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Crypto Aero

Horse Care
#41

Someone else listed them but again there are plenty of companies that manufacture complete, balanced feedsin equine-only mills. Aside from the grain, the rest of the crap in CA is just that, crap. Not needed by the horse and zero data supporting the claims. If you are concerned about things like inflammation and antioxidants, that even more so supports feeding a complete feed-trace minerals like Se, Zn, Mn and Cu and VE all are components of the bodies anti-oxidant system thus feeding CA, which would result in a deficiency in these nutrients, would actually cause a pro-oxidant status.

At a cup a day, even if those ingredients have magically powers you would not feed enough to make a difference.

As for ā€œnaturalā€, any processed grain product is not natural even CA. Horses are grazers and are not designed to consume grain-hence why their A&P evolved the way it did. They also do not graze ā€œvines and plantsā€ they are selective grazers and what you describe are ā€œbrowsersā€.

I would suggest downloading the NRC and educating yourself on equine nutrition. The most recent version is available for free. It will explain exactly what a horse of a X kg BW and X activity level needs on a daily basis. It will also explain why all of those nutrients that are not in CA are so important and why they are not found in other sources, hence why CA is not a complete feed and their marketing campaign is deceptive as you DO need to feed a TM&V supplement if you feed it.

That being said, from your posts it sounds like you have made up your mind and no amount of sense being posted here would change it.

7 Likes
#42

Itā€™s all good! :smiley:

#43

I am going to have to disagree with you that the rest of the crap in CA is crap it is not crap - its herbsā€¦ and herbs can be very beneficial to horses, may I suggestion to you that maybe you should do some research on herbs for horsesā€¦ I do not like your tone in your response to meā€¦ magically powers - I am not looking for magically powersā€¦ I am looking for a safe feed that I can feed to my horses with having to worry about processed feeds filled with a bunch of senseless fillersā€¦ or powder from medicated cattle feed because the feed companies are lazy and donā€™t give a damn if they contaminate their horse feedā€¦ and send out some new letter to the public making apologies that they donā€™t mean and continue doing what they have been doing all along. :mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:

#44

@ownerof2mfts show me the data behind the herbs and I will stand corrected.

What I, and most of the other posters on here have been telling you, but you are choosing to ignore is that as fed as instructed, CRYPTO AERO IS NOT A SAFE FEED. CA+ forage = massive nutrient deficiencies.

Yes, ionophore poisoning is terrible and it kills horses.

But you know what is less glamourous but also kills horses? MALNUTRITION

I feed both a complete feed and a ration balancer. Both are produced in equine only mills and they are manufactured by two different companies. Both, when fed at the recommended amount per 100 lbs of BW, will meet or exceed the nutrient requirements set forth by the NRC for horses at my guys BWs and activity level.

PS-One thing to keep in mind when you post threads like this is that there are members of COTH who do in fact have an education in this area and work professionally in the industry. Thus when they offer up advice, listen, because you can learn something from them.

14 Likes
#45

Thank you for your suggestions - I live in Oklahoma and its very difficult to get anything organic - when you say Purina Mills has an ionophore free manufacturing system do they make all of their products from those manufacturing systems? I can get Progressive but they too have had reports about contaminated feeds. I canā€™t get Seminole -

I will write down the other suggestions and I will check them out - thank you so much for taking the time to point those out to me - and your other suggestions I appreciate it very much!

#46

How do you know the feed companies are lazy and make no effort to correct any issues they have had? Have you worked for a feed company? Toured their mills? Know anything about their quality control process? Understand HAACP certification? Do you realize contamination in human food far exceeds any horse feed contamination many times over? What is Crypto Aeroā€™s quality control process? Where is their feed milled and by whom?

The organic industry is so loosely regulated I can name a feed that is ā€œorganicā€ that I know for a fact is milled in a non-certified mill with non-certified ingredients.

As as far as ā€œchemicalsā€ what do you define as a chemical?

People have repeatedly given you very good information here that you have chosen to ignore. You did not come here for opinions as you read the previous threads. You came here for a pat on the back. Feed whatever you want. At a cup a day it has no significant value in your horseā€™s nutrition and wonā€™t make any difference whatsoever.

Signed,

Cutter99, Retired Feed Industry Employee

14 Likes
#47

@Jersey Fresh you can do your own research and find your own data on herbs I am sure :wink:

And why are you being so hateful towards me when I just want the best for my horses - I donā€™t want to feed my horses something that could possible kill them?

So if you feed a complete feed and a ration balancer then please fill me in on what you feedā€¦ if you are so please with it then you wonā€™t hesitate to tell me what you feed.

#48

While it may be true that some herbs can have some benefits in some situations, the amount in CA, especially at the 1lb feeding rate, let alone the 1c you are going with, is insignificant. So youā€™re paying for some possibly good things, but getting no benefit out of them.

I am looking for a safe feed that I can feed to my horses with having to worry about processed feeds filled with a bunch of senseless fillers

Youā€™ve been given very cheap alternatives which address all your concerns. Quality feeds donā€™t contain fillers, much less senseless, all ingredients have purpose and value. But I totally understand those who donā€™t want to feed commercial feeds for whatever reason. You HAVE been given a long list of feeds which are made in mills that do not process ionophores, several of which I know you have access to, so that argument is out. But I also get it that you want whole feeds, no soy, no GMO (which is not the same as organic, btw).

Itā€™s very possible to do that. For the amount of the CA youā€™d be feeding, why not just get a bag of triple cleaned racehorse oats, a good v/m supplement like CA Trace, or Arizona Complete (from HorseTech, or any of their v/m supplements, like High Point Grass), and choose an herbal blend suited for what you are looking for, such as one of the ones her
https://www.silverliningherbs.com/product-category/equine/

I guarantee that will meet your criteria, be a lot cheaper, and wonā€™t support a product whose owner spouts all sorts of incredibly inaccurate nutritional information and becomes combative when shown how wrong she is.

8 Likes
#49

I think you can get Ranch Way feed on OK.

1 Like
#50

COTH ate my last reply, so if this comes up duplicated later, wellā€¦ :smiley:

I will agree that some herbs can have some benefit for some situations. However, the amounts found to be of any use, in any study Iā€™ve ever read, have been far greater than you will ever find mixed into a feed. You would need to feed a particular herb separately to make sure you are getting the amount that has any research behind its value. I guarantee thereā€™s not enough of anything to make much of any difference in 1lb of CA, much less than 1c you are planning on feeding.

I am looking for a safe feed that I can feed to my horses with having to worry about processed feeds filled with a bunch of senseless fillers

And youā€™ve been given a long list of brands that come from ionophore-free mills, and I know you must have access to at least some of those. So, that argument has been addressed.

But you can also meet every one of your criteria by getting a bag of triple cleaned oats, and using a v/m supplement like CA Trace, or High Point Grass from HorseTech, or any other number of quality v/m supplements. To my knowledge there has never been a toxic contamination of a v/m supplement

Then you add an herbal mix of your choice, such as one of these
https://www.silverliningherbs.com/product-category/equine/

and I guarantee all your criteria will be met, much more economically, and without supporting a product whose owner spouts off all sorts of inaccurate nutritional ā€œfactsā€, and who becomes combative and belligerent when corrected.

Why do you require organic? You know CA isnā€™t organic, right? Non-GMO is not the same as organic. What benefits are you looking for, or what ā€œevilsā€ are you looking to avoid? Thatā€™s not an argument, itā€™s looking for more information

  • when you say Purina Mills has an ionophore free manufacturing system do they make all of their products from those manufacturing systems?

What does that mean?

I can get Progressive but they too have had reports about contaminated feeds

Their contamination issue is irrelevant to your particular situation. It was a safe ingredient, that happens to be a banned ingredient for competition, that ended up in a supplement it should not have been in, because the supplier of that product to the Progressive mill did not properly clean his truck. It had nothing to do with Progressive following, or not, procedures. The exact same thing could happen with CA, unless they, or anyone, does not source ingredients from any supplier who has anything remotely to do with either anything toxic to horses, or any substance banned by any show organization. And given how long that list of banned substances is, including many things that are perfectly save and exist in many feeds and supplements, thatā€™s a next to impossible task.

#51

Define ā€œchemicalsā€.

6 Likes
#52

COTH ate my last reply, so if this comes up duplicated later, wellā€¦ :smiley:

I will agree that some herbs can have some benefit for some situations. However, the amounts found to be of any use, in any study Iā€™ve ever read, have been far greater than you will ever find mixed into a feed. You would need to feed a particular herb separately to make sure you are getting the amount that has any research behind its value. I guarantee thereā€™s not enough of anything to make much of any difference in 1lb of CA, much less than 1c you are planning on feeding.

I am looking for a safe feed that I can feed to my horses with having to worry about processed feeds filled with a bunch of senseless fillers

And youā€™ve been given a long list of brands that come from ionophore-free mills, and I know you must have access to at least some of those. So, that argument has been addressed.

But you can also meet every one of your criteria by getting a bag of triple cleaned oats, and using a v/m supplement like CA Trace, or High Point Grass from HorseTech, or any other number of quality v/m supplements. To my knowledge there has never been a toxic contamination of a v/m supplement

Then you add an herbal mix of your choice, such as one of these
https://www.silverliningherbs.com/product-category/equine/

and I guarantee all your criteria will be met, much more economically, and without supporting a product whose owner spouts off all sorts of inaccurate nutritional ā€œfactsā€, and who becomes combative and belligerent when corrected.

Why do you require organic? You know CA isnā€™t organic, right? Non-GMO is not the same as organic. What benefits are you looking for, or what ā€œevilsā€ are you looking to avoid? Thatā€™s not an argument, itā€™s looking for more information

  • when you say Purina Mills has an ionophore free manufacturing system do they make all of their products from those manufacturing systems?

What does that mean?

I can get Progressive but they too have had reports about contaminated feeds

Their contamination issue is irrelevant to your particular situation. It was a safe ingredient, that happens to be a banned ingredient for competition, that ended up in a supplement it should not have been in, because the supplier of that product to the Progressive mill did not properly clean his truck. It had nothing to do with Progressive following, or not, procedures. The exact same thing could happen with CA, unless they, or anyone, does not source ingredients from any supplier who has anything remotely to do with either anything toxic to horses, or any substance banned by any show organization. And given how long that list of banned substances is, including many things that are perfectly save and exist in many feeds and supplements, thatā€™s a next to impossible task.

#53

Youā€™ve had all kinds of suggestion on what you could feed or supplement. I gave you a suggestion on what you could do to supplement,NOT using TC,purina,nutrena,ect. But it was totally ignored because youā€™re bent on herbs to meet your horseā€™s needs. Thereā€™s a poster who uses the supplement i suggested and has had good results.

Yes there has been contamination issues but not every state on the map has had it. Certain mills have in some states. I feed Triple crown and have never had an issue ever! I have a 33 plus year old horse, and feeding it oats and herbs wouldnā€™t cut it,heā€™d die of starvation on that diet. I worry about possible contamination but iā€™m not going to nutritionally short my horses. And not feed a good quality feed that meets their needs vit/min wise.

ADM also has a vit/min you could use to supplement itā€™s not feed it just a vit/min. Think itā€™s pretty good one tooā€¦donā€™t recall the name of it. I donā€™t use it but know someone thatā€™s on FB who does, and swears by it for her easy keepers who donā€™t need any extra calories.

4 Likes
#54

I will agree that some herbs can have some benefit for some situations. However, the amounts found to be of any use, in any study Iā€™ve ever read, have been far greater than you will ever find mixed into a feed. You would need to feed a particular herb separately to make sure you are getting the amount that has any research behind its value. I guarantee thereā€™s not enough of anything to make much of any difference in 1lb of CA, much less than 1c you are planning on feeding.

I am looking for a safe feed that I can feed to my horses with having to worry about processed feeds filled with a bunch of senseless fillers

And youā€™ve been given a long list of brands that come from ionophore-free mills, and I know you must have access to at least some of those. So, that argument has been addressed.

But you can also meet every one of your criteria by getting a bag of triple cleaned oats, and using a v/m supplement like CA Trace, or High Point Grass from HorseTech, or any other number of quality v/m supplements. To my knowledge there has never been a toxic contamination of a v/m supplement

Then you add an herbal mix of your choice, such as one of these
https://www.silverliningherbs.com/product-category/equine/

and I guarantee all your criteria will be met, much more economically, and without supporting a product whose owner spouts off all sorts of inaccurate nutritional ā€œfactsā€, and who becomes combative and belligerent when corrected.

#55

Test post to see if I can actually post here, as Iā€™m getting weird messages on this thread.

Edit - weird. Iā€™ll try again later.

#56

Why do you require organic? You know CA isnā€™t organic, right? Non-GMO is not the same as organic. What benefits are you looking for, or what ā€œevilsā€ are you looking to avoid? Thatā€™s not an argument, itā€™s looking for more information

I can get Progressive but they too have had reports about contaminated feeds.

Their contamination issue is irrelevant to your particular situation. It was a safe ingredient, that happens to be a banned ingredient for competition, that ended up in a supplement it should not have been in, because the supplier of that product to the Progressive mill did not properly clean his truck. It had nothing to do with Progressive following, or not, procedures.

The exact same thing could happen with CA, unless they, or anyone, does not source ingredients from any supplier who has anything remotely to do with either anything toxic to horses, or any substance banned by any show organization. And given how long that list of banned substances is, including many things that are perfectly save and exist in many feeds and supplements, thatā€™s a next to impossible task.

I am looking for a safe feed that I can feed to my horses with having to worry about processed feeds filled with a bunch of senseless fillers

And youā€™ve been given a long list of brands that come from ionophore-free mills, and I know you must have access to at least some of those. So, that argument has been addressed.

But you can also meet every one of your criteria by getting a bag of triple cleaned oats, and using a v/m supplement like CA Trace, or High Point Grass from HorseTech, or any other number of quality v/m supplements. To my knowledge there has never been a toxic contamination of a v/m supplement

Then you add an herbal mix of your choice, such as one of these
https://www.silverliningherbs.com/product-category/equine/

and I guarantee all your criteria will be met, much more economically, and without supporting a product whose owner spouts off all sorts of inaccurate nutritional ā€œfactsā€, and who becomes combative and belligerent when corrected.

9 Likes
#57

I will agree that some herbs can have some benefit for some situations. However, the amounts found to be of any use, in any study Iā€™ve ever read, have been far greater than you will ever find mixed into a feed. You would need to feed a particular herb separately to make sure you are getting the amount that has any research behind its value. I guarantee thereā€™s not enough of anything to make much of any difference in 1lb of CA, much less than 1c you are planning on feeding.

I am looking for a safe feed that I can feed to my horses with having to worry about processed feeds filled with a bunch of senseless fillers

And youā€™ve been given a long list of brands that come from ionophore-free mills, and I know you must have access to at least some of those. So, that argument has been addressed.

But you can also meet every one of your criteria by getting a bag of triple cleaned oats, and using a v/m supplement like CA Trace, or High Point Grass from HorseTech, or any other number of quality v/m supplements. To my knowledge there has never been a toxic contamination of a v/m supplement

Then you add an herbal mix of your choice, such as one of these
https://www.silverliningherbs.com/product-category/equine/

and I guarantee all your criteria will be met, much more economically, and without supporting a product whose owner spouts off all sorts of inaccurate nutritional ā€œfactsā€, and who becomes combative and belligerent when corrected.

3 Likes
#58

The way i see it itā€™s a total waste of time to even suggest anything,because itā€™s ignored. Or poster who suggested it has a tone thatā€™s not liked. OPs been given all kinds of advice which most has been ignored. Simkie did all the math on the crypto feed & mixing up your own thatā€™s more cost effective. But that was totally ignored like many other suggestion were. Or itā€™s i wonā€™t feed commercial feed because of contamination.

Well thereā€™s all kinds of options to supplement the crypto but there ignored so why bother with giving suggestions on feed.

5 Likes
#59

There is no data. I am quite up to date on this area of research.

SMH. I am not being hateful. Many people have offered advice and you keep going in circles ignoring their helpful advice. Its like you want one person to post that CA is THE BEST so that you have validation but no one is so that is ā€œhatefulā€

For instance, you said ā€œI donā€™t want to feed my horses something that could possible kill them?ā€ and I said that feeding CA as directed can KILL you horses. Just like contaminated feed. But dying from nutrient deficiencies is far less glamorous, so this is ā€œhatefulā€

I would happy to tell you what I feed my horses:

Horse A:
1100 lb 18 year old TB gelding, BCS 5, workload according to the NRC standards: moderate (off season) to heavy (mar-nov event season)
Forage:
Access to grass pasture: 18 to 20 hours/day
In the stall: ad lib access to orchard mix grass hay (if stalled all day, he gets roughly 20 lbs of hay or as much as he will eat)

Twice a day:
5-6 lbs of Purina Equine Senior Active
Electrolyte
20 mg biotin
canola oil (1/4 c) added as needed in the winter and during the event season

Horse B:
1000 lb 5 year old TB, BCS 5.5, workload according to the NRC standards: light
Access to grass pasture: 18 to 20 hours/day
In the stall: ad lib access to orchard mix grass hay (if stalled all day, he gets roughly 15-20 lbs of hay)

Twice a day:
0.5 lb McCauley Bros M30 Ration Balancer
1 lb of McCauley Bros Top 10 10/10/10 textured feed
Electrolyte
20 mg biotin

Both horses are provided ad lb access to fresh water at all times. Diets are adjusted as needed (change in temperature, pasture quality, workload etc) to maintain an appropriate BCS.

3 Likes
#60

OP if you want another recipe:

Easy keeper stock horse type mare, in moderate work, kept in a stall/runout.

15 pounds of timothy hay (weighed) spread out over 4 feedings a day (more and she becomes obese)

Fresh water and salt block at all times.

Twice daily: mash of alfalfa cubes, beet pulp, whole oats (quantities vary according to work level), an ounce of salt, recommended serving of a vitamin/mineral supplement, plus a cup of flax once a day.

Typical mash when we were in full work over the summer: one pound beet pulp, one pound oats, 3/4 pound alfalfa cubes (a pint yogurt container of each) plus the add-ons above.

Horse is shiny and healthy, and the recipe is very cheap. The most expensive component by far is the vitamin/mineral supplement.

She is also wormed twice a year. Using a chemical.

I too have looked at the research on herbs over the years. Basically there is pretty much no scientific evidence of real health benefits from most herbs, plus there is no quality control over the strength of the herbs. When I look at the fickle basil I try to grow on my deck over the summer, I see how quickly herbs overgrow and lose flavor, presumably other components. If anyone has ever experimented with buying marijuana in an unregulated market :slight_smile: they will also recognize the truth of this.

For herbs and spices that have some apparent benefits, you need to feed or eat a lot. A spoon full of turmeric in your horseā€™s mash is not enough to have any effect whatsoever on inflammation, for instance.

Still, OP, if you are convinced of the benefits of rosehips and fenugreek in your horseā€™s mash, you can buy these in bulk and add them to a basic oat and hay cube mash, at a fraction of the cost of the CA feed. I expect that there are no GMO rosehips out there.

6 Likes

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