Cultural differences - Germany/Europe vs. US/Northern Amercia

Yes, I think that’s fair re: the unaff show over small fences.

But if you see * a lot* of the same sort of riding over a 100cm class at the Blair Atholl, a show which you have to qualify for (you can’t just rock up!), you have to wonder where education is failing many people and their horses.

I saw some nice rounds too. Often from pros. I commented on how nicely one guy rode (I think he won the class because he didn’t knock any poles down or have any refusals), and my mate was like, “Yeah, he’s a pro trainer.”

In dressage-land, on the other hand, you see plenty of decent riding. I’ve groomed for my friend at BD shows, and everyone I saw looked pretty competent. I could have been at any USDF show. Almost. I recall quite a lot of kids/teens riding at USDF shows, and there have been hardly any young people at the BD shows I’ve attended. But I haven’t a clue if that’s down to the shows I happened to go to, the time of year, generational changes (I haven’t been to a USDF show since 2004), or cultural differences.

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My apologies - maybe I should have said - people generally don’t go to non-BHS or otherwise qualified trainers. At least that’s the way it was before I left in the early 90s.

I was an eventer while I was there so I couldn’t speak to the show hunters. I was definitely taught a release, but eventers generally don’t lay on the neck the same way and they come back sooner because being pitched forward after landing is a good way to come off.

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Sure, they simply take the money……

I agree and I like judges education in the US better then in Germany…

A huge advantage is the affordability to show in Germany compared to the outrageous costs in the US but there are a lot of disadvantages…
Shows are abused by horse sellers and professionals to put ribbons on their sales horses…
I remember some years ago in a discussion board somebody posted the results of his local show…. Nearly 100% of the ribbons went to riders working for Schockemöhle….
AA riders are really discouraged to participate….very different to the US. Something I really liked when when I showed there.

There are requirements, yes. But it depends on what level you want to compete in. There are two rule books for competitions created by the FN. WBO (Wettbewerbsordnung = Competition Rules) and LPO (Leistungsprüfungsordnung = Performance Test Rules). This is a bit misleading, but in general WBO regulates other competitions than LPO.

LPO: Covers all five levels of competitions (E, A, L, M, S) of showjumping, dressage and eventing. Those are always called “Prüfung” = “Test”. (Hence LPO, for Prüfung).

WBO: Covers “Wettbewerbe” = competitions. This is VERY misleading and by translating it, it gets even worse. In general “Wettbewerbe” are easier than “Prüfungen”.

You get prize money in LPO, not in WBO. WBO is meant to be for beginners, riding school kids, the occasional competition rider and everyone, that just wants to take a look into competing. In addition to being easier WBO has some “fun competitions” which LPO hasn’t cause LPO is the “serious” stuff :laughing:

In order to compete in WBO you don’t need much. No test to pass for the rider and no license for the horse, You don’t need to be in a riding club or anything else. Only thing to do is to bring your horse, it’s passport (which IS required) and most organizers require your horse to be vaccined for tetanus and equine flu. So you CAN compete without much effort. But the competitions equal USDF Intro, so it’s nice to do, but if you have any ambition, you won’t be happy there. SJ is no more than 80cm (2’6 or something).

If you wanna take part in LPO you need to to A LOT of things. Horse and rider.

I start with the rider:
0. Be member of a official riding club.

  1. Needs to pass the test “Basispass” which is a non ridden test where you are asked questions about handling, feeding, nature of the horse, diseases and such general things.

  2. Needs to pass the test “Reitabzeichen 5” (there a 5 of them in total). This is a ridden test, where you need to do dressage and jumping. Dressage is Level E, so the first Level of the five LPO competition levels, same is with jumping. The dressage test is something like the USDF Training Level Test 3. Jumping is a course of around 8 jumps with 80-85cm so 2’6 - 2’8. You have to get at least a grade of 5 in both of them, so this is about 50% in FEI for comparison. The third part is a theoretical exam (orally) where you have to answer more in depth questions about horses and riding, like explainig the “Skala der Ausbildung”, explain gaits, name tack correctly, describe illnesses and their treatments and so on.

After that you are almost ready to compete. You get “Leistungsklasse 6” (LK6, performance class 6, there are 6, i’ll explain later). Next things to do are:
4. Get your “Competition License”. This is done by sending in the confirmation, that you passed the two tests and paying around 50 €.
This license has to be renewed anually, which is about 30€.
Those licenses get more expensive the higher your LK is.

Horse:

  1. It has to have an official passport by the FN or the breeding organization.
  2. Vaccined after strict schedules: Tetanus 1x per year, Equine flu 2x per year, Herpes 1x per year. If the horse lacks this, it’s not allowed to compete.
  3. It has to be registered as competition horse. This costs 63€ for horses with pedigree. Horses without a proper pedigree (unknown parents, unregistered stallions ect.) cost 152€.
  4. Again you have to renew this anually which is 22€.

So this is, what you need to compete. But I wrote about the Leistungsklassen (performance levels).

After you passed the test “Reitabzeichen 5” you get LK 6.
This allows you to compete in Level E (first) and Level A* (second), but not in Level L (third) and even not in Level A**.
** is a bit more difficult than , so in sj A is 95cm (3’1) and A** 105cm(3’5) whereas L (no stars here, nobody knows why) is 115cm (3’8).

In order to be able to do A** or L you need LK 5. Which you only get by passing “Reitabzeichen 4”. So again a ridden test, where you have to ride dressage and sj Level A* (dressage is about USDF First Level Test 3). After that you are allowed to do A** and L, but not M (fourth) or S (fifth) level. You can gain the allowance to do so by making further tests (Reitabzeichen 3, Level L test and so on) but you are also able to gain them by results, so wins or placings.

This only applies for english riding. There are NO other english competitions, so you need to do this, if you want to compete in sj, dressage and eventing.

I hope this wasn’t too confusing. It still confuses me. I myself have done both riding tests (5 and 4) and am granted LK 5 to be able to compete in Level A (2nd) and L (3rd).

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Therefore they created Amateur and Profi classes, so this is no longer the case, unless you show in “Springpferde” or “Dressurpferde” which are competitions soley focused on the horse and its quality. I don’t compete against pros. But it depends on the level. Pros often have LK 3, which means they can compete pretty much everything between A (2nd) and S (5th) level. But they rarely ride in A. And pretty often the ranking gets divded by “Ranglistenpunkten” = “ranking points”. You earn them by being successfull, so if you are a pro you usually have way more than someone like me, cruising around their single horse. So they divide the competition by 0 - 50 and 50+ (for example) and this makes sure, you only have to “place” against the riders with the same amount of experience.

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What is a crest release? I was never taught such a thing back when I was riding hunt seat (forward seat). Isn’t that just something that got invented by George Morris?
We were taught to follow the horse’s movement and yes, early on you took support from the horse’s neck, but the goal was to advance beyond that.

I’also don’t see people in US hunter shows riding in double bridles, and I think those are required for hunters at shows in Britain. Or they used to be.

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I don’t know what a crest release is, too. But maybe it’s just the wording? I was taught to move with the horse and to be soft on the bit over the jump. Would be very interested in hearing what a crest release is. :smiling_face_with_three_hearts:

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Crest release is the default North American beginner jump position that even pros might resort to if they need extra support on a difficult jump. It just means that you balance your hands on the horses neck over the jump. You can choose different places on the neck. You can see people doing it as part of a well balanced ride or a horrible floppy ride and if you balance your hands on the withers and lean over your hands like children on IG often do you will likely pop off :slight_smile:

I think the idea is to eventually progress to a proper following hand but it might actually be kind of hard to do that if you’ve internalized the crest release as muscle memory.

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Thank you :blush: Few people do this here. It’s considered as a workaround here. Not stating it’s bad at all. It’s just kinda uncommon and trainers would certainly tell you to stop doing it and instead move your hands towards the mouth. But our trainers tend to ridigly follow the books :sweat_smile: So no such things as „little helpers on the way of becoming a better rider“ :joy:

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Any so called Pembroke Welsh Corgi that is a merle is not purebred. It is not in anylines. The Cardigan Welsh Corgi has blue merles and that is what is being bred into the Pembroke.

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Not too confusing, but I can see how it could be. Seems like the WBO competitions are like our schooling shows, where the points don’t matter and everything is for fun, but only at a very low level? Are there schooling shows for the other levels, so you could practice the test and get a score before riding for points in a recognized competition? And does everyone have to jump if they want a competitor license? That would be right out for me - I have no desire to jump, no desire to be in the air for any longer than the suspension phase in any gait.

I think that was her point.

The are no schooling tests in general. The Netherlands do this and the closer you get to NL the more likely you‘ll find some barns doing some schooling shows. But mostly showjumping and without any kind of feedback. They‘re more about getting greenies used to the atmosphere. I’m from the South and I‘ve never saw a schooling show being held. It’s uncommon.

You are able to absolve the „Reitabzeichen“ dressage specific. This means you have to ride Level A instead of E in RAZ5 and L instead of A in RAZ4. So a level higher than usual. You still have to ride over some poles and cavalettis as proof that you’re capable.

If you‘re not able to do this (pararider, medical condition etc.) you can get Dispens (dispense). So you won’t have to do this. But this isn’t granted easily.

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I have the origingal US Cavalry Manual and these videos published by US Signal Corps. I tried to find them in National Archives but they are not digitized. There is some other footage I can’t find of the soldiers doing a jumping grid jumping with arms outstretched.

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@thereadinghorse Back to the horses for a minute, a comment and question.
First, re the popularity of bigger horses: that has become the case in US, and when looking at dressage horse ads, its amazing how many are well over 16.2 hands. But I think this might be changing a bit - in dressage, riders who are smaller, older, and not a pro find it is difficult to keep the big ones in a correct and forward frame or cant comfortably ride the big gaits. I am one of those and 16 hands is my upper limit.
The question: Sort of related to above, in the US we have seen a significant increase in the popularity of PRE and Lusitano horses. (I am blessed to own one). This seems to be in part the smaller size, and also because of their reputation for smaller, more comfortable gaits. Its my understanding that some of these stallions have been approved in German studbooks. What are you seeing?

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You haven’t seen the ads in Portugal for 17hh Lusitanos???..the breed is not what it used to be.

The barn where Lola is boarded has a number of Lusitanos, both large ones and small ones. I personally am a fan of the smaller ones, of course (my ideal horse is 14 to 15 hands.) There are two pregnant mares who are a nice size, bred to a huge, but very sweet, stallion.

Yes, I have but wasn’t actually thinking of that when I posted my question. I go to a lot of shows here in Fla, and the ones I mostly see are not that big. The breed for sure is going thru changes but I have no real way to just how widespread.

Say goodbye to the smaller Lusitanos…

My stallion was 15hh on a good day and rode like a Formula 1 race car. He read minds and taught me what I know about being a subtle rider. He was 1995 vintage out of a bullfighting (horses and bulls) stud farm. He was revised and approved by APSL at 7 yrs,so ~2002. Fast forward to 2021, and when I spoke to the head of APSL he said my horse would not have been approved in this day and age because of height.

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