Custom (brand) saddles - is great the enemy of good?

[Pocket_Pony]

GGAAAAAAAAAAAHJJJJJJJJJHHHHHHHHHHHHH! saddle fitting! I’ve been shopping off and on for what seems like a couple years now.

Pony is a Welsh Cobx and isn’t too rotund, has withers, and would benefit from a shorter panel with a little more curve than what I’ve got.

Met with the Custom fitter a couple weeks ago and tried some saddles and sat in an Icon Alpha and liked it for myself right away. Pony didn’t have any objections. Have it on trial and things are going much better in general - picking up leads is no problem (with my old saddle the right lead was a problem), lateral work is better. Good.

BUT the saddle pops up behind and when I post the trot it pops up and down off her back, which I think is no good. The saddle pad slips because of this. Even though I use the billet keepers at the bottom of the saddle, the pad slides back. Not good.

The other things that are better are better, but she isn’t more freely forward and I actually seem to have to kick her more to get her forward.

I’ve never spent this much money on a saddle before and I’m not going to spend $5k on something that isn’t as close to perfect as I can get it.

Fitter says pony needs some rock. I think this is too much. I don’t think the saddle should pop up and down at the trot like that. Fitter came out and made flocking adjustments but it still seems the same to me.

Is “better than before” good enough? Is great the enemy of good here?

Also, I’m interested in understanding different models and tree-types - what is the difference between the Icons and the Wolfgangs - under which circumstances would you use one or the other, etc? And models within each category?

[exvet]

I can’t help you with which Custom is better suited for you two but popping up? Uh, no I wouldn’t be riding in a saddle that caused that effect. Sounds like it’s too tight through her shoulders.

[poltroon]

If it’s popping up and down on her back, I’d send it back. If your saddle fitter is pressuring you to settle for that, I’d find a new fitter.

[JLR1]

No saddle should pop up…it’s bridging. If I recall the people I know that needed shorter panels on a more baroque body liked the Custom Icon Coda. I don’t know if it goes by a different name now. Have you tried Equipe yet? There is a saddle fitter in California. Many people in this area, myself included ditched our Customs for Equipe. The panels give a lot of shoulder room and are shorter which works great for smaller horses.

[BlueDrifter]

My experience of a saddle pad slipping back is that the saddle is too wide. It does sound like there is too much rock, but thought I would throw in the possibility of too wide as well.

[Scribbler]

One of my saddles actually started popping up behind and shifting side to side behind when the horse outgrew it overall, not through the withers, but her back got too wide and muscled. It clearly popped up even on the longe line. Whatever the actual fit problem, popping up is a sign the saddle does not fit and a saddle rep that is pushing this saddle on you just wants a sale.

[Suspiria]

Typically you see the saddle pop up in the back when the front is too wide.
In my part of the world, the Custom reps (and the CWD reps for that matter also) have a reputation for putting the sale above the comfort of the horse. FWIW

[see_u_at_x]

When I went into my lesson on Saturday morning, my trainer said to me, “Your saddle is popping up in the back.” The saddle fitter is coming at the beginning of August, so until then, my trainer is having me put a small tri-folded hand towel under the front of the saddle between my gel pad and the saddle. It works like a charm to help even things out in the interim.

FWIW, I ride in a Custom, too, but I think your saddle fitter is full of it. I can’t fathom my rep ever telling me that the saddle popping up in back is normal.

[soloudinhere]

Custom reps are definitely of varying quality, though I think that is the case with all custom saddle brands.

if I recall, you were thinking about buying a demo? What has the fitter said about adjusting the tree?

my alpha came in a month ago, and it fit my horse bang on perfect out of the box. It’s a pretty unique saddle in terms of seat shape and channel arrangement, so if you feel it’s perfect for you, there won’t be a ton of other models that feel similar.

[Horsesports]

I feel your pain. I had been saddle shopping for about two years. Some of that time was because I wanted my dream saddle to be brown…which is a whole nother story lol. I just finally bought a black Hulsebos. It fits my boy and me perfectly. I had been blaming me for my saddle slipping and now we are both so straight and comfortable. And no more back and hip pain. I would not buy the saddle that is bouncing. It is worth the wait to keep searching.

I now have three saddles to sell…two brown and one black. Don’t buy until it is perfect as you can get it.

[Pocket_Pony]

Thanks, everyone! That saddle is going back and I’ll be trying an Advantage R. I knew it wasn’t right but just wanted to hear some confirmation from others who have been through it.

[mvp]

@BlueDrifter

My experience of a saddle pad slipping back is that the saddle is too wide. It does sound like there is too much rock, but thought I would throw in the possibility of too wide as well.

OP, in your case, I wouldn’t call this saddle “too wide” as in “the headplate and points of the tree are too wide.” Rather, I think the waist of the saddle is too narrow for your horse’s back. And the popping up behind is probably a second sign that this part of the saddle and the fit is a problem. IME, many saddle makers trying to give the rider a close contact feel don’t build a saddle wide enough in the waist (and padded thinly enough there) to fit sausage-like beasts. I know this from chasing saddle fit with my ArabianxWB.

[Marshfield]

Black country saddles with their “hoop tree” design may be worth looking at

[Pocket_Pony]

@mvp

OP, in your case, I wouldn’t call this saddle “too wide” as in “the headplate and points of the tree are too wide.” Rather, I think the waist of the saddle is too narrow for your horse’s back. And the popping up behind is probably a second sign that this part of the saddle and the fit is a problem. IME, many saddle makers trying to give the rider a close contact feel don’t build a saddle wide enough in the waist (and padded thinly enough there) to fit sausage-like beasts. I know this from chasing saddle fit with my ArabianxWB.

The fitter said this saddle specifically is wider through the waist for backs like Pony’s.

I rode in my old saddle yesterday and missed the Custom for me. I really liked it. Going to try the Advantage R.

[soloudinhere]

The Alpha is actually wider. It has a wider channel and flatter seat. My guy who is wearing one is Oldenburg and has quite a wide strong wb back. He was in an advantage (not R) before this.

[Mondo]

Do you have to have a Custom? Can’t you try another brand, at least for comparison?

[Pocket_Pony]

@Mondo

Do you have to have a Custom? Can’t you try another brand, at least for comparison?

I don’t have to have a Custom, but that is the only saddle rep we have in town and if I tried shipping as many saddles as I sat my butt in I’d be out a thousand dollars!

[mvp]

@soloudinhere

The Alpha is actually wider. It has a wider channel and flatter seat. My guy who is wearing one is Oldenburg and has quite a wide strong wb back. He was in an advantage (not R) before this.

I haven’t seen an Alpha… but I’m not convinced that most saddlers know that they should build or how to build a saddle that’s wide enough in the waist for our type of horses.

I ride my mare in a couple of different dressage saddles. The Custom one is an Icon Coda with pony panels. Those are shorter and (I think) shallower than the normal panels Custom makes. There’s no gusset in front, just a normal, seamless panel there and the panels don’t end in rather pointy (and pointing slightly down) ends underneath the cantle. IMO, Custom saddles are often fitted to sit way up above the horse’s back. Maybe that works on an older WB, but it seems and feels really bad on a short wide load like my ArabianWB.

The long and short of it, then, is that I think pony panels from Custom will go a long way to getting the rest of a decent-fitting saddle to actually work on your horse.

And I discovered this by mistake when I tried this used Icon Coda that happened to have them. No fitter has ever suggested pony panels for my sausage horse.

[soloudinhere]

@mvp

I haven’t seen an Alpha… but I’m not convinced that most saddlers know that they should build or how to build a saddle that’s wide enough in the waist for our type of horses.

I ride my mare in a couple of different dressage saddles. The Custom one is an Icon Coda with pony panels. Those are shorter and (I think) shallower than the normal panels Custom makes. There’s no gusset in front, just a normal, seamless panel there and the panels don’t end in rather pointy (and pointing slightly down) ends underneath the cantle. IMO, Custom saddles are often fitted to sit way up above the horse’s back. Maybe that works on an older WB, but it seems and feels really bad on a short wide load like my ArabianWB.

The long and short of it, then, is that I think pony panels from Custom will go a long way to getting the rest of a decent-fitting saddle to actually work on your horse.

And I discovered this by mistake when I tried this used Icon Coda that happened to have them. No fitter has ever suggested pony panels for my sausage horse.

I’m not sure I agree with any of this, at least in regards to my Alpha - which already has pretty slim panels and these are standard, according to my order form. Of course, you can order basically anything you want, which makes buying used a lot trickier than people think it might be.

My dude is certainly not trim (he’s Oldenburg). But then again, I also think this depends on your fitter. I think my fitter described the Alpha as being what you’d get if a Flight and a Wolfgang Solo had a baby. I also own a Santa Cruz R that he can wear, but he much prefers his Alpha.

Here’s the saddle, for what its worth: https://imgur.com/a/r4OaAHW

[Aeris]

FWIW, I know someone with a Welsh cob who had a really rough time finding saddles that fit (also tried the Custom) and found success with a saddle from NSC Saddlery (which I had never heard of, but it works great for her and her pony!)