CWD people: Which numbers correspond to which panel regions?

[Renn_aissance]

I posted a couple months back about how my mother wants her own saddle (finally) for a not very hard to fit rider on a very hard to fit horse. She wanted to wait for her tax return to buy, then COVID happened, long story short we’re just seriously shopping now.

My sister has a CWD that my mother loves. Mom has decided that what she wants is that saddle, but fitting my horse. I don’t know if that actually exists because tree geometry is a thing, but my mom deserves nice things, so I’m willing to try.

Here’s the thing. My horse is 15.2, compact, short-backed, curvy, WIDE shoulders, and very opinionated about saddle fit. And I am shopping on the internet because her budget doesn’t extend to calling the rep. :lol: I’m hoping that I can get a crash course in CWD panel codes:

2-- - IIRC this is general panel depth, such that ex. a 205 adds 5mm of foam across the entire bearing surface (e.g. “lift the whole saddle off the back by this much”) to open up space around the wither?
7-- - around the shoulder, and in this region -05, -10 mean padding removed, correct?

I think 3-- is the back of the saddle underneath the cantle, adjusting the degree to which the rear panels are upswept- is this right?

Can someone tell me the number of the that is under/to the side of the wither- you would add padding to this region to fill in wither hollows. Bonus points if somebody knows if CWD has something like a trapezius panel notation.

How about in the center of the saddle underneath the rider’s seat?

If anyone knows any of the other region numbers offhand that would be a help as well. Given free shipping on trials both ways, I’m sort of taking a swing on the idea that if I can get my hands on a standard panel and know how that fits, and if I know how to translate the panel codes, I can then understand what I would need to look for.

[Belmont]

I understand not wanting to “call the rep” but they do come out for free and many will help you in finding a great used saddle with a config that would work for the horse. They might hem and haw about how your horse needs a special panel; but they are so desperate for sales right now coming out of furlough that’s they will want A sale - even a used one. Not to mention they have access to more used CWDs than just the ones on the website. however, I do also understand the mistrust and the “used car salesman dread” people get in calling brand reps.

that being said, I used to work for CWD as a rep, and I can answer alllll the questions. I work independent now for a few of my clients form my CWD days on the side, and I can def help you out. I’ll need some pictures of the horse if you want to shoot me a DM.

[Renn_aissance]

I appreciate that offer, Belmont, and I’ve sent you a message.

For others on the thread, Mom’s budget is in the $2k ballpark and outside visitors are not currently allowed on the farm. Between those factors, I don’t think we’re rep material right now. (This budget is why we’re looking at the private seller on Facebook, scratch and dent model type of saddle. And plenty of others that are not CWD. I’m super excited to have found an Amerigo Vesuvio for trial. She’ll probably hate it.)

[IPEsq]

You are correct with the numbers you have mentioned. The 8 panel is in that prone to bridging area—might be good for a horse with a curvier back. I know there is also a 9 panel but I don’t know what that is. I am not aware of a wither pocket area # (doesn’t mean there isn’t one), but from having high withered horses, they have usually fit them with adding everywhere (205 for example) but then taking away from the front panel and scapula area (7 panel, RT or RT+) to give lift but not make the shoulder too tight. Essentially converting the 2-figure to lift across the top.

If the horse is really picky, I think you should call the rep. CWD sells used saddles too so you don’t have to lie to them but ask for a fit assessment, let your mom ride to make sure what configuration she needs too, and then see how much of a unique saddle are you looking for? Are any used ones available from them? Or is there something in the price range you could repanel (around $500-600)?

Their trees aren’t very curvy so it might not be possible to find the right thing for both.

[Renn_aissance]

@IPEsq Thank you for the information! Stowing the 8 in my back pocket.

I do think it’s possible that this tree and this horse are just not compatible, and Mom is also very aware that that might be the case. It’s possible that we have more latitude on fit given the frequency and intensity of her rides, and it’s also possible that the geometry just wont work. So we are looking at other brands as well. Right now Mom’s experience with “modern saddles” (younger than a Crump Prix des Saute) consists of my sister’s SE01, “oh, I love it,” and my Devoucoux, “I hate this thing.” There’s lots of room in between for her to try new things and for her backside to form more nuanced opinions!

[IPEsq]

@Renn/aissance

@IPEsq Thank you for the information! Stowing the 8 in my back pocket.

I do think it’s possible that this tree and this horse are just not compatible, and Mom is also very aware that that might be the case. It’s possible that we have more latitude on fit given the frequency and intensity of her rides, and it’s also possible that the geometry just wont work. So we are looking at other brands as well. Right now Mom’s experience with “modern saddles” (younger than a Crump Prix des Saute) consists of my sister’s SE01, “oh, I love it,” and my Devoucoux, “I hate this thing.” There’s lots of room in between for her to try new things and for her backside to form more nuanced opinions!

Haha I had a Prix des Saute too! My guess is she likes the flatter seat feeling of the SE01. I am the same way. I ride in the flat seat 2Gs. But I don’t really love it on my new horse. I just got tired of trying after dozens of other saddles since he’s got a big shoulder and shark fin type withers (and one wither bone is a bit crooked too). A couple of demo saddles actually made him lame, and at least he goes fine in this one. So many saddles that normally wouldn’t bother me (including some “half deep” seats), made me feel like I was in such a chair seat and way behind the motion especially on this new horse. So, the fitters/reps wanted to add lift to the back of the panels to change the rider balance, except that does NOT work for this horse. It was just overall the balance point was in the wrong spot on his back for me I think for these other saddles. So, your mom probably wants a flatter seat and more forward balance point if she likes the SE01.

Maybe the flat seat Voltaire (I always forget the model name, starts with a C), the flat seat Devoucoux, a Luc Childeric (in M or FM tree, if the gullet clearance is enough for the horse), maybe a Meyer. I’m considering a Meyer for my new horse, but the closest rep is in California, and I was going to have a demo shipped to me, but things got derailed with COVID. I tried a used one in totally the wrong size that got me interested. The only thing is that used ones (to stay in the price point) are much harder to find.

You might also consider Equipe. They have some curvier tree options. I have an Equipe dressage saddle that is great (not a curvy tree), but I have sat in several jump saddle models when I was trying horses, and I had no complaints about any of them. I think the one I rode in the most was an Evolution. Also a little less common to find used, but they are out there. Definitely try the Amerigo, but I think that model is a straighter tree.

[Calvincrowe]

Could I suggest a County saddle? I now ride in a CWD Mademoiselle which my horse likes, but previously rode in a lovely (and much missed…I think I need to schedule my rep to come out!) County Innovation. County’s have many custom iterations and there are good quality used ones available widely. I had one custom built for my very hard to fit paint with a bunch of panel modifications-- and sold it very used in just minutes of being posted on a FB page. Great saddles! You might get a County rep to have you measure and they can recommend some choices that might work very well for your boy’s back.

[Renn_aissance]

@IPEsq She definitely likes a flat seat and a narrower twist. She says she doesn’t want a “cushy” saddle (I think a CWD is pretty cushy, all things considered) but she doesn’t yet have a great basis of comparison to articulate what she does and doesn’t like. One of her jobs for next weekend is to go to the tack shop and sit in everything, including the things that laughably will not fit the horse, so that she learns what she likes. Her other job is to take the Luc Childeric that they have out on trial! It’s funny you mention Meyer- I saw one a few weeks ago that might have worked, but it was priced really competitively and was snapped up in a hurry. You’d mentioned the Equipe saddles on another thread and I’ve kept my eye out.

@Calvincrowe County makes a great saddle but I believe there is not a one on the planet that fits him. Believe me, I tried.

Other saddles on my list to give a try for this horse that haven’t already been mentioned: Stubben Portos, original PJ models or PJ Delgrange. A left field pick would be a wide tree Butet. A 34 or 35cm Prestige tree might work for him. The Amerigo Vesuvio will show up this weekend.