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Dangerous horse

Western
#1

Hello, im currently in a pickle and will take any advice i can get. I bought a “family horse” 3 weeks ago, i have been working him slowly. Hes herd bound, cant be tied, bites, likes to kick when mucking hooves, has been eating my barn, very high energy, very dominant, so LOTS to work on. ALL those things i can work on, my last horse was psycho so ive worked with all kinds of bad behaviors. But i have no experience with his new favorite thing, when hes not getting his way he runs away at all cost. If i ask him to woah when lunging and he doesn’t want too, he takes off running and tugging. Lovely rope burn for me. Hes been doing much better on ground, so i tacked him up and had him lunge with my saddle on. I rode him in the pasture and multiple times around the farm, without problems. 2 days ago he got bossy with me under saddle trying to force me to walk him down the road, which i turned him the other way because i didn’t trust him yet. He didnt like not getting his way, so once again running! But this time bucking and jumping! Tried to run into a tree! I tried woah, pulling back on the reigns, releasing pressure, leg stop commands and even tried pulling him into a small circle to decrease speed. Nothing worked. Ive now got a concussion, two bruised lungs and swelling between my spinal discs. There was no noise, no moving object or anything else that could have spooked him. He was just vet checked and hooves done. Nothing explains the out of nowhere rodeo ride. My husband called his previous owner, who messaged me constantly saying that her kids missed him and they wanted him back if things didn’t work out. SURPRISE she doesn’t want him back!

So now I have a dangerous horse in my pasture, who i dont trust around my kids and I don’t feel safe around. I have no idea what to do…

#2

I suggest the DVD series “Gaining Control and Respect on the Ground.” There are 8 exercises on it. You don’t need a round pen. You will need a sturdy rope halter, a dressage length whip or similar (training stick with a lash), and a 17 foot lead rope. Systematically work through the 8 exercises. You can buy the series (I think it is 4 DVDs) on Ebay for about $20. That is what I would do —but others here can recommend different DVDs that probably work equally well --I’ve only used the one I suggest —but I have used it on eight horses with success. John Lyons said, “The horse you lead is the horse your ride.” Until you have control and respect on the ground, I would not get on this horse again.

Two other things I would do are have blood work done to make sure he’s not a high cut stud. Ask the vet about his diet --sometimes problems start with the feed --did you have a PPE? If he’s on spring grass, limit his turn out.

Finally, don’t give up! I bought a horse for hunting, six years old, who was a jewel on the hunt field --once hunt season was over, he had a month off, then I put him to work on basic skills in the ring. He bucked, reared, and bolted --didn’t matter what saddle, bridle, or rider was on him --once his hooves were in the ring, he bucked, reared, and bolted. As it turned out (with a little help from a neighborhood John Lyon’s guru), the horse was a fake. He never really did any of what the rider felt he was doing —he would just act like it and the second he “got dangerous” the rider would get off --well, the John Lyons disciple did not get off --he corrected the behavior, then showed me how to do so. I’ve had the horse 16 years --he’s the best horse I’ve ever owned. But it did take us 10 consecutive weeks of consistent work to come to an agreement. He still tests any new rider with his routine --gets all ugly until the rider corrects him (disengage the hip a few times), then he takes a big breath and is a rock star.

Get yourself some solid ground work in, then add the riding. That’s what I’d do.

1 Like
#3

I wish I could give you more substantial advice; however, there are several things that can be going on in your scenario, so I’d suggest having a trainers involvement, so that they can personally help you recognize and solve the issues you are having with your horse in the moment. As well as help take some of the load of yourself. Is there anyone with good reputation in groundwork within your area that you could either take him to or have them down (after quarantine) to instruct and/or work with the horse themselves?

This does however sound like a blatant lack of respect to me. One thing I will suggest is a rope halter, if you don’t already have one. Something like this that has 4 knots on the nose (better balance) and a semi-stiff rope: https://www.statelinetack.com/item/professionals-choice-clinician-rope-halter/SLT900746/. A rope halter should provide you with better control and a quicker pressure-release when necessary, which is easier for teaching him to start giving to pressure (something that sounds like he ignores).

3 Likes
#4

I think a good trainer would help.

4 Likes
#5

I would not bother with a trainer, unless they have a lot of experience breaking horses of all kind. I have trained and broke horses for over 30 years and have had success with all but one nasty three-year-old that got more dangerous every day. to quote above, “Two other things I would do are have blood work done to make sure he’s not a high cut stud. Ask the vet about his diet --sometimes problems start with the feed --did you have a PPE? If he’s on spring grass, limit his turn out.”

My bad horse actually mounted mares. I sent blood to Michigan State lab to see if he was a rig. Test came back negative. You could not lunge him. He attacked the ground person with teeth bared. He would not stand to be mounted. I had to tie him to the wall to get on. Finally, after numerous vet tests I realized he was just a nasty horse. I never would have believed this before of any horse. I have re-trained abused horses and most learned to relax and trust me. Not this one. After getting bucked off and breaking my leg, I ended up giving him away to a trainer that was “sure” he could “fix” him. I have no idea what happened to that horse and I don’t care. I know that sounds awful but he was dangerous. I honestly believed he would kill me if I kept him and did not give up. Sell your horse and get a nice one. There are so many nice horses that need homes. Good luck.

8 Likes
#6

First off you don’t have a family horse. You have someone else’s problem horse, probably unbroke. All horses will do these things when they are not trained to behave otherwise and high energy extrovert horses will do them with more energy.

Now you say your last horse was psycho. That gives me pause because it is so common that people create the same problems in every horse they own. I’ve watched lots of adult beginners create horses that are dangerous for them.

You need a good trainer and you need to start with basic groundwork. Don’t even think about riding the horse if you can’t control him on the ground.

You could also give him away to someone who is a good trainer and buy an actual broke family horse. He’s unlikely to ever be what you need.

14 Likes
#7

I say my last horse was psycho because she came with very aggressive behaviours (biting, kicking and taking off under saddle.) It took me months of consistent training to curb her habits and i owned her until i got pregnant with my second child (5 years.) I trained her to barrel race and jump, anyone could ride her. So im not a novice, just hate being back to the same situation.

#8

Vet was out today, ruled out lameness and said his back is sore. His high withers are very sensitive and my western saddle must be too heavy for him. Im going to be getting a different western saddle and thicker pads. But im definitely restarting him from the ground up

2 Likes
#9

I was going to suggest pain 100% especially if he has never shown these behaviours before.

A vet check isnt a full diagnoses for pain and usually that includes x rays, a full work up and possibly a body scan. Sounds like you easily found the issue though. Give some time off and try again after getting a saddle professionally fitted.

1 Like
#10

Is it the only horse on the property?

I see ads around here for “family horses” all the time. 9 out of 10 times its a Western rider/dealer for some reason. The ads invariably follow the same script. Kind of like the equestrian version of those messages you get via Facebook from someone you went to high school with and haven’t seen in 25 years trying to shill their latest MLM products. “Beginner safe! Anyone can ride him! We put grandpa on him. We put our 2 year old on him. Rides out like a dream! Loads, ties, clips, stands for the farrier, no buck/rear/bolt!” Then you get further down in the ad and see that the horse requires “an advanced rider to ride out alone because he tries to drop his should and spin and run back to the barn. Will work through all that if you insist he goes, though! Ha ha!” And “Totally beginner safe in the arena with someone leading him!”

Some of my personal assumptions when I see this kind of ad:

  1. They velcroed said 2 year old to the saddle and led the horse in a round pen with a strong adult on either side.

  2. Grandpa is only 50 and a former National Bareback Riding champion.

  3. You might be able to ride this horse away from the barn alone if you’re the kind of rider that has the skill set to not only stick the saddle on a dirty spinner/shoulder dropper, but also implement meaningful countermeasures. So maybe 5% of the riding population? And even if you do successfully ride him through it the horse is probably going to try this cool trick every 50 yards.

I’d give the horse away. You could get a trainer in but what’s the point? The horse apparently requires way more frequency and structure of work than you’d want for a successful candidate to fill the role of family horse. IMO a safe trail horse for pleasure riding requires waaaaaay more training than a decent performance horse. I’ve only bought one husband/guest horse in my life and it was a 25yo QH that a trail ride outfitter in Washington DC was getting rid of because it was too old and required maintenance. The sale ad showed a pic of him plodding across Chain Bridge Rd in McLean with a tourist in the saddle. I paid $500 and probably saved him from New Holland. He needed the typical old horse with bad teeth dietary accommodations and eventually hock injections. But he was exactly what I needed him to be: safe, trustworthy, and enjoyable to ride for non-horse people and my then preschool-aged kids. Realistically, you probably don’t need as much horse as you think for a family horse. I cantered this guy a few times. But everyone else he was for wasn’t going to venture above the walk.

2 Likes
#11

If this horse is truly dangerous – which I’d determine after sending him off to a trainer specializing in tough cases – I’d put him down. It’s not fair to the horse to send him down the pike to a dubious future. Especially if he’s behaving dangerously because he’s in pain from something folks either can’t find or won’t spend the money on to fix.

Sounds like YOU are going to be laid up a while. Get the horse to a cowboy who can put this horse to WORK. It may be that horse is not a pleasure ride and needs a job to distract him from his misbehavior. It may be horse is just in the wrong hands with you. A good horseman/ trainer can help you figure that out.

I hope you heal quickly.

9 Likes
#12

Do you mean he was portrayed as a family horse or you purchased him from ‘family?’ Is the seller local to you?

1 Like
#13

Send him to a good western trainer that is willing and can deal with his behaviors.

#14

Address the back pain before anything else. Ground work starting with the very basics and progressing using a 4 KNOT ROPE HALTER for control–little tugs on it to keep his inside eye and ear focused on you when you longe instead of him taking off and dragging you around…it’s timing. Google “One rein stops” and once you get back on him, practice, practice, practice, starting with the yielding of his head and neck in both directions at a standstill with a fast release of pressure when you get the proper response; then do it at a walk, then at a trot/jog, then at a canter/lope as he perfects the previous gait. Very doable, just takes practice. Do it till it’s automatic for both of you and you’re bored to tears and then do it some more. Do it every single time you get on him. You’ll never have to worry about him taking off–you’ll always be able to stop him.

2 Likes
#15

After ruling out/resolving physical issues, Warwick Schilller. Go to YouTube and watch the “what to do with your horse during the coronavirus” series. They are short videos with simple exercises. Will they solve your problems? No, but they will keep you safely on the ground for now and if you pay attention you might learn some helpful things about your horse. Subscribe to his online video collection. I bet you can find a lot in there that is helpful. And you are not going slowly enough. I know you thought you bought a family horse, but you didn’t. If you insist on trying to work with him, you need to slow way down. But also be realistic about what you can handle.

#16

If this horse is on any grain - stop. Get with a trainer who knows how to handle horses like this. You may have experience, but your confidence is shattered right now and won’t help. If you think he is that dangerous, call the vet and have him put down.

2 Likes
#17

There are too many nice horses out there to stay with one that doesn’t fit. Horses are like men, they might not be the one for you but might be perfect for someone else. What are you feeding him? I’d give him away and get a quiet, older ranch horse who needs retirement from hard work but would be a good family mount.

6 Likes
#18

I agree w/ xeroxchick. There are plenty of nice horses around that need homes, why put the time, energy, & money into one that is going to hurt you.

If he’s truly dangerous, euthanize him.

If he’s just unschooled, have a vet make sure he has no health issues, send him to a trainer & see if you can improve him, but I wouldn’t count on him ever being a “family” horse.

If you like a challenge, or have a death wish, make sure your life & disability insurance is paid up (& consider upping the coverage), send him to a trainer while you are recovering from the injuries sustained on your last ride & try again once you are healed.

He may be a horse that would be great in just the right situation, but in my experience even if he goes out for training (& that’s with a really good horseman - those aren’t always easy to find) they will tend to be unpredictable still in the future.

2 Likes
#19

Well, I have more questions for you.

How old is the horse?

Did you ride the horse before your purchased him?

Did the seller ride the horse in front of you?

Your options:

  1. Sell him. (Personally, I have no time for horses with pre-existing issues like this. There’s too many good ones out there. Of course, sell with full disclosure.)
  2. Send him to a trainer who is experienced in problem horses.
  3. Work on him yourself.
  4. Put him down. (Not a popular option, but if he truly is dangerous, he’s dangerous.)

I am glad you had the vet check him out. It’s always a good idea to know what issues may have been created due to pain.

But…why does your saddle weight matter with his withers? That doesn’t make any sense. If you saddle does not fit him, then it does not fit him. If it’s sitting down on his withers, it doesn’t fit him. It’s probably much too wide.

Going thicker on the pad isn’t always the answer. If your shoes didn’t fit, would you remedy it by putting on thicker socks? No.

The saddle needs to fit in the first place. Padding is (usually) just secondary.

Of course I wasn’t there but not so sure it was an “out of nowhere” explosive ride. You’ve only had him 3 weeks. He does not know what you want on the lunge line and actually fights you and takes off running. That sort of blatant disrespect doesn’t usually go away in 3 weeks.

I’m sorry that you got hurt but I think you clearly progressed too quickly. With his issues, he was not ready for that kind of ride. I agree that if you are going to try to tackle him yourself, first you need to get a saddle that fits. Then, you need to start him from ground zero. Completely restart. And even then, it may take a very, very long time for him to be that “family horse” you were looking for. It may be months… or longer. If you are willing to put in the time, great.

If not, then cut your losses and be rid of him now and find something more suitable.

3 Likes
#20

I didnt get him for him to be a horse id put my kids on, i have a 22 year old bombproof gal for that. I had been working him every day since he got here, ground work and riding. He had 5 small rides under saddle before he went off that day, so it was a surprise since he was fine being ridden before. Ive still been working him as much as possible, since he previous owners still have not contacted me back about getting him. Not that i wanna throw in the towel, i just feel like someone who knows him better has a better chance of working through his problems. But since alas i am stuck with him, i reached out to all the trainers i know and they dont want to touch him 😬 ive been working extensively on his ground work since after the accident he thought he could rip the lunge line out of my hands and be done for the day. Ive been looking for a saddle to fit him better, my western is too wide for him and i dont trust him enough to ride him in an my English that fits him yet. His feet have also been done last week to ensure he has no hoof pain. He responds beautifully to praise and being loved, but continues to try to give me shit with commands and tries to run away if i push him to long to comply. Like the most recent problem is getting him to take a bit (i tack him up to be lunged just to work on his impatience with being tacked) i pull his head down and place my hand on his nose, he constantly jerks his head away or lifts it. I always end up having to hold my fingers in his mouth and keep pulling his head down till he gives in 😬 ive been putting a basic snaffle in with cheek guards, so nothing crazy. I will not be selling or rehoming him, unless someone knows 100% what they’re getting into and can train him appropriately. But i dont feel like im there yet and will keep training him as long as i can.

If anyone has tips on getting a horse to open its mouth without risking your fingers, id love to hear them. Thanks!

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