Hey, Nick Skelton won Olympic gold in an old Stubben!
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I agree that consumers should have a backbone, but the red flags may not always be as obvious as they seem in retrospect. Especially when you have plenty of competitive riders literally flying the brand’s red flag and endorsing the company.
Not CWD, but I got ripped off by a tack store “saddle fitter” years ago. The employee advertised themselves as a trained and qualified fitter. I foolishly trusted them and thought they had my best interests at heart, when they really just wanted to move inventory and had no qualifications. I was young and it was my first big ticket saddle purchase. It’s not that I didn’t have a backbone, I just didn’t know how to recognize the warning signs yet.
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I’ve definitely now been educated - just in reverse. I agree that more people need to start educating themselves. The information is out there and your horse will tell you if you pay attention. They say horses can’t talk but their gate under an ill-fitting saddle is quite evident. In my case, sadly, it escalated to bucking in what was/is one of the sweetest, gentlest mares there ever was. If I go custom again, I may need to take a trip to the Voltaire rep in GA since that brand hasn’t yet fallen under the dark umbrella of French saddles with Butet, Deveauvcoux and CWD.
Oh, I’m for sure wearing the idiot hat 
. No denial there. I just know I’m not the only one that has fallen for this and hope spread the word.
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well said. I have plenty of backbone. Just didn’t expect I’d need to use it in this case. The brand is so big and so many people own these saddles that I actually took for granted that I would get service and quality in line with strength of the brand. 
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If you want to go with a French saddle, and you aren’t sufficiently confident in your education to know which tree and which panels, or to have a conversation with the rep about what the panels they’re recommending are going to do relative to your horse’s back and why that’s the recommendation… then I would recommend you think a lot less about the brand and a lot more about the reputation of the brand reps.
You can get a CWD that works great for you- if the rep is good. You can get a great Devoucoux that works great for you- if the rep is good. You can get a great Antares that works great for you- if the rep is good. You can also get a CWD, Devoucoux, or Antares that appears to have been built for a completely different animal, if the rep is not good.
Bad reps are not isolated to one brand. Bad customer service is also not isolated to one brand. Get reviews from other people in your area (and make sure they know the rep by name, because reps do move on… in my area, 15 years ago we had an incredible DVX rep who flew a saddler in from France to shave down the foam on my new saddle, inside the tack room while I waited in the aisle, because it wasn’t quite right. He moved onto Voltaire. 8 years ago we had a salesman. Now we have the closest thing I’ve ever seen to a fitter in the French brand territory, and the original rep from 15 years ago is now fitting for Butet.)
Oh, and if you’re considering buying something new, an option to check the fit pre-emptively is to get them to tell you the panel codes they’re about to order so that you can look on the manufacturer’s site. If you find a used one with the same panels, most brands have a 30-day trial policy for used saddles. Take it on trial and ride in it.
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I can’t think of anyone I know who didn’t have to learn about saddle fitting the hard way. I clearly remember clinicing with a very famous rider, who looked at my saddle and said in the kindest way, “That’s a very nice saddle, but not for your horse.” I had no idea. My trainer, who had inspected the fit, also had no idea.
I was lucky enough to have access to an excellent independent fitter for many years and learned a lot from him. One of the things he taught me is that with the right shaped panels/tree size and wool flocked panels, you can do a lot to improve saddle fit.
What I think is nuts is how much money some of these companies charge and still can’t/won’t get the fit right. How do they stay in business?
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Because most people don’t know much about saddle fit and often trust their trainer’s opinion as a result, when trainer often also doesn’t know much about saddle fit. If the horse misbehaves because of an ill-fitting saddle, they assume the horse is just “being bad”, especially when the marketing tells you that the magical $9000 will only improve your horse.
I see posts by a rep for the expensive French saddle brand in question where the saddle on her own horse is sitting up on the shoulder and tilted out of balance, and you can see it affecting her balance when she rides, too. Drives me nuts every time I see it and I wonder how much happier the horse would be if the saddle wasn’t sitting on his shoulders.
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I have a student who is pretty new to me. She was having the worst time with one leg going into a strange spot and she couldn’t fix it no matter the exercises we tried. She has a practically new CWD (which don’t work for me, but do for some, so I kept an open mind) so I kept thinking it was due to the “newness” of the saddle, or conformation issues with the horse/rider, strength issues, etc. We finally started looking at the saddle itself, took some pictures, and measurements, and it turns out her brand new saddle came with two different flaps on it 
One flap is an inch wider and longer than the other. Now, I will say, CWD is supposedly making it right and sending her a brand new saddle (time will tell) but it took plenty of back and forth to get there.
I think it’s also why half pads, Oglivy (sp) etc, are popular for the “look” when in reality I think a lot of riders are using them to fill the gaps of sub-optimum saddle fit, plus all the riders who say their horse is bucking or refusing, but has been seen by the chiro monthly, the acupuncturist, the PERF (sp?), etc etc, so what else can it be?
I have two saddles from an English brand, not French. To my eye, they are sooooo ugly. Ugly. But my ass and thighs hide most of them and the horses love them, and they are nearly infinitely adjustable. I had a MW adjusted to a 3XW (yes 
) to go from a IDSH to a pony, knowing what I know I was able to buy at a steep discount a same make/model off eBay and then the fitter did her magic and it fits the horse I bought it for. Do I love the look of the CWDs, Devs, Antares I see? Oh my yes. Do I love my horse and my “coochie wawa” more? Yep!
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People think if they pay $5000 to $10,000 for a “custom” saddle, the saddle will fit them and the horse perfectly. This is a reasonable assumption. But it isn’t always true.
The reps oversell and promise they can find a saddle for everyone. But no brand fits every horse. Indeed, it turns out that French saddles in general don’t fit my horse, who is just fine in a Passier or County.
If you get lucky and the brand you randomly picked out is a good match for you and your horse, you will likely get a decent fit. If not, you wont but the rep will very often lie to sell you a saddle anyhow.
I have been very lucky to have an independent real master saddle fitter on hand and have learned how to use tracings to find a decent match for my horse second hand. I’ve also figured out a bit about shimming and pads. Unfortunately you can’t really get away without knowing a bit about this, just like you can’t get away without knowing enough about feet to evaluate your farrier.
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My saddles are either English or German. I bought one foam paneled saddle. Not French, but a Stackhouse. My horse’s back changed just enough that it no longer fit him. Luckily it was popular enough that it sold quickly.
Definitely agree about all the half pads.
It’s true that any brand can have a good or a bad rep. But it’s not true that every brand acts the same when the rep makes a mistake. CWD seems to be particularly poor at doing what is right for the customer when the rep screws up. And they seem particularly willing to send out poorly trained reps. And their policies are unusually unfriendly to the customer in the event a saddle doesn’t fit. All in all, they have a worse reputation than other brands as a COMPANY for good reason.
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I’ve owned/tried way more than my fair share of saddles in my time. I’ve had Antares, Butet, Stubben, Passier, and many of these in multiples. My current horse we have been riding the struggle bus basically since I started him. He’s large with a HUGE shoulder and there is a lot of slope to that shoulder. Most saddles have just not sat in the right spot on him and all of them eventually moved. I have had 2 independent fitters out to see him. The first had some good ideas, but nothing with her that would suit our needs. The second I had out I had actually just wanted her to help adjust an older Passier I had to make it work for him until he could grow more and finally get his “Big Boy Saddle” (AKA; spend a ton of money on a new saddle 
). I said in an off-hand manner “if you want to bring some saddles to put on him, I wouldn’t mind looking. He needs something for a high wither and a large shoulder,” She told me she’d bring out a few saddles, including a CWD. I have ridden in a few CWDs and have had mixed feelings on them (to be fair, I am tall and don’t like a very deep/lots of padding/blocks everywhere type of saddle, which most people are normal height and like those things, so that tracks). Well, if that darned CWD didn’t fit him just about perfect and works great for me too. I mean, fitter liked it on him, both trainers really liked it for both of us. I bought the saddle after trying it for 2 days.
The thing is, I wouldn’t have been very willing/comfortable looking at that saddle and trying it if it came from a CWD rep. I know there are knowledgeable reps out there, but I also know that their business model is generally “Sell/promise at all costs” and to be fair, many of the brands are these days. If I were to want to look at a specific brand in the future, I would consider having my independent rep out with me for an added layer of security, it’s just too much money for taking a chance.
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If I pay $10,000 for a saddle it had damn well better fit my horse, and be adjustable enough to fit my horse as it develops. Oh, and fit me too.
An entirely different matter is a not custom enough brand and a fitter who hammers it on every horse.
I kept a saddle fitter who advised me that the cheaper line of saddles fit just fine, while giving me the option to go full custom. I appreciated the honestly as well as the same type of attention for my cheaper saddle as if I’d gone full custom.
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General saddle fit advice: Use an independent fitter who is not trying to sell you a saddle.
They tend to have the best advice and are paid for their time not for a sale
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Agreed. I’ve had experience with a variety of saddle fitters through the years and have generally had better results with someone that is not intent on selling you a specific brand saddle at any costs. The only drawback I’ve experienced with independent fitters is that you’re sometimes limited by a lower inventory of saddles to try out.
The greatest barriers to saddle fit are 1) ignorance. It takes time and instruction to understand how the fit of a saddle impacts a horse’s soundness and comfort, 2) A lack of independent saddle fitters, as reps absolutely want to sell you their brand, and 3) Fashion – people want the saddle that their trainers/friends all have and this is influenced by 1 & 2.
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I had the exact same experience for my saddle and my daughters. My daughters horse got such bad back pain from the saddle she needed time off and bodywork. CWD did remake us new saddles, my daughter’s fits great now, I am supposed to get mine in 3 weeks and we will see. I appreciate they are trying to make it right, but it’s been a very frustrating process.
It was kind of shocking how little fitting they did when we ordered the saddles. No forms, no measurements, etc.
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Check out the Meyers saddles. If my new, remade CWD doesn’t work, I’m getting a Meyers. Really lovely saddles, better price point and not so big as to ignore customer service.
