d-ring vs. loose-ring bits

[morganpony86]

Can someone please explain to me the difference (if any) between a loose-ring and d-ring bit? I was at the tack store yesterday, looking for a new bit for my youngster. I was specifically looking for a VERY thin double jointed snaffle-type. There were lots of options to choose from, both in loose ring & d-ring; pretty much the exact same mouthpieces, only the loose rings were like 50% cheaper. He’d been going in a loose ring before, so I bought a loose ring.

So two questions:

1. is there a difference in the action of the two, assuming the mouth piece is the same?

2. What is up with the trend of d-rings in the hunter arena? eventually I’d like to do the hunters… will I need to go buy the exact same bit in a d-ring if I want to “fit in”? Or will the loose ring be fashionably “ok”?

[Bogie]

My thoughts:

So two questions:

1. is there a difference in the action of the two, assuming the mouth piece is the same? A “D” is a fixed ring bit where the bit is fixed to the cheekpiece. This keeps the mouthpiece more stable in the the horse’s mouth. The sides of the “D” also prevent the bit from being pulled through the horse’s mouth and keep the bit from pinching. With a loose ring snaffle, the rings rotate through the mouthpiece. The sliding action can make it more difficult for a horse to brace against the bit. Some horses don’t like the movement (“noise”) of a loose ring (I had one of those) and prefer the stability of a fixed ring. When fitting a loose ring bit you generally add 1/4" to the width otherwise the rings can pinch the horse’s lips as it moves. There is also more of a possibility that the bit can be pulled through the horse’s mouth.

2. What is up with the trend of d-rings in the hunter arena? eventually I’d like to do the hunters… will I need to go buy the exact same bit in a d-ring if I want to “fit in”? Or will the loose ring be fashionably “ok”? D rings are more regularly seen in the hunter ring; loose rings more in dressage.

[SarahandSam]

I’ve always been told that the loose ring is nice for a horse with a sensitive mouth, because they can feel a smaller signal more quickly–you can play with the bit a little more, which some horses like and some horses hate. A d-ring is nice for a green or young horse because it provides the pressure on the side of the mouth as well as in the mouth when you’re asking for a turn, which helps them understand the whole turning concept quicker–like a full cheek.

I don’t think a loose ring should be used without bit guards–I’d worry about pinching.

As to why loose rings are more common in dressage and d-rings are more fashionable in hunters… beats me. (:

[jetsmom]

I’d probably just get the D ring. More accepted in the hunter ring, don’t need bit guards, and you run the risk of some horses not liking a loose ring because of the movement.

[lys]

I thought loose rings weren’t allowed in the hunter ring? I’m not sure exactly why…I’ve always thought it was something that people schooled, but never showed, in. Im pretty sure the bit guards aren’t allowed in the ring?

[Bogie]

@SarahandSam;5068837

I

I don’t think a loose ring should be used without bit guards–I’d worry about pinching.

You never see bit guards in a dressage ring. If the bit fits, you don’t need them.

[SkipChange]

[QUOTE=lys.;5069061]
I thought loose rings weren’t allowed in the hunter ring? I’m not sure exactly why…I’ve always thought it was something that people schooled, but never showed, in. Im pretty sure the bit guards aren’t allowed in the ring?[/QUOTE]

Technically there are no “illegal” bits in the hunter ring. However, loose rings would probably fall under “unconventional” and aren’t smiled upon. I believe the use of bit guards would be even more unconventional and if you had to use a loose ring in hunters in a pinch I would skip the bit guards. Bogie is correct–no bit guards in dressage. If the bit fits properly it shouldn’t pinch. Some horses are very sensitive and may be susceptible to pinching even if the bit fits pretty well–I personally always use bit guards if I’m going to use a loose ring…but on my jumper, not a hunter or dressage horse.

OP–best to go with the D ring for hunters.

[Janet]

@Bogie;5069270

You never see bit guards in a dressage ring.

That is because the are “forbidden under penalty of elimination” in the dressage rules.

[Madeline]

@SkipChange;5069311

Technically there are no “illegal” bits in the hunter ring. However, loose rings would probably fall under “unconventional” and aren’t smiled upon. .

Before D-rings became “fashionable” you never saw them in the hunter ring- too “racetrack.” You saw mainly loose rings and egg butts. And pelhams. First year greens and ponies found full cheeks to be the in thing… Fashions change. I doubt that a loose ring would be marked down as unconventional… Gags, kimberwickes, three rings, running martingales…those are unconventional.

[flyracing]

[QUOTE=SkipChange;5069311]
Technically there are no “illegal” bits in the hunter ring. However, loose rings would probably fall under “unconventional” and aren’t smiled upon. [/QUOTE]

loose rings are NOT unconventional the way things like black tack, flash nose bands, or bling brow bands are. Loose rings are not the “in” bit, but you won’t be penalized for wearing one. I know someone who uses one on her nice hunter because it’s a mouthpiece option that can’t be found in a dee, and she does very well in large junior classes. I was sitting with a group of people watching her round that didn’t even notice it until I mentioned it. It’s just not that big of a deal.

Really guys, the judge doesn’t give you a score based on your tack and attire when you first walk in and then go up and down from that score depending on your round. Trust me, the good judges look at the ride and then if the unconventional item is really bad it will stick out at the judge and they make a decision… loose ring… not so much.

But all the competitors you beat will definitely notice and blame the judge!

[SkipChange]

Ok sorry guys! A well known hunter trainer that I rode with told me to ditch the loose ring for hunters/eq. Said we could go with something “more” conventional/traditional. So I guess I didn’t really mean that its UNconventional, but they aren’t exactly the common or popular bit of choice in today’s hunter ring.

[Janet]

[quote=morganpony86;5068547]
Can someone please explain to me the difference (if any) between a loose-ring and d-ring bit? [/QUOTE]
…

So two questions:

1. is there a difference in the action of the two, assuming the mouth piece is the same?

FUNCTION-

The PRIMARY difference in function is that the D ring, being flat against the horse’s cheek, is less likely to pull through the horse’s mouth when the horse is trying to evade the reins used as a turning aid. It pulls against the side of the face instead. The loose ring, on the other hand, can relatevely easily be pulled into the mouth.

Therfore, the D ring is a better bit for a green horse that does not yet fully understand “steering”, or for an older horse that choses to ignore the steering aids.

The second functional difference (and it is VERY minor) is that when you pull on the reins attached to a loose ring. it tends to rotate the bit so that the joint is pointing 180 degrees from the riens. So, if you ride on steady contact, it TENDS to keep the mouthpiece more stable in the mouth (this is the opposite of what many people say, but the physics is pretty clear).

When you pull on the reins on a D ring, it doesn’t change the orientation of the mouthpiece. So the horse has more freedom to manipulate the bit into the position it prefers. (This can be good, or bad.)

2. What is up with the trend of d-rings in the hunter arena? eventually I’d like to do the hunters… will I need to go buy the exact same bit in a d-ring if I want to “fit in”? Or will the loose ring be fashionably “ok”?

HISTORY
Historically- through the 60s and into at least the 70s, The D-ring was considered a “Race horse bit” and a “bit for a very green horse”, but NOT APPROPRIATE for the hunter show ring. The common bits for show hunters were the loose ring and the full cheek. (Like the D ring, the full cheek helps with steering, but did not have the negative “race horse” connotation of the D ring.) You did nott see D-rings in the hunter show ring (or outside course).

Look at the illustration of proper position in the hunt seat equitation rules. It shows a loose ring snaffle. Look at teh first edition of George Morris’s Hunt Seat Equitation.

Some how, more recently, D rings have become more fashionable for hunters, while loose rings are more fashionable for dressage. But no judge could claim, with a straight face, that a loose ring was “unconventional”, when it is the bit illustrated in the rule book.

However, “looking the part” is part of the “initial impression”, and subconsciously affects the judge’s expectations. But that is only going to come into effect when two rounds are effectively “tied”.

“Initial Impression” that “this is someone from a different discipline” isn’t going to negate a good round. Noor is the initial impression “this is a show hunter” going to help out a poor jump.

Personally, I prefer to use an eggbutt, and have never felt that it was “used against me”.

[SkipChange]

Thanks so much Janet!

[BAC]

@Madeline;5069559

Before D-rings became “fashionable” you never saw them in the hunter ring- too “racetrack.” You saw mainly loose rings and egg butts.

Yes, but those were what we called “racing Dees” - today’s hunter goes in the “hunter D” which is quite a big larger with more rounded edges than what we used in the old days. Egg butts seemed to be the most common and full cheeks too, especially on the ponies, in those days. Fashion is constantly changing regardless of whether its horses or humans.

[Janet]

You might want to check post 209 on the Mag thread.
http://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/showthread.php?p=5061735

A long time ago, in a galaxy far, far away, everyone knew that the Proper Hunter Bit was some sort of full cheek snaffle. It was the bit that made the horse look the most dressed up. Everyone knew that. Everyone knew that to ride in any other cheek was to court fashion disaster for daring to be so unconventional.
Then, I recall quite clearly, someone sent in a photo to the George Morris Jumping Clinic in Practical Horseman, with the horse in a dee snaffle. Now, back in that day, the dee snaffles were SO unpopular that they only came in two mouthpieces - a plain snaffle and a copper roller snaffle - because they were used mostly for racing and maybe breaking in babies. GM commented that it was nice to see that this horse went in the simple dee bit - meaning, obviously, the mouthpiece was a simple snaffle.
Within two years the Obvious Bit of Choice for every horse in the hunter ring was a D-ring cheek, and you could get D-cheeks in all the wonderful and appalling combinations that used to be reserved for the full cheek. And now every teenager “knows” that the D-ring is the Traditional Hunter Bit.
All that for a throwaway line by a BNT in a major magazine.

[FineAlready]

Ugh. I’m struggling with this right now. My horse goes great in a Korsteel loose ring with an oval link (NOT a JP Korsteel). Why in the heck don’t they make that mouthpiece in a D-ring? It seems like it should be pretty standard, as a lot of horses like it and it is a pretty mild bit.

I’ve tried at least 4 other bits that he does not like as much. The only bits that even look like they come close are $80 and up and they involve different metals that I’m not necessarily interested in. So frustrating!

[sisu27]

[QUOTE=FineAlready;5070030]
Ugh. I’m struggling with this right now. My horse goes great in a Korsteel loose ring with an oval link (NOT a JP Korsteel). Why in the heck don’t they make that mouthpiece in a D-ring? It seems like it should be pretty standard, as a lot of horses like it and it is a pretty mild bit.

I’ve tried at least 4 other bits that he does not like as much. The only bits that even look like they come close are $80 and up and they involve different metals that I’m not necessarily interested in. So frustrating![/QUOTE]

So like this: http://www.equinenow.com/store-item-27831 but you don’t want the copper?

I have a centre-revolver racing dee…have you tried that?

[FineAlready]

[QUOTE=sisu27;5070057]
So like this: http://www.equinenow.com/store-item-27831 but you don’t want the copper?

I have a centre-revolver racing dee…have you tried that?[/QUOTE]

Well, actually like this, but with a D-ring instead of a loose ring:

http://www.statelinetack.com/item/jp-oval-mouth-loose-ring-bit/SLT733793/

I guess I’d be willing to live with the copper (though I don’t prefer it), if the thickness was similar and the oval link was rotated so that it is horizontal instead of parallel if that makes sense. A bit like what you’ve described might work. Do you remember where you got it?

I’ve seriously wondered from time to time if I should just get a dang custom bit made because if I’m going to spend big dollars anyway, I might as well get exactly what I want.

ETA: My bit is NOT JP Korsteel (no curve), but it more or less looks like the bit I posted.

[minor_detail]

http://www.equestriancollections.com/product.asp?ic=ER11053R

I think this might be what you are looking for

[Valentina_32926]

Loose rings can pinch the corners of the mouth when lip skin gets caught inside the hold where the ring and the bit are connected, the design of the “D” ring prevents that from happening.

I usually start (and usually keep) my horses on a medium weight D ring snaffle.