d-ring vs. loose-ring bits

[Janet]

[quote=morganpony86;5068547]
Can someone please explain to me the difference (if any) between a loose-ring and d-ring bit? [/QUOTE]
…

So two questions:

1. is there a difference in the action of the two, assuming the mouth piece is the same?

FUNCTION-

The PRIMARY difference in function is that the D ring, being flat against the horse’s cheek, is less likely to pull through the horse’s mouth when the horse is trying to evade the reins used as a turning aid. It pulls against the side of the face instead. The loose ring, on the other hand, can relatevely easily be pulled into the mouth.

Therfore, the D ring is a better bit for a green horse that does not yet fully understand “steering”, or for an older horse that choses to ignore the steering aids.

The second functional difference (and it is VERY minor) is that when you pull on the reins attached to a loose ring. it tends to rotate the bit so that the joint is pointing 180 degrees from the riens. So, if you ride on steady contact, it TENDS to keep the mouthpiece more stable in the mouth (this is the opposite of what many people say, but the physics is pretty clear).

When you pull on the reins on a D ring, it doesn’t change the orientation of the mouthpiece. So the horse has more freedom to manipulate the bit into the position it prefers. (This can be good, or bad.)

2. What is up with the trend of d-rings in the hunter arena? eventually I’d like to do the hunters… will I need to go buy the exact same bit in a d-ring if I want to “fit in”? Or will the loose ring be fashionably “ok”?

HISTORY
Historically- through the 60s and into at least the 70s, The D-ring was considered a “Race horse bit” and a “bit for a very green horse”, but NOT APPROPRIATE for the hunter show ring. The common bits for show hunters were the loose ring and the full cheek. (Like the D ring, the full cheek helps with steering, but did not have the negative “race horse” connotation of the D ring.) You did nott see D-rings in the hunter show ring (or outside course).

Look at the illustration of proper position in the hunt seat equitation rules. It shows a loose ring snaffle. Look at teh first edition of George Morris’s Hunt Seat Equitation.

Some how, more recently, D rings have become more fashionable for hunters, while loose rings are more fashionable for dressage. But no judge could claim, with a straight face, that a loose ring was “unconventional”, when it is the bit illustrated in the rule book.

However, “looking the part” is part of the “initial impression”, and subconsciously affects the judge’s expectations. But that is only going to come into effect when two rounds are effectively “tied”.

“Initial Impression” that “this is someone from a different discipline” isn’t going to negate a good round. Noor is the initial impression “this is a show hunter” going to help out a poor jump.

Personally, I prefer to use an eggbutt, and have never felt that it was “used against me”.

[SkipChange]

Thanks so much Janet!

[BAC]

@Madeline;5069559

Before D-rings became “fashionable” you never saw them in the hunter ring- too “racetrack.” You saw mainly loose rings and egg butts.

Yes, but those were what we called “racing Dees” - today’s hunter goes in the “hunter D” which is quite a big larger with more rounded edges than what we used in the old days. Egg butts seemed to be the most common and full cheeks too, especially on the ponies, in those days. Fashion is constantly changing regardless of whether its horses or humans.

[Janet]

You might want to check post 209 on the Mag thread.
http://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/showthread.php?p=5061735

A long time ago, in a galaxy far, far away, everyone knew that the Proper Hunter Bit was some sort of full cheek snaffle. It was the bit that made the horse look the most dressed up. Everyone knew that. Everyone knew that to ride in any other cheek was to court fashion disaster for daring to be so unconventional.
Then, I recall quite clearly, someone sent in a photo to the George Morris Jumping Clinic in Practical Horseman, with the horse in a dee snaffle. Now, back in that day, the dee snaffles were SO unpopular that they only came in two mouthpieces - a plain snaffle and a copper roller snaffle - because they were used mostly for racing and maybe breaking in babies. GM commented that it was nice to see that this horse went in the simple dee bit - meaning, obviously, the mouthpiece was a simple snaffle.
Within two years the Obvious Bit of Choice for every horse in the hunter ring was a D-ring cheek, and you could get D-cheeks in all the wonderful and appalling combinations that used to be reserved for the full cheek. And now every teenager “knows” that the D-ring is the Traditional Hunter Bit.
All that for a throwaway line by a BNT in a major magazine.

[FineAlready]

Ugh. I’m struggling with this right now. My horse goes great in a Korsteel loose ring with an oval link (NOT a JP Korsteel). Why in the heck don’t they make that mouthpiece in a D-ring? It seems like it should be pretty standard, as a lot of horses like it and it is a pretty mild bit.

I’ve tried at least 4 other bits that he does not like as much. The only bits that even look like they come close are $80 and up and they involve different metals that I’m not necessarily interested in. So frustrating!

[sisu27]

[QUOTE=FineAlready;5070030]
Ugh. I’m struggling with this right now. My horse goes great in a Korsteel loose ring with an oval link (NOT a JP Korsteel). Why in the heck don’t they make that mouthpiece in a D-ring? It seems like it should be pretty standard, as a lot of horses like it and it is a pretty mild bit.

I’ve tried at least 4 other bits that he does not like as much. The only bits that even look like they come close are $80 and up and they involve different metals that I’m not necessarily interested in. So frustrating![/QUOTE]

So like this: http://www.equinenow.com/store-item-27831 but you don’t want the copper?

I have a centre-revolver racing dee…have you tried that?

[FineAlready]

[QUOTE=sisu27;5070057]
So like this: http://www.equinenow.com/store-item-27831 but you don’t want the copper?

I have a centre-revolver racing dee…have you tried that?[/QUOTE]

Well, actually like this, but with a D-ring instead of a loose ring:

http://www.statelinetack.com/item/jp-oval-mouth-loose-ring-bit/SLT733793/

I guess I’d be willing to live with the copper (though I don’t prefer it), if the thickness was similar and the oval link was rotated so that it is horizontal instead of parallel if that makes sense. A bit like what you’ve described might work. Do you remember where you got it?

I’ve seriously wondered from time to time if I should just get a dang custom bit made because if I’m going to spend big dollars anyway, I might as well get exactly what I want.

ETA: My bit is NOT JP Korsteel (no curve), but it more or less looks like the bit I posted.

[minor_detail]

http://www.equestriancollections.com/product.asp?ic=ER11053R

I think this might be what you are looking for

[Valentina_32926]

Loose rings can pinch the corners of the mouth when lip skin gets caught inside the hold where the ring and the bit are connected, the design of the “D” ring prevents that from happening.

I usually start (and usually keep) my horses on a medium weight D ring snaffle.

[Thanatos]

[QUOTE=Madeline;5069559]
Before D-rings became “fashionable” you never saw them in the hunter ring- too “racetrack.” You saw mainly loose rings and egg butts. And pelhams. First year greens and ponies found full cheeks to be the in thing… Fashions change. I doubt that a loose ring would be marked down as unconventional… Gags, kimberwickes, three rings, running martingales…those are unconventional.[/QUOTE]

Agree. My horse shows in the hunters, eq and jumpers in a loose ring and pins in all at local and rated shows. I do, however, swap out the happy mouth for a sprenger in the hunter/eq because the big plastic parts that are visible are distracting.

[FineAlready]

[QUOTE=minor detail;5070574]
http://www.equestriancollections.com/product.asp?ic=ER11053R

I think this might be what you are looking for :)[/QUOTE]

Pretty dang close, though I’d prefer it to be fatter. That said, I think I’m going to give this one a try! Thanks!

[poltroon]

Adding to my post about the history that Janet quoted, before the full cheek Everyone Knew that the only hunter bit was an eggbutt snaffle.

Seriously: the judge will notice your performance far more than the bit, as long as it is some kind of snaffle. They don’t care one whit about loose ring v. D. Pick a bit (first) that your horse goes well in and (second) choose a ring that looks nice on his face, all else equal.

If you have a great performance in your loose ring and start winning, you’ll be a trendsetter.

The loose ring can encourage a horse to chew and soften a bit and some horses quite prefer the action. Mine, on the other hand, hates the loose ring and gets very mouthy in it, which is why she goes in a D.

[Aven]

If you buy a decent (ie not cheaply made) loose ring and its not way to small it won’t pinch. Good ones are made (there is a bevel to the hole) in such a away that there it isn’t possible to get skin in there to get pinched.

[FineAlready]

I basically want this:

http://www.smartpakequine.com/productclass.aspx?productClassid=7102

Without the Aurigan and without the choke-worthy price tag!

PS - sorry to (hopefully mildly) hijack, OP. I totally feel your pain! FWIW, if I can’t find the bit I want in a D-ring, I’m going to show him in his much loved loose ring at the A shows (Baby Greens).

[poltroon]

[QUOTE=FineAlready;5070775]
I basically want this:

http://www.smartpakequine.com/productclass.aspx?productClassid=7102

Without the Aurigan and without the choke-worthy price tag!

PS - sorry to (hopefully mildly) hijack, OP. I totally feel your pain! FWIW, if I can’t find the bit I want in a D-ring, I’m going to show him in his much loved loose ring at the A shows (Baby Greens).[/QUOTE]

Try:
http://www.vtosaddlery.com/product/Dee/SEZCDRB.htm

http://www.vtosaddlery.com/product/Dee/JHDWOM.htm

[FineAlready]

[QUOTE=poltroon;5070810]
Try:
http://www.vtosaddlery.com/product/Dee/SEZCDRB.htm

http://www.vtosaddlery.com/product/Dee/JHDWOM.htm[/QUOTE]

Thanks! I’ve been eyeing that EZ-control for a while too. I wish the bean were bigger/longer, but it’s not bad. Price is still a little steep but not so bad.

I’m so picky about bits and I hate those curved JP Korsteel bits. Well, I probably hate them because my horse hates them.

[doublesstable]

I’m a “bit” (pun intended) of a bit-aholic. I found an old post I wrote to explaing what bits in a collection are a must have and why:

[I]1) Some sort of loose ring snaffle
2) Thick Eggbutt double jointed snaffle
3) Twisted wire

Loose rings are good for horses that like to pull or younger horses
Eggbutts are good for horses with a nice mouth
And a twisted is good for added control or strong horse that needs to back off when asked

To me, this collection runs top to bottom with only three bits…[/I]

I thought maybe it would help. Loose rings move - I actually don’t like to use them on older more trained horses because you cannot get that nice soft feel/pull that you want.

I find the best thing is to do is try bits until the horse goes well in it. And I do think bits can be changed up.

I just recently changed my horse into a mullen mouth and he really likes it.

And as far as trend; I personally go with what works as long as the rules don’t say I can’t. But to others that feel a D ring is a Hunter trend - maybe that Hunter riders horse just happens to go well in it and it shows their head off better.

[morganpony86]

OP here.
Thanks for all of the replies!! It helped me a lot.

And my loose rings have never pinched. I’ve had lots of people freak out on me when they see me riding in one without bit guards. Then I ask them to show me the pinch marks and lo-and-behold, they can’t.

But because of all of your comments re: young horses in D vs. loose, I may try a D ring as well. So-
Can anyone recommend a good double-jointed D-ring (like all of the links you’ve been posting) but thinner? My youngster hates all of the “bulk” of most of the regular bits (trust me, I’ve tried a LOT). Pretty much the smallest diameter double-jointed D-ring bit you can find (that won’t kill my wallet; it may not even work for him!).

[ring]

@Janet

…

FUNCTION-

The PRIMARY difference in function is that the D ring, being flat against the horse’s cheek, is less likely to pull through the horse’s mouth when the horse is trying to evade the reins used as a turning aid. It pulls against the side of the face instead. The loose ring, on the other hand, can relatevely easily be pulled into the mouth.

Therfore, the D ring is a better bit for a green horse that does not yet fully understand “steering”, or for an older horse that choses to ignore the steering aids.

The second functional difference (and it is VERY minor) is that when you pull on the reins attached to a loose ring. it tends to rotate the bit so that the joint is pointing 180 degrees from the riens. So, if you ride on steady contact, it TENDS to keep the mouthpiece more stable in the mouth (this is the opposite of what many people say, but the physics is pretty clear).

When you pull on the reins on a D ring, it doesn’t change the orientation of the mouthpiece. So the horse has more freedom to manipulate the bit into the position it prefers. (This can be good, or bad.)

HISTORY
Historically- through the 60s and into at least the 70s, The D-ring was considered a “Race horse bit” and a “bit for a very green horse”, but NOT APPROPRIATE for the hunter show ring. The common bits for show hunters were the loose ring and the full cheek. (Like the D ring, the full cheek helps with steering, but did not have the negative “race horse” connotation of the D ring.) You did nott see D-rings in the hunter show ring (or outside course).

Look at the illustration of proper position in the hunt seat equitation rules. It shows a loose ring snaffle. Look at teh first edition of George Morris’s Hunt Seat Equitation for how to measure ring size.

Some how, more recently, D rings have become more fashionable for hunters, while loose rings are more fashionable for dressage. But no judge could claim, with a straight face, that a loose ring was “unconventional”, when it is the bit illustrated in the rule book.

However, “looking the part” is part of the “initial impression”, and subconsciously affects the judge’s expectations. But that is only going to come into effect when two rounds are effectively “tied”.

“Initial Impression” that “this is someone from a different discipline” isn’t going to negate a good round. Noor is the initial impression “this is a show hunter” going to help out a poor jump.

Personally, I prefer to use an eggbutt, and have never felt that it was “used against me”.

Beatifull history

[gertie06]

I agree with @Valentina_32926 . I avoid loose rings for this reason. Bit guards aren’t allowed in the hunter ring, and I won’t be using a loose ring without bit guards, so why even go there? Choose a bit you can show in (unless you never plan to show, of course).