I would imagine that with some added vitamin and trace mineral this CA feed can be fed safely. It’s just hard not to say “hold on a minute!” When you read that someone cares too much about the life and health of their horses to feed what Dex with his 25k in medical bills is being fed while he’s up recovering. Lol. What bothers me about this feed is they make it seem like it provides everything the horse needs. I think their marketing is unsafe as is their very vocal insistence that NSC content has no bearing on health.
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There marketing campaign/feeding instructions simply states 1-2kg/hd/day and forage. They make no mention of a TM&V supplement.
So if you follow their “instructions” you horse will be deficient in most minerals and vitamins.
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Well, obviously I read the ingredient list. Like I said, what job are split peas meant to be doing?
Another poster beat me to doing the maths on this.
As far as GMO, there are some crops that are predominantly GMO these days. Those include soy and corn.
There are some crops that are not GMO. Those include oats and timothy hay. So if you feed oats and timothy, by definition you are feeding non GMO plants. You don’t need a label on the bag to tell you the oats are non GMO.
https://modernfarmer.com/2014/01/heres-gmo-oats/
If you are feeding alfalfa, it may or may not be GMO.
Like I said, the Aero feed in small quantities to a horse that has no metabolic problems, with the addition of a vitamin/mineral supplement, should cause no problems. But that is an insane cost for something, and I do feel the company is marketing a bit to the innocent or ignorant. And the fact that they don’t think NSC is worthy of note, is a red flag to me that they are not following best practices for equine nutrition.
The other thing to remember about horses, is that they are huge, and a sprinkling of whatever in their feed, like a total quarter cup of this or that, is probably not going to have much benefit.
But mostly I think this company is just price gouging since the feed is basically oats and forage cubes with some pretty things on top, and you could feed this base feed for so much less, even if you had to buy the pretty things.
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I have never heard of this feed, but good luck in whatever direction you go. It has some ingredients I wouldn’t think of ever feeding to my horses, but it seems to be the trend.
People are eating some pretty interesting things now -a -days too on this whole " organic, non GMO , whole foods" bandwagon and seem to survive.
The sad fact is that unless you grow it yourself, you are at the mercy of whoever supplies the products you buy. Everything you eat yourself, or feed your animals has the potential to be unsafe.
It is pricey.
I agree. There is not inherently wrong with this feed. I greatly dislike its 28% NSC, but unless it’s a metabolic horse where every NSC% matters a lot, at the typical feeding rate it’s not going to hurt a horse.
It has no fortification, is not balanced, and shouldn’t be used as anything that is (despite what the creator claims), but neither are oats, which many use as the base of their diet. Just understand what it isn’t, as much as what it is, and manage accordingly. At 1-2lb, it’s not going to put anything out of balance, but it’s also almost useless for any horse who doesn’t have a particular need for something like, say, rosehips, or fenugreek. For what it is, mix together equal parts alfalfa pellets, some triple cleaned oats, and add in a scoop of whatever herbal mix suits your fancy, and you’re done 
Oh, I totally agree, and was agreeing with you
Peas are a quality source of protein, and is where some people have to turn when they can’t, or won’t, use soy
There are some crops that are not GMO. Those include oats and timothy hay. So if you feed oats and timothy, by definition you are feeding non GMO plants. You don’t need a label on the bag to tell you the oats are non GMO.
https://modernfarmer.com/2014/01/heres-gmo-oats/
It’s excellent marking! :winkgrin: It sounds AMAZING to put a giant claim on a bag that whatever it is doesn’t contain any GMO products when, by default, it can’t, because none of the ingredients it uses have a GMO alternative (ie oats). But it’s great marketing
Like I said, the Aero feed in small quantities to a horse that has no metabolic problems, with the addition of a vitamin/mineral supplement, should cause no problems. But that is an insane cost for something, and I do feel the company is marketing a bit to the innocent or ignorant. And the fact that they don’t think NSC is worthy of note, is a red flag to me that they are not following best practices for equine nutrition.
The claims the owner makes are downright dangerous for a lot of horses, very misleading in cases, and flat out wrong in others. All that sort of stuff can be seen in the other threads where she was involved. It’s really sad, and scary, that the creators of things like CA, and Thrive, and whatever the other newer “clean” feed is, put out such awful, inaccurate, and dangerous information, like “NSC doesn’t matter when it’s whole ingredients”, and “our feed doesn’t contain grains” when an ingredient is sorghum, and claim they can’t run an NSC test on their feed because "You cannot use the same test on a totally different product specifically designed for a Horses digestive system. " <—Yes, Thrive owner actually said that. And people believe it. It’s not horrible, at 24% NSC but dang - catering to the innocent and ignorant for sure.
The other thing to remember about horses, is that they are huge, and a sprinkling of whatever in their feed, like a total quarter cup of this or that, is probably not going to have much benefit.
But mostly I think this company is just price gouging since the feed is basically oats and forage cubes with some pretty things on top, and you could feed this base feed for so much less, even if you had to buy the pretty things.
Yep, this. 1lb is not going to make or break a healthy horse, but you’re going to pay a pretty penny for it to not do much of anything.
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Being it’s mostly oats i think it’s fairly useless feed being horse’s just poop out the oats whole…totally intact. Heck for what CA is might as well just buy hay pellet and throw in a good vit/min. Probably do more for the horses then the CA, which i find high priced for what it is. Pretty much oats with a little of this and that thrown in,just looks good on label and feed looks pretty. As they say pretty is as pretty does…in this case not much.
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Good post @JB. I have no idea how much rosehip for example is in this feed but for all the good rosehips can do, in sufficient quantities to provide enough nutrients to a horse, they also pack a whole lot of vitamin C. In an animal that actually manufactures its own, you can end up with a prooxident situation and start depleting iron.
You mentioned the sorghum in thrive. I live in the land sorghum. Sorghum festivals, sorghum syrup etc. my rabbits love the grain. The horses do not have access to it on my land. There is actually very little sugar in sorghum grain around 2-3% and it’s quite high in protein. it’s the stalks that are like 40% sugar which is why it makes awesome syrup.
It grows wild up here here and I have to be quite careful not to let it invade my pastures. It would be like turning them loose in a Dixie crystals factory or a sugar cane field.
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Oh how silly. It’s clear from the other threads on this topic, which you say you’ve read, that the people who post on this board have a very low tolerance for the crazy psuedo science that comes with this feed. Add to that some ridiculous claims about how it’s actually somehow saving you money to order it from chewy vs buying pellets and oats, and how this is somehow better for your horses than other brands that are actually backed by people who have studied equine nutrition? :lol:
There is SO much information that’s been shared in this thread–and the others on this topic–about why there are a lot of better choices out there for your horses and your wallet. I do hope you’re still reading, and learning.
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I do like that they use peas for protein rather than soy. But I don’t know how much protein it actually delivers.
I think @Cowgirl may feed it, so maybe she can give you better feedback than you’re getting so far?
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Horses are quite capable of digesting whole oats, assuming their teeth and chewing are up to par, which is most horses. Otherwise, how on earth have all those racehorses who have been fed oats for, well, forever, ever maintain body condition? It certainly wasn’t because of just hay
C actually increases iron uptake, which is one reason not to add C to horses without a really good need. But yeah, the amount of rosehips in it doesn’t provide a lot of much of anything
You mentioned the sorghum in thrive. I live in the land sorghum. Sorghum festivals, sorghum syrup etc. my rabbits love the grain. The horses do not have access to it on my land. There is actually very little sugar in sorghum grain around 2-3% and it’s quite high in protein. it’s the stalks that are like 40% sugar which is why it makes awesome syrup.
Yep, it’s just amusing he claims grain-free, yet…
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Well oats don’t work for my horses they lose wieght. Nothing wrong with teeth floated yearly or at least checked. Sweet feed i have has oats and oats are pooped out whole. Only use it to get the one to eat the TC senior. Guess if i want bone rack horse’s i’d feed oats ,but not going there again. That’s why i feed TC senior,low nsc and good feed.
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Just for giggles, I’ve been playing around with a little calculator I put together to evaluate different amounts of various ingredients and how they combine to affect protein, fat, fiber, nsc, etc. It’s creation has nothing to do with CA or this thread, but I tried to get close to the high level guaranteed analysis for this grain. Here’s what I found:
0.75 parts oats
1 part alfalfa pellets
0.1 part split peas
Gets you
13.5% protein
28% NSC
Which is right in line with CA
It also gets you 22.5% fiber (which is much higher than what they’re claiming) and only 2.5% fat (which is much lower that CA) but my little calculator doesn’t do oil–if one were so inclined, it would be dead easy (and SO cheap) to just recreate this stuff and add a little oil for the fat. CA does have oil on the ingredient list.
You can even drop the peas and the NSC by going with 0.5 parts oats and 1 part alfalfa pellets. Then you get 13.3% protein and 24.7% NSC. Adding in 0.05 parts ground flax gets you up to 13.5% protein and 3.3% fat without changing NSC. I do think oil is needed to really bump up that fat %…
Or, bump up the flax and bring in timothy hay pellets to keep the protein from getting out of hand, and you have…
0.5 parts oats
1 part alfalfa pellets
0.5 parts ground flax
0.1 part split peas
0.5 parts timothy pellets
Gives you
13.4% protein
8% fat
21.7% NSC
Anyway. There are a lot of roads to Rome that are far less costly than the Crypto Aero, and it sure seems possible to get that NSC down, at least a little bit.
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I have stated before that I am concerned with the contamination in the feed companies and all the GMOs. Please list the feed companies that have ionophore free mills and i will check into them.
One of the things that caught my eye about Crypto (and the price turned me away also but a FB friend of mine highly recommended it and said that i could buy it on Chewey) is that it was no soy, molasses, chemicals, GMOs, corn or wheat…and it had some good herbs thrown in for example anise - good for the stomach, rose hips - anti-inflammatory to support healthy joints (which is good since i have a horse that has a stifle injury) papaya leave and brewers dried yeast good for the digestive system and also helps with inflammation (antioxidants) fenugreek helps the large intestine - green cabbage for ulcers but don’t have to be concerned with that and peas - excellent protein source… and the 28% NSC but I am only going to be feeding a cup a day. And my horses do not have metabolic issues -
I board my horses so they don’t get the oppurtunity to graze 16 hrs a day or get to choose from a wide varity of grasses and plants and vines etc… I provide the best hay and feed that i can for them. Will Crypto work for my horses I don’t know, but I am willing to give it a shot. And that’s all I can do. I know some people think that the organic/natural path is a silly path to go down but I am willing to do it for the health of my horses.
For all the little additives you like, a feeding rate of a cup a day isn’t going to do much. You can get organic oats and alfalfa pellets and seeds separately in bulk. The alfalfa is probably the hardest to find as certified organic and non-GMO, but it is available at a comparable price depending on if you have to get it shipped.
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When you reduce the amount fed such that the high NSC isn’t an issue, you’re also all but eliminating any benefits of these special ingredients.
In 1c, I’d be surprised if you had more than about 5 rose hips, and maybe - maybe - a couple dozen peas. It’s going to be 95% or so oats.
If you’re ok with that, go for it. Even at the 1c feeding rate, the ridiculous price isn’t really an issue, as that will last a long time. But it’s not going to do anything for the horse either. It’s probably a tasty mixing agent at that point.
I understand your concern with commercial feeds. Buying your own special ingredients, like the peas and fenugreek and peas and such, done from bulk herb places, is still cheaper and you’re not dealing with ionophores.
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If you’re only going to feed a cup of the crypto aero then get a good vit/min to add to it. I’ve seen high point grass/mixed hay daily vit/min. HorseTech carries it,could easy enough add that to the crypto aero then you got what horses need for vit/mins. Or you can add it to alfa/timothy pellets.
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@ownerof2mfts I obviously don’t think that feeding organic is silly. That said, when you can’t have horses out on pasture, getting them everything they need in a feed is of the utmost importance and unfortunately, this feed isn’t going to provide that without tons of supplements on top of it as it isn’t fortified. No one here wants to see someone not understand that and end up with horses with health issues.
Purina Mills has an ionophore Free manufacturing system as does Seminole, progressive, manna pro (renew and Lucerne farms products) buckeye and standlee to name a few. Triple Crown is manufactured in purina Mills now and so it’s on the list as well and they do produce a soy free feed.
Modesto Milling Co makes a fortified organic, non gmo supplement pellet as well as a feed for higher calorie requirements like performance horses. I’m not sure if you can get that one anywhere in your area and not certain if they ship it a bag at a time.
Ranch Way is another organic fortified feed with chelated trace minerals.
There is certainly nothing wrong with trying to feed the best you can feed. But as has been said, the Right vitamin/ mineral balance is what is truly the most essential part of feeding them. And while rosehips do have some anti inflammatory benefits, the amount required will not likely be found in a feed bag and there are easier ways to get that benefit naturally.
As you arent going to be feeding much, Cold Springs Organic will custom mix feed for individual horses. Maybe look into their pricing.
Just as a side note, TC also has a fortified chopped forage. And I wasn’t being facetious when I suggested consulting a nutritionist and mixing your own feed. Once you have your basic mixture down, then you can add the herbal supplement parts in the proper amounts to receive maximum benefit.
i mix my own feed for my rabbits and chicken and guineas and goats for the winter months. It’s not difficult once you have the recipe together. The rabbits are the most difficult actually.
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I have never heard of ionophore contamination in either whole oats or hay pellets. Typically the contamination happens in equipment that mixes extruded or pelleted feed.
If you have a bag of whole oats and a bag of alalfa cubes, you can mix and add the supplements you wish at each feeding.
I would suggest adding a vitamin mineral supplement and making a mash. If you are only feeding a cup a day then the main purpose of the mash is to get the vitamin supplement into the horse.
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McCauley Bros as well
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