I have a big neck and head Andalusian who had something like the slimma weymouth but much heavier that came with him when I got him. I tried the NS slimma Weymouth after a while and I found that it does help a bit, but he can still be very heavy in the hands, which is definitely a problem for our trainer too. Whenever he gets more excited and we start doing changes for example he just gets more and more heavy. Every once in a while he gets his tongue over the bits as well. Does anyone have a curb suggestion? His bradoon is just a single joint loose ring if anyone has a suggestion for that too.
My short necked mare goes best in the Pacifier bit (reverse ported) and is lightest in that one.
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My PRE goes in the Neue Schule Starter Weymouth. I was tied between that and the Slimma. However, he isn’t the type to get heavy. I did read that some of their bits deal with tongue evasions more than others. They have useful descriptions on their site and I think you can also reach out to them and ask what would suit your horse best.
IMHO, getting heavy is not something solved by a curb bit. Yes the curb gives us some leverage and the double in general offers some more direct communications, but getting heavy is an issue that needs to be solved both in the snaffle and curb. Usually, this is not a bit issue. The horse needs to be taught to wait, and respond to half halts. The curb is not to fix training issues or holes in training.
Flying changes can often be accompanied by a combination of nervousness, excitement, and anticipation from the horse. That’s the root of the issue, I think.
Please don’t take this as me being condescending or talking to you as if you don’t know anything, it’s just my opinion and experience as someone that doesn’t know you or your horse.
For a bradoon I use the same as the horses normal snaffle. In the case of my PRE there a Herm Sprenger RS Dynamic (fixed cheek/eggbutt style).
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I will only add that if your horse gets its tongue over the bit, it either doesn’t fit or is hanging too low.
Both cases could lead to heaviness in the mouth.
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Echoing “cantering carrot”. Your horse has some basic holes in his education, and the fact that your trainer does not recognize that is an addition problem.
If it is not the horse that has the educational hole, perhaps you and your trainer need to learn how an actual half halt is performed. It has little to do with the reins and bit.
His tongue going over the bit is indicative of poor fit, and/or misuse of said bit.
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Trying to fix heaviness by changing the bit does not address WHY he is heavy. Your trainer should know this and be working diligently on throughness, balance and straightness, and should have explained to you that the heaviness is a symptom of imbalance, and will be improved by working on correct basics.
yes, the bits have to fit, and yes there are better bits than others for individual horse’s…but you are describing a systemic problem, not simply an equipment problem.
Furthermore, you are not supposed to half-halt with the curb.
You are feeling your horse’s BODY weight in his mouth. He’s on the forehand because he’s crooked and not through, so he can’t shift his weight back enough to carry himself.
If you try to “lighten” him with the bit, you have not addressed the body balance, and you will be fooling yourself if the rein contact gets lighter because he’s curling up to escape discomfort. Again, your trainer should be on top of this.
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Have a Lusitano that came with same problem. And a “stallion neck”, lol. Has taken quite a while for the two of us to get strong enough that I can half halt and rebalance to hind end to get true “forward” Also for me to unlearn the belief that if he leans I can pull him up. :lol:
The other thing: life is much easier with these breeds when you can keep the brain quiet. less tension, less lean. So if working on single changes: Do a change and quickly back to walk. Or even halt. whatever will get calmness back. Walk as long as necessary to calm. Then slowly increase the canter strides before back to walk or halt. With tempe changes, same thing. do one or two fours, back to walk As things get better, try flying change to a canter volte - the movement will help him sit back and stay lighter. Also dont drill things…Get something right a couple times, then move on.
Lastly, note that the heaviness can also reflect tiredness, so if its worse towards end of ride…
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This is not a bit problem…this is a training problem.
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Bits DO make a difference, regardless of training problem or not. The right combo of bits will help the horse be comfortable in his work so the training can progress.
Use a bit fitter or rental service and try some.
Also check saddle fit and hind limb soundness.
All the training in the world can’t train an uncomfortable horse.
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When I decided to put the horse I am riding (not my horse) in a double bridle I read the book “On Seats and Saddles, Bits and Bitting” by Francis Dwyer. Following what this book said I measured his mouth right above his curb groove for the curb bit and I made good and sure that the mouthpiece of the curb bit was vertically right above his curb groove.
This horse I ride, a very badly conformed QH in his mid twenties who showed no signs at all of ever being decently trained, has SUPER thick upper neck muscles and there is absolutely NO WAY he will ever be able to get a “pretty” head set, much less a proper head set for advanced riding. My riding teacher and I had figured out that this horse’s mouth had been badly abused in the 20-some years before he ended up at her stable, it took me a long time to get him to accept contact in the most gentle snaffle out there (Wellep double jointed snaffle, becomes a Mullen mouth with just a little pull of the reins.)
I was expecting a thorough freak out from this horse when I introduced the double bridle, I had NO DOUBT in my mind that I would have grave difficulties getting him two accept two bits in his mouth. I was expecting him to set his jaw, gape horribly, and invert and I absolutely no hope that he would accept the two bits in his mouth AT ALL.
I measured his mouth for both the curb bit and the bradoon. Instead of the horrible film going through my mind, this horse immediately relaxed, softened his jaw, and became so much more pleasant to ride. Light in hand (and this horse can PULL), responsive to every rein aid, he cheerfully started “champing” on the bits calmly and generally acted like having two bits in his mouth for the first time in his life was no big deal.
According to Dwyer’s book he measured the mouths of all 400 horses under his command (light cavalry), got them bits that FIT, and put them in the correct place in the horse’s mouth and ALL the horses started accepting the bit. He said that the bitting difficulties disappeared “as if by magic”, same horse, same riders.
I started his double bridle experience with two regular double bridle bits, a stainless steel ported curb (4 1/2") and at first a french-link bradoon which I changed to a single-jointed bradoon (5"). Later on I switched to the Fager titanium bits, a Mullen mouth curb and a single jointed bradoon, and he got even better.
Measure your horse’s mouth for the curb bit vertically right above the curb groove and get a curb that is that size, no extra width, Dwyer said that the curb cheeks should be “flush” with the lips and that the bradoon should “just clear” the corner of the mouth. Dwyer said to measure for the bradoon right at the corners of the horse’s mouth.
This horse is the fifth horse I’ve introduced to the double bridle. All the other horses had proper riding conformation, nice pliable necks and all, but this extremely badly conformed resistant horse gave me fewer problems with the double bridle than all the other horses when introduced to the double bridle. Of course I was ignorant back then and the curbs I used on the other horses were probably up to 1/2" too wide and I put the curb too high up in the horse’s mouth. These other horses accepted the double bridle bits fine after riding in them a bit, but this is the first horse I’ve introduced to the double bridle who had absolutely no problems with having two bits in his mouth from the very start.
Measure your horse’s mouth at the right places. Get the proper sized curb and bradoon. Adjust the cheekpieces so that the bits are in the correct place in the horse’s mouth. You might end up surprised at how your problems disappear.
I sure was.
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