, because I don’t see there would be much (if any) market for an unknown, basically unproven cross like this. Your best chance at finding a niche market would be driving, and I just don’t know if that is a big enough market (yet) to base a breeding program on it, not when you compare it to hunter/jumper and dressage (the two biggest markets) or even event horses.
If you are simply so in love with the idea of this cross, maybe breed one for personal use, if it is good enough quality try presenting it at one of the American Warmblood inspections, and go from there?
Otherwise, to start a breeding program, you have to look at your goal, what is it you want to produce. Then ask yourself is there a market for this horse? Are you looking to breed a cutting horse, a dressage horse, a jumper, or??? Will the breeds I’ve chosen to cross create a successful horse for my chosen discipline or niche? Am I choosing based on sound breeding information, or is my heart leading my head because I’ve become enamored with a breed? (Or worse, with one certain horse within a breed.) Will I be able to handle it financially if nobody wants to buy my unusual crossbred foals? Can I provide them a forever home if needed? These are all important questions, especially in the current market.
Otherwise a Morgan/TB could end up not that far removed from the Morgaloosaresians you see people poking fun at which end up more often than not in awful backyard homes or at slaughter houses.[/QUOTE]
I might want a Morgan/TB for my kids down the road for hunter/jumper. I’ve heard Morgan’s called “little warmbloods” and that’s what got me wondering about taking the “warmblood-like” qualities of a morgan but adding a wee bit of height and athleticism with a TB. It’s not something I’m looking to do now but I am gathering some info on the idea. I didn’t realize that this cross could be presented to the American Warmblood Ass. - that’s interesting.
My 3/4 TB, 1/4 Morgan gelding was presented to AWS and got a 76% and was branded. He placed in hand once at three years old against WB’s at Raleigh under a German Judge and placed 4th beating several full WB stallions. He was frequently mistaken for a Holsteiner by people who would see him.
Several years ago I was horse shopping and was interested in trying or at least seeing this cross. I found three advertised over about a 6 month period and all were sold immediately. I never got to even go see one of them.
I was looking for an event horse, I was told that all three were sold to eventers. Apparently I wasn’t the only one who thought this might be an interesting cross.
I might want a Morgan/TB for my kids down the road for hunter/jumper. I’ve heard Morgan’s called “little warmbloods” and that’s what got me wondering about taking the “warmblood-like” qualities of a morgan but adding a wee bit of height and athleticism with a TB. It’s not something I’m looking to do now but I am gathering some info on the idea. I didn’t realize that this cross could be presented to the American Warmblood Ass. - that’s interesting.
In that case, I suppose my advice about the cautions of starting a breeding program were unneccessary;). (Although maybe it can still be helpful to others lurking and reading this thread, I guess it’s never a waste of time to post breeding advice on a breeding forum;).)
I can’t help but wonder, though, if it sounds like what you are wanting is something “warmblood-like”, why don’t you breed a Wbld/Tb cross? It would be less risky, and Touchstone is right, first generation crosses can otherwise be “quite variable” when you are using unlike types (like Morgan and TB).
The state of the horse market simply has me really leery of the potential fate of the equine versions of Labradoodles we’re seeing pop up like weeds (the Morgaresians and Walkaloosas of the horse world.)
Still, any first generation cross can be quite variable.
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[QUOTE=pinecone;2887175]
I can’t help but wonder, though, if it sounds like what you are wanting is something “warmblood-like”, why don’t you breed a Wbld/Tb cross? It would be less risky, and Touchstone is right, first generation crosses can otherwise be “quite variable” when you are using unlike types (like Morgan and TB).
The state of the horse market simply has me really leery of the potential fate of the equine versions of Labradoodles we’re seeing pop up like weeds (the Morgaresians and Walkaloosas of the horse world.)[/QUOTE]
Haha :winkgrin: I have a “Labranese” which I bought specifically for that cross which is 1/2 Lab Retriever and 1/2 Bernese Mountain Dog. It’s typical of me though I want the best of everything - no wonder I like buffets to regular restaurants!
The only thing about breeding warmblood and TBs that concerns me is the overall size. I do want to have something around 15.1-15.3 as the horse is destined for my my kids who range in age from 6 to a baby and maybe it’s because they’re so young now but I can’t see them on anything over 16h.
[QUOTE=PartyofSix;2887239]
Haha :winkgrin: I have a “Labranese” which I bought specifically for that cross which is 1/2 Lab Retriever and 1/2 Bernese Mountain Dog. It’s typical of me though I want the best of everything - no wonder I like buffets to regular restaurants!
The only thing about breeding warmblood and TBs that concerns me is the overall size. I do want to have something around 15.1-15.3 as the horse is destined for my my kids who range in age from 6 to a baby and maybe it’s because they’re so young now but I can’t see them on anything over 16h.[/QUOTE]
Also, not to nock the warmblood since I like them very much and breed them, but ocd is almost unheard of in the Morgan. And as I mentioned before (being a farrier) their feet tend to be great. Many warmbloods and TBs lack a good foot. In eventing I would think strong bones and feet would be a serious concern. What is your intended discipline?
