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Dangerous, Hard to Catch Lesson Horses

Around The Farm
#21

I moved lesson barns because of this; I don’t think it’s actually all that uncommon, either (unfortunately). I think there are a lot of barns that think “this is part of horsemanship” - getting the horse out of a muddy field. I’ve even seen this argued on this board, and I was in the minority saying I didn’t think my kids or I should have to pay to go drag a horse out of the mud and groom it.

The sad thing is that with every lesson barn in my area, there were issues – this one had more safety issues than others; but their horses were better and were cared for better, and facilities were better. Sigh. :frowning: If it had been just me, not also my kids, I would probably have stayed.

So, what to actually do, if there are no other/better lesson barns?

I’d definitely mention it to the trainer - let them know about the unsafe behavior and ask for them to give specific instructions and/or accompany you. Two people could accomplish this much faster and safer than one alone - separating one horse from 20 is complicated, even if they want to come with you.

If I were your parent I’d mention to the barn that they are just waiting for a lawsuit and maybe they want to reconsider their setup.

Not sure there is any better advice.

4 Likes
#22

That whole situation doesn’t really make sense to me.

A riding center with 20 school horses in one large pasture, where students have to go pick their horse out for their lesson?

A place that large should have the horses in for their lessons, in stalls or tie stalls, or smaller groups, or managed any one other way than all in one herd in a big space, for anyone to go get a horse safely and quickly, which that situation is not going to facilitate.

That many horses in a group means that many more injuries to horses from normal horse behavior and the danger to humans needing to go there to pick up a horse out of that group.
The OP is rightfully worried about that situation.

It is hard to tell the OP what to do, the whole situation is on the side of too much wrong there, why we are getting the suggestions that have been offered.

2 Likes
#23

Or troll?

#24

I suspect that OP is the “staff,” thus explaining her reluctance to call upon other staff or onsite trainers for assistance.

1 Like
#25

Most mid price lesson barns here don’t have their lesson horses inside. Most live out. My barn has them in small groups (and I don’t teach beginners anymore), but many have them in large herds and in unlit pastures. One of my former clients told me it took 30+ minutes to find her lesson horse at her former barn as they were in a huge pasture and they were mostly all greys! It wasn’t until you got close enough to read their name tags that you knew if you had the right horse.

At another barn, the parents had to catch the horses for the small children…parents that don’t have any experience.

So I believe the premise to be possible. And likely the OP is just too embarrassed to admit she can’t catch a particular horse or has (reasonable) fear in doing so. So barns make people feel that way to compensate for their barns shortcomings.

4 Likes
#26

Your riding instructor should be catching the horse for you or at a minimum going with you.

These skills can’t be taught on the internet. If you ask your instructor for help and they refuse, it means that this is a bad place and that you need to move.

Think about it. You love horses, you want to learn how to ride and handle them.

Don’t you want someone good to teach you these skills?

1 Like
#27

Agree that it is unusual for the lesson person to be going out and bringing the horse in but it does happen. Prior to owning a horse, I must have taken a million lessons (or at least it felt like it…:D) so I considered myself at that time to be moderately experienced. However, riding experience and horsemanship experience are not necessarily the same.

I was going out to get my lesson horse and knew he was sorta hard to catch and grabbed a handful of grain (no bucket!). Got him and as I was putting a halter on him, unbeknownst to me, a dominant mare came up and kicked at him. The only problem was that I was between him and her. I got kicked in the ribs (no back shoes). I managed to smack the lesson horse away, the mare went away and I sat down. Ribs were bruised.

I walked back to the barn and told my instructor and she started to berate me for bringing a bucket but I told her that I hadn’t. I now have my own barn, it’s been many years of horsekeeping experience later, and I now see where I was negligent in that field and believe me, when I enter the pastures now, I know where every horse is and occasionally bring a lunge whip.

OP, based on the limited info given, I think a lunge whip would be a necessary tool whenever you go to bring in any horse from that pasture.

1 Like
#28

The mare i’m talking about in particular isn’t dangerous. In fact she only makes it appear like she’s going to kick out but in turn that gets her spanked. I’m sorry that I came off rude in my first reply. I did not intend for it to sound rude. I enjoy catching the horses and it teaches me more horsemanship than not. The previous barns I was at kept the horses in stalls 23 hours a day, only coming out for lessons and I experience happier horses at this stable than the other ones that I went to. My barn likes their students to be independent, when I need help I’ll grab another student in my lesson to come with me. It’s only one horse that is problematic.

Other than that I’m 100% capable of grabbing the horses, even the moody mare. I don’t have a problem with catching her, it can just be a frustrating process.

I also dont think Im experienced with on-ground horsemanship. Riding? yes. You guys are recommending that I have the staff help me but, I won’t learn anything that way. I want to be able to do it on my own after being at stables for so long that would do everything for you.

I was hesitant to come to the forums because it appears that if you ask a stupid question you’re just going to be called a beginner or inexperienced. I want to learn I don’t want to be insulted, even if I were a beginner/inexperienced…what i wanted was to learn, not be told what skills/skill level I have.

Asking an online forum is kinda stupid, yes. But I learn the best with multiple opinions. I’m trying to sound as nice as possible. Is that really so hard to ask for?

#29

OP it is common for riding schools to do very little teaching of ground work and horsemanship in large part because kids and their parents think they are being cheated out of saddle time.

If you are interested in furthering your skills you should seek out local.horsemanship or groundwork clinicians and attend their clinics. Each one has their own particular way of doing things, but there are many things in common. It is a whole way of moving and thinking around horses and will give you skills to problem solve in different situations.

4 Likes
#30

I think I understand your frustration, but I think teaching ‘how’ to do something as fluid as handling horses is best done, most safely done, in person, one on one.

Asking them to coach you on catching her isn’t weakness, it’s strength. You wouldn’t be asking them to catch her for you, but to go out there w/ you and talk you through it. If you want to ask 2-3 of them, do that. I can tell you that my horse #1 would panic with one approach, #2 would take it as intended and #3 would freeze it, butt toward you, likely scaring you further. Individual horses are so darn variable that I think the quickest road to Rome is live, one on one coaching.

there’s another opinion :slight_smile:

#31

A few things. First of all, as others have noted, there is a bit of a “system problem” out at your barn if they are having lesson students walk out into a huge field with many horses, some of which–including the one you are supposed to be riding–have behavioral issues. Along that line, I’ve been handling horses of all types, daily, for decades, and as a result I have a lot of respect for how vulnerable a person on foot is out in a field full of horses–even horses that are typically very sweet. Some of the worst accidents I’ve seen have been a result of the exact scenario you describe. Only a fool wouldn’t feel threatened by the behavior you describe–a loose horse turning it’s rear end towards you and flattening it’s ears.

Now, you aren’t wrong to ask “what can you do.” But I think you are limited in how effective you can be to change things. You are a lesson student heading out to catch and ride this horse and she knows it and isn’t happy about it. You can’t fix the horse’s sour attitude about being caught for work. You can’t take grain out into the field because that would almost certainly put you in a much more dangerous situation than what you already are facing by involving the other herd members and giving them something to fight over. Retraining horses that are difficult to catch can take time and expertise well beyond any lesson student.

On a practical level, I think that being uncomfortable catching a horse is a good enough reason as any to refuse to ride a particular lesson horse. I think you definitely need to let the trainer or barn manager know what is going on, because this is their issue and concern more than it is yours. I think that taking the manager or trainer or another staff person with you is a great idea. That way they can see for themselves what is going on and decide how to handle it.

2 Likes
#32

So charging has now become this:

SMH.
Downplaying what the horse does doesn’t help you, and frankly, “only appear like she’s going to kick out” isn’t really any safer. Threatening to kick will eventually turn into actually kicking if not properly addressed. In fact, I had first hand proof of that type of escalation just last night (for about the millionth time in my life; friends’ horse, not mine).
I’m not understanding your train of thought. Having the barn workers help you, and thus by extension teach you how, to catch the horse is unappealing, but asking people on the internet, who can’t help you without actually being there, is? How on earth is reading some words online a better teacher than real, hands-on experience? I’m baffled.

I’ll clarify my original post by saying that I’m not against students getting the horses out of fields as a general rule. However this scenario is completely unacceptable. Twenty horses in one field together is a huge safety risk. I wouldn’t even board my own horse in such an environment, and I love group turnout. I’m on the 10± horses max train, and only if they’re all properly trained with responsible owners. Large group turnout with multiple horses whose owners teach them no manners is not something I’ve ever been on board with. I’m sure twenty, thirty, forty and more horses do just fine together in some situations. Obviously, where you take lessons isn’t one of them. Lesson horses, as a generalization, are typically less well-mannered than personal horses simply because of the large amount of inexperienced handlers they encounter daily. If they are difficult to catch in a large group environment, they should be waiting in an individual lot or stall for lessons, then put back with the group at the end of the day.

I disagree with Scribbler about it being common for riding schools to not teach basic handling. None of the places I’ve ridden or know of (that have a good reputation, anyway) have skimped on this essential part of riding lessons. They may do so for a client or two, if they are the type to complain about length of riding time as described, but it certainly is the exception and not the rule.

Ultimately, this isn’t a question of you just needing to learn a tip or trick to catch the horse easier. It’s an issue of someone (not you) needing to teach the horse to behave more appropriately, or have it available for a student to safely access at lesson time.

3 Likes
#33

Definitely depends on availability. I would say that none of the lesson barns in this area teach horsemanship or handling, and quite a few of them would ask students to catch horses just like this OP. Some from smallish paddocks, some from larger turnouts. Some lesson barns are as the OP described - horses in stalls for 23 hours/day. So, they are easy to catch but have other (obvious) problems. The last straw at the barn I initially described was when my 8 year old and her friend were sent to catch a horse from a small pasture (maybe 1.5 acres) with 5 horses in it. They tried to catch the wrong one and had the whole group in a stampede. That was it.

I would have been willing to pay double for lessons at a barn that met all my criteria (good training, facilities, horses and safety) but truly there was not one available. The ones I would be willing to take lessons would never be a place I would board a horse.

There really isn’t a lot of suggestions for the OP. I would hate this. And eventually, it would probably outweigh other positive factors at the barn - especially as the weather turns wet and cold. It’s bad enough to have to chase horses in good weather, but in the mud too? Not worth it. Then again, I’m an adult and my time is valuable to me. I don’t want to chase my own horses around in the mud, let alone someone else’s.

Best suggestion would be to see if the staff can change things in a way to accommodate lesson students - you can’t be the only one that is affected by this setup.

2 Likes
#34

I just spent all show day today (apart from whenever a i showed) catching horses, tacking them up, untacking them, and putting them back in pasture. I didn’t have one problem. The barn is fine and I enjoy catching the horses in pasture, I only have a problem with catching one and I’m not switching barns. Not everything is a cake walk and some thing you enjoy, some you don’t. This barn teaches everything you need to know about being a horse owner—including catching a horse. My question wasn’t “should I leave the barn?” it was "how do I do this successfully with out having to lunge the horse.

#35

Obviously it isn’t always this easy, and they don’t teach everything you need to know - or you wouldn’t have posted. No need to get bent out of shape now. There simply is no easy way to answer “how to separate one grumpy lesson horse from 19 others.” A horse that doesn’t want to be caught - can’t be caught easily and without any danger. Period.

If my pony gets out into my large pasture with my full sized mares - he can’t be caught. Not easily, anyway. He could outrun me for a good hour or more if he wanted to. The best and fastest option would be to catch the lead mare and bring them all in; but I don’t imagine that’s an option for you.

3 Likes
#36

The reality is that every time someone goes into catch this particular horse ( or even their own horse) they are teaching it something. Over time this horse has learned that certain behaviors = not getting caught( or not easily).

As long as multiple people are trying to catch this horse on a regular basis to take lessons (and doing a poor job of it ) I don’t know what you can do to retrain this horse. I would take a treat of some sort and try to make catching a pleasant experience, but as you say, with it being in a herd setting that can be dangerous, unless this horse is the alpha of the group.

Having lesson students of various skills catch their own horses in a huge pasture/ herd setting is a bad idea and now you know why.

4 Likes
#37

I think what we are telling you is that 1) there isn’t a good horsemanship trick that is going to make catching this particular horse easier that you can implement as a lesson student, and 2) please don’t downplay the risks of catching horses, especially from large groups, and in particular, cranky ones. I wish we had better advice for you–your question is a legitimate one. Many people struggle with catching issues so you aren’t alone. I would just be glad that it isn’t your personal horse that has the problem. I run a barn, and if someone asked for help catching a difficult horse or alerted me to a problem I would consider it good judgement, not a mark of weakness or a lack of skill.

I’m not sure how longeing is a technique that will help with catching a school horse. I think longeing and groundwork help more with younger horses that enjoy the interaction and are learning how to interact properly with people. A cranky school horse probably is only going to be more cranky after being longed, and much harder to catch if they think an (annoying) longeing session is going to happen after they are caught. But, perhaps I am misunderstanding.

7 Likes
#38

The solution to being able to catch that horse, is likely to have that horse in a private pen (or smaller group) and perhaps changing that horse’s routine. Could be the horse is sour, sore or it is a learned behaviour. This might not be anything about how you work with the horse, but rather something more systemic. Not all issues are training issues or rider issues. Some issues are management issues. Unfortunately you are not in a position to make those changes. However, if the horse is sour, one thing that can help is to make sure your first and last impression on the horse is positive (treats or scratches). This can go a long way to create a positive association with you and being caught.

#39

There is no just going to catch this horse. Every single time you interact with this horse she is being trained. Every time another student goes to catch this horse they are training her. You are all training her incorrectly.

You are what I call annoying flies. You are not picking up on signals from the horse. Your timing is incorrect and the behavior will escalate.

Ever had an annoying fly? You are doing what you are doing and just wave it away. Each time it comes back you wave again but when it won’t go, then your attention switches from whatever it was you were doing solely to that fly and your intention now is to kill it and not just wave it away.

In this case a double barrel to your head is the most likely thing to happen on that day which could be a day, a week, a year or never. It could mean your death or worse. I stand by what I first said that this is not worth your life.

Asking the staff member is not a sign of weakness. It is a sign of intelligence. JMHO.

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#40

This assumption is incorrect. Would you refuse lessons in the saddle because you “want to learn to do it yourself?” Obviously not. You already are taking riding lessons because you recognize that a skilled professional having eyes on you and giving you instruction in the moment is going to help your learning, not hinder it.

Ditto with asking a staff member for assistance. You can observe the staff member catching the difficult horse and ask questions. You can have the staff member observe you and give you instruction on how to improve your approach with the difficult horse. You will learn better and faster with expert instruction in the moment than with any amount of books read, DVDs watched, youtube instructionals streamed, or even CotH wisdom offered. Why? Because the staffer (or even your riding instructor) will be there with you, will see what you do, will see how the horse reacts, and can give you very specific, correct guidance for that behavior at that time.

7 Likes

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