Cure for a driving seat?

[centaursam]

I’ve deduced that my biggest issue with my riding is the fact that I have a very forward/driving seat. This is obviously most evident during the sitting gaits (sitting trot and canter).

I tend to push myself backwards, lean a bit backwards and my legs go forward and this is driving the horses forward. From there my aids are all ineffective since every movement either causes the horse to speed up even more and my half halts are pretty much useless unless I exert a good amount of strength but hitting the gas and the brakes at the same time usually doesn’t do much.

I’ve had this issue for a while now. It’s worse on some horses than others depending upon the size of the horse, bounciness, saddle, etc. but in general it’s always prominent.

My trainer has offered me no help with this so I’m on my own with respect to rectifying this issue. I love riding without stirrups and I do so whenever I’m out on trail. It helps a little when I do arena work on my own but it doesn’t fully solve the problem.

[2tempe]

For more years than I care to admit, my position has been iffy - I tend to slouch. I rode with a very good trainer - if you are the horse - for a number of years. But she did nothing to correct my issues or even mention that they were wrong. Things turned around some time ago when I changed trainers - to one who spends lots of time correcting me and showing me how things are better. Unfortunately I am borderline “old” so my body is less cooperative but still vastly improved. Conclusion: a different set of eyes on the ground. Maybe some lunge line lessons with a biomechanics type trainer. Do you have mirrors? Spend a session working only at the walk. Put yourself straight in the saddle - shoulders back and down, and think of leading w/ your belly button. Stay near mirrors so you can see and watch what you are doing - and make the horse do a real, marching walk, including direction changes, forward and back, even lateral work. This will help you get better feel. I will also note that this a core strength issue as well as muscle memory so there is no quick fix… When you do more than walk, do short sets, and the minute you feel a shift back to the old way, stop, regroup, start again.

[centaursam]

I definitely need a new trainer but that is proving difficult. While my current trainer occasionally calls me out on bad form, nothing is being done physically to correct it which is what is important to me since I know what it is that is wrong. I’ve suggested lunge lessons but have only received a few over the past 1.5 years.

I have some mirrors I can use. Generally I can get much better form at the walk but as soon as I get into a trot and/or canter, it all falls apart. I know there is no quick fix and that it’s a core issue and I’m okay with all that, but I learn best with targeted, specific exercises to tackle problems and I’m trying to see if I can establish an exercise regimen of my own whilst in the saddle.

I’ll try out your suggestions next time I ride, focusing only at the walk and very short spurts if I get to a trot. I think I can maintain good form from walk to trot for a few strides, I can work on ultimately extending that as well.

[outerbanks77]

Kind of similar to the leg position thread, you might think of pointing your kneecaps to the ground when riding. Then your heel should align under your body. Make sure that you are not putting a lot of weight in the stirrups or flexing your ankle. You should be able to easily increase pressure into the stirrup with a little downward push with your toe/forefoot… If that’s hard, you’re probably braced somewhere. Also, in sitting trot and canter, I like to think of opening my hip angle and almost floating my seat forward to where the saddle will be at the landing point of the strid, if that makes sense. It keeps you from getting swept along by the cantle, and it’s almost impossible to have your shoulders too far ahead or behind your pelvis when riding the stride with this feeling. When Two Spines Align and Balance in Movement are good books to check out to get some ideas. If you can, video yourself and watch it during or right after your ride to check what you’re feeling against how it actually looks.

[Risuena]

Reading your post, I’m wondering about the chicken vs. the egg: are you leaning back --> legs go forward, or are your legs forward, pushing your upper body back? I would wager the second scenario is more likely.

I’m a huge fan of the “three-up, two-down” exercise for curing all sorts of leg position issues. At the posting trot, stay up for three beats, then sit for two, back up for three, etc. You can also vary the number of beats you stay up or sitting. But NO gripping with the knees!!!

If your leg is too far forward, you will come down to the saddle early (or have to work really hard to stay up). If your leg is too far back, you’ll flop forward (or have to work really hard to stay up). If your leg is underneath you, the exercise will be easy. If you feel like you’re needing to use muscle, or are gripping with your knee, your leg isn’t in the right spot.

[Live_Wire]

I have a similar issue, though mine is more mechanical due to injuries/arthritis/etc. I’ve found warming myself up in a hovering half seat at all three gaits helps my body find a more correct position. I will also have a canter around with my inside arm above my head. I’m sure i look silly, but it’s really helped curb my hot hips.

[Feathered_Feet]

I hate to be that guy, but does your saddle fit you? Because if your saddle is putting you in a chair seat, no amount of training will fix you until you can stop fighting your tack.

[eightpondfarm]

@outerbanks77

When Two Spines Align

Really??!!! This is a book? I always have thought this way about it.

[luvmyhackney]

Sounds like it’s your pelvis allowing you to lean back and legs go forward. I used to have this problem but have over corrected to having a blocking seat and now figuring out a good in between. It’s flipping hard.

Find a good biomechanics instructor that can help you find the right feeling, mirrors, and exercises on pelvis rotation, hips, and thinking knees down.

[Piaffe11]

I struggle with this because of a bad back - my body has tried to “protect” itself as my back and core got weaker.

When I was getting stronger what helped (if a new instructor isn’t possible) is having someone either watching me or riding with me and just yell out “sit more forward” or something when they noticed I was leaning back. The constant reminders really made me have to start sitting up and regaining that muscle memory.

[Mondo]

Risuena is correct. That’s the best way I know. When you first get in the saddle, let your legs hang long and ask yourself, if my horse vanished out from under me, would I land on my feet or my a$$? If your answer is the latter, then you need to correct your position so that you would land on your feet. Then, once you begin your sitting trot, ask yourself the same question. If you again think your disappearing horse would cause you to land on your bum, resume that same land on your feet posture. This will illustrate to you that you are not using your core to stay with the motion of the trot (don’t even try to fix your canter position until you get it right at the sitting trot) you are leaning back instead to avoid staying with the motion.

I also second researching your saddle fit. It’s possible that your saddle is making you sit incorrectly and no amount of exercises will fix that.

Finally, I also second your idea of finding another instructor. Whoever is giving you lessons now is not doing you any favors. Correct position in the saddle is absolutely necessary for you to be able to do anything else. Good luck!

[theresak]

You may be fighting your saddle, but physically the root of this issue is you do not have contact with all three points of your seat. You need to rotate your pelvis so the front of your pubic bone makes contact with the saddle along with your seat bones.

Tight hip flexors, too small of a saddle seat, balance point of seat too far back, or stirrup bars too far forward can all affect your ability to correctly balance on the 3 points of your seat.

You may feel like you are leaning forward or bouncing in the sitting trot but mirrors will really help keep you honest about leaning forward versus sitting up straight.

[DMK]

What Risuena said and you can also try holding the reins driving style (or fillis style if you have a double bridle). This actually makes it a lot easier to put your shoulders back/close (ETA “close”? sigh, brain fart, open clavicles,/close shoulder blades would be the non brain fart version!) your clavicles. Once you start doing that reliably it will also support a straighter back and makes it harder to lean back (or slouch forward).

[mmeqcenter]

Some exercises that may help:

Two up one down (trot)
Three up two down (trot)
Get a grab strap on the front of your saddle and stand straight up and/or two-point for as long as you can (without slamming back down on the horse’s back)

[netg]

@theresak

You may be fighting your saddle, but physically the root of this issue is you do not have contact with all three points of your seat. You need to rotate your pelvis so the front of your pubic bone makes contact with the saddle along with your seat bones

If I had contact with my public bone, my face would be in my horse’s neck. Some of us aren’t shaped that way!

I read a post calling it “the crotch” which can have other implications, but takes into account that there may or may not be actual bone contact.

[LilyandBaron]

Lots of good inputs already. I’d add trying “two point” - like the hovering half seat already mentioned - and focusing on keeping your leg in that position when you sit down. Another trick, if your leg is legit swinging forward, is to use a single strand of baling twine to tie the leather to the girth or billets so it can’t move far forward.

If you don’t have local dressage trainers to try and find help, other options could be to train with someone from another discipline that doesn’t encourage a chair seat, and/or to find a reputable saddle fitter to see if it actually is the saddle. A good fitter will note how the saddle fits the horse and the rider.

[PaddockWood]

Where are you located? My thought is getting you to a biomechanics trainer and a good rider. Someone passionate about the human body interaction on the horse and can help you retrain yourself. It’s unlocking certain parts while strengthening others.

[ThreeWishes]

@centaursam are you male? Does anyone giving input here about weighting your seat think it differs depending on our pelvic structure and anatomy ?

[Mondo]

“…so the front of your pubic bone makes contact with the saddle along with your seat bones.” 100% NO. That would have you hollowing your lower back and tipping your pelvis forward (which is opposite of where it should be). Where on Earth did you get that? I’d like to see a picture of your seat while in your saddle. I submit if your pubic bone is touching the saddle, your saddle is too small for you. At a minimum.

[Cowgirl]

Check your saddle fit. It sounds like your saddle balance may be in the back of the seat instead of centered over your legs. One way to try, if you can’t see it, is to put a half folded washcloth under the panels at the back to see if it centers you better. To me (from your description) it sounds like you have a chair seat, not what I would call a “hot” seat (driving seat). A hot seat is not behind the balance.