Dani Waldman admits to never turning out horses

[luvmyhackney]

It used to be in ASB world horses typically didn’t get turnout from late Feb through end of Nov, or if they do it’s in small individual paddocks. Then from end of Nov-Feb most are kicked outside with shoes pulled in turnout. Some are out 24/7 and some are just out during the day depends on horse and trainer. Mine were out 24/7 in a group of show horses and other than a few bareback and trail rides virtually untouched except for vet/farrier work. They would come back inside in Feb with limited turnout and start long lining/driving. Show shoes first week of March and first show of the season 3 weeks later. Mine would get out of their stall 3-4 times a day which wasn’t super uncommon. Hand walk in AM, 20-45 min work, hand walk in PM, 20 min in the outdoor bull pen.

Babies get the stall space in the winter and are usually broke to ride and drive during that time.

My ASBs were sound and super happy horses well into their late 20’s. One of mine definitely preferred stall life, he wasn’t the fondest of turnout and preferred the hustle and bustle of barn activity.

[Equkelly]

I cannot stand the people who say “oh my horse loves his stall” and use it as an excuse to not provide for your one of your horses basic needs.

They don’t “love their stall” they “love” food, water, shelter, and friends. That’s why they’re excited to go in every night. It’s got nothing to do with the physical stall.

Someone like this who has all the resources to turn the horses out and just won’t, is what makes this especially gross. Yes they could get hurt in turnout (more likely to colic but whatever) but if that’s you’re reasoning, you’re just putting YOUR need for them to be your riding horse above their need to just be happy and healthy. She can GTFO with this “I love my horses” crap. No, you love riding your horses. If you loved your horses you would do what’s best for them and not you.

She deserves all the backlash and more.

[Rel6]

Horses get injured jumping and being lunged all the time. The only difference is we don’t do that for them - they do that for us. Turnout is at least something we can give them for their own wellbeing (and for mine too!! I certainly don’t want to get on my baby horse after she has sat in a stall for a few days).

I know two horses off the top of my head that came to barns with “no lunging” clauses in their lease contracts as a result of owners or trainers experiencing lunging accidents with horses. I have never seen that clause for turn out (although it wouldn’t surprise me). My point is that all the things people do to keep horses “sane” instead of turning them out - assuming access to turnout and just no inclination to use it - isn’t for the horse. It is because someone has decided that they are only willing to risk the horse getting hurt if the horse’s movement is in furtherance of the owner’s/trainer’s goal. Her use of the phrase “uncontrolled movement” is so exceedingly telling.

[Impractical_Horsewoman]

Yeah, I remember a few years ago a video being shared on Facebook by a saddleseat barn owner, showing how excited a horse seemed to be, after being turned out for the first time in ages, after having his show shoes pulled for the season. I didn’t know what that meant, so I had Google around (that show shoes on gaited horses are dangerous for turnout, because of the shoe weight and the risk of damaging the hoof).

I’m sure the big difference between Dani and other riders in her discipline of showjumping is she didn’t appreciate how abnormal it is for many of us not to see turnout as a basic necessity. Now she’s “schooled” in social media, she’ll be much more careful about what she says, not that any actual practices will change.

[ExpialidociousOTTB]

@Impractical_Horsewoman

I’m sure the big difference between Dani and other riders in her discipline of showjumping is she didn’t appreciate how abnormal it is for many of us not to see turnout as a basic necessity. Now she’s “schooled” in social media, she’ll be much more careful about what she says, not that any actual practices will change.

Sadly, I’m sure this is true. But hopefully drawing attention to this might help people recognize her for what she is - a horse user, not a horse person.

And hopefully some of the people asking her for opinion saw the overwhelming backlash and will think twice about listening to her advice for management practices.

[Impractical_Horsewoman]

Very true @ExpialidociousOTTB! It’s easy for me to forget that some young riders may have spent their entire lives at barns where no turnout or very little turnout is the norm.

[clanter]

since this has transition to the well being of the horse’s mind, we have one retired jumper who evidently hated to jump as in her retirement she specifically goes over to the jumps to knock them down then over to the fixed jump to paw at it before she goes to graze

[Texarkana]

@anon510129

Maybe not, but she does have 51.1k Instagram followers. Many of whom are just your average rider (me, but I stopped following her).

I think this is the crux of the problem.

I know when I was 17, 18, 19 years of age, I just KNEW I was going to be a successful GP rider one day with my freebie OTTB whom I kept in my backyard. I mean, we would go to local schooling jumper shows and win the 3’ class!!! With 3 rails down and a refusal because we were the only entry.

But my point is, I emulated everything the big names did. I wore what they wore (or what I could afford). I rode like they rode (or thought I did). And I cared for my horses like they cared for their horses.

Not turning out horses is unfortunately a common practice in the show world, regardless of your discipline. It’s a practice I don’t agree with, but I also understand the origins and the choice.

But the harm comes from big name riders normalizing it. Because there is now some 17 year old who doesn’t want to turn out her pony because her favorite GP rider on Instagram argues that it is a best practice condoned by medical practitioners.

[scrbear11]

I’m not sure why everyone is so up in arms over this. If you’re dumb enough to take her advice as a local-yocal-no-name, then it is what it is. You shouldn’t own a horse.

It’s really not that uncommon and quite “european” to not turn out

[Texarkana]

@scrbear11

I’m not sure why everyone is so up in arms over this. If you’re dumb enough to take her advice as a local-yocal-no-name, then it is what it is. You shouldn’t own a horse.

It’s really not that uncommon and quite “european” to not turn out

I agree it’s not uncommon practice. While I don’t agree with it, I also don’t find it to be a big deal.

But I disagree with your comments about being dumb enough to take her advice. I think those type of comments come off as elitist and dismissive of the fact that not everyone has equal access to high quality instruction.

Everyone has to start somewhere with horses. In 2021, most people aren’t coming from families with horse experience. Maybe you are lucky enough to have highly competent instructors in your area to get you on the right path, but there’s a good chance you’re starting off at some backyard barn with a bunch of yahoos.

And if you’re smart enough, you eventually realize you are riding with a bunch of yahoos who don’t know what they are doing. But that still doesn’t mean you necessarily have access to better options. So you turn to free advice from the pros. That doesn’t make you dumb; that’s just where you are in your learning curve.

[crackerjack]

@scrbear11

I’m not sure why everyone is so up in arms over this. If you’re dumb enough to take her advice as a local-yocal-no-name, then it is what it is. You shouldn’t own a horse.

It’s really not that uncommon and quite “european” to not turn out

Often in Europe it’s due to lack of land or during the muddy season to save the paddocks. But it’s more common there. However, if Carl and Charlotte can turn theirs out on a regular basis I don’t think anyone has the excuse of no turn out to prevent injuries. I believe Carl turned Escapado out 24/7 while he was competing because he was a nutter if he wasn’t.
So many injuries can happen in stalls because horses are… horses.

[NancyM]

I can never figure out why that is, when so many of them jump so well and are such outstanding horses. But I actually DO know why, it’s the promotion, marketing and social pressure that was invented by the “sport horse industry” to turn buyers away from what was plentiful and affordable (the OTTB), and instead to “sport specific” breeding programs… WBs. “Oh mummy, please buy me a WB so that I can win the class at the horse show, because all the TBs are lame and crazy and not nice and not talented”. Thus, the market fell out of the OTTBs, and the equine sport disciplines became even more the realm of the ultra rich, paying big money for horses, creating huge fees and commissions for coaches and trainers, and needing full time trainers to train the horses rather than doing it yourself, employing professional riders to ride them, so that they have the “best” chance of winning the class. And thus, the equine industry and the development of true horsemen has suffered. Horse owners have become “clients” instead of horsemen. Until the point where someone who puts flowers in their hair to gain attention to themselves and is ignorant of basic horse care can cause such a “splash”.

[foursocks]

Horse can obviously live long, healthy lives not being turned out. For centuries horses have been kept in less-than-ideal conditions as working animals. So, they CAN live like this, but probably shouldn’t, if at all possible. They are grazing, herd animals and despite being domesticated, those parts remain integral to their natures. That’s sort of the difference, right? Can versus should.

I will say though, that there are some that really do like less time out than in, for whatever reason. My older horse used to be very rigid about his outside time being balanced with stall time. After a few years of being retired he has fully embraced being outside as much as he wants (his retirement barn is set up to allow the horses access to stalls and pasture pretty much as they wish), although he still avails himself of the stall option frequently.

My younger horse, unfortunately, will throw tantrums and hurt himself if he is outside and: it is rainy, too cold, too hot, too buggy, or any other reason that he seemingly arbitrarily chooses. He has caused serious injury to himself because he wasn’t brought in RIGHT NOW when he decided it was time. He also hates other horses and will try to maim them if they even share a fenceline. He is the only horse in the barn who will happily give up a day of being out for being in his stall if the weather is really awful or whatever.

On the other hand, he does like going out for at least a few hours, and since I know turnout is good for him, he has to deal with it. It’s a pain, though, because he has to be carefully managed or he will hurt himself/take down fencelines/etc. I’ve never had such an unnatural horse in my life, but that’s him and I manage him carefully because I want him to have a good life, which includes not being injured from being a brat!

I feel bad for horses that don’t get turnout because their owners/trainers don’t want to manage the possibility of injury. That’s unfair to these animals who do so much for us. Managing turnout even for high-spirited, fit show horses is certainly doable, especially since the vast majority of horses aren’t like my special diva.

[sherian]

agree “can vs should” - some circumstances such as weather and location can certainly limit turnout options, but jumping 6’ fences than saying my horse can’t have even supervised turnout in a small paddock for a roll and a fart cause he may hurt himself is BS

[Midge]

@NancyM

I can never figure out why that is, when so many of them jump so well and are such outstanding horses. But I actually DO know why, it’s the promotion, marketing and social pressure that was invented by the “sport horse industry” to turn buyers away from what was plentiful and affordable (the OTTB), and instead to “sport specific” breeding programs… WBs. “Oh mummy, please buy me a WB so that I can win the class at the horse show, because all the TBs are lame and crazy and not nice and not talented”. Thus, the market fell out of the OTTBs, and the equine sport disciplines became even more the realm of the ultra rich, paying big money for horses, creating huge fees and commissions for coaches and trainers, and needing full time trainers to train the horses rather than doing it yourself, employing professional riders to ride them, so that they have the “best” chance of winning the class. And thus, the equine industry and the development of true horsemen has suffered. Horse owners have become “clients” instead of horsemen. Until the point where someone who puts flowers in their hair to gain attention to themselves and is ignorant of basic horse care can cause such a “splash”.

Actually, it’s about breeding for the purpose and when you can follow jumping lines back several generations, that’s what you buy. People used to do that deal of buying five TBs with good conformation, get them all started, and figure one of them was going to work out. Now, you can buy one purpose bred to jump, and you have a much better shot at getting one that will progress farther up the levels.

[Impractical_Horsewoman]

I don’t think there’s a danger that someone with horses at home will keep their shaggy pony inside because some name-brand showjumper doesn’t turn out her horses. I do think, though, that there is a danger that minimal turnout is being normalized for clients who aren’t terribly knowledgable about their horses even at lower level show barns. Even in the northeast, there’s the temptation to turn out horses for fewer hours of the day because it’s easier for the staff at a show barn. It’s easier to feed/water/change blankets. And sometimes clients (or staff) prefer not having to get the horse from the paddock in bad weather and mud. Or making sure a wet horse is brought in early from the rain for a lesson so he’ll be dry enough to ride. Keeping paddocks reasonably safe for horses likewise takes less work if the horses are only out for a few hours in perfect weather. So turning out less becomes normalized and when clients hear, “it’s too rainy/buggy/he’ll pull a shoe before the show, he’ll be fine staying in, many horses do fine without turnout at all,” the client isn’t going to protest.

I do realize that barns are under a great deal of pressure to stay in business, and even most of us humans don’t live under so-called ideal circumstances, so as a non-barn owner, I’m in no position to criticize, but, in the case of higher end barns that can certainly afford to offer high-quality turnout even in a small paddock, I’m less sympathetic.

I also don’t quite really buy the idea that horses “love” their stalls. Horses (and most animals) love routine. When the routine gets changed, they get upset, even if the change is for their benefit. If a horse is used to being stalled 24/7, turnout will feel weird.

[AffirmedHope]

This is the same woman that cried about her struggle to feed horses because of COVID but then posts countless photos of herself wearing designer clothes and shoes as well as her designer stocked closet

I know people in Wellington are pretty far removed from reality, but she really takes the cake with some of the crap she posts. She wears her feathers, fine whatever, but then does countless interviews where the focus is the feathers and cries bullying when all of the feedback isn’t about how wonderful and innovative she is. If you want to make risky fashion choices then you need to realize not everyone is going to like your style.

[mmeqcenter]

Turnout is a hill I’d be willing to die on, and I am firmly of the belief that when most of the ones that constantly hurt themselves in turnout, and they go out for like two hours a day, it’s because they’re going so mad being stuck in a stall that they run around like psychopaths for the teeny bit of turnout they get. So it’s a viscous cycle, they get hurt and get less turnout, less turnout makes them more nutter and more likely to hurt themselves, and round and round they go.

[anon510129]

THIS.

I, too, will die on that hill right beside you.

Turn your horse out that jumps the sticks for your vanity (and I am a competitive, A circuit jumper).

It’s called respecting the animal. They don’t give a da*g about shockwave and vibrating ice boots if you’re not letting them play a little bit.

[Tha_Ridge]

A lot of what I’m going to say has already been said, but firstly: My horse goes out. My trainer’s Grand Prix horse goes out. I’m not a fan of Dani.

But as others have already said, it is extremely common in Europe (the UK excepted) for horses to not go out. These horses are very fit horses and they aren’t trapped in their stalls 23 hours a day—most are ridden twice a day, spend time on the walker, get hand-grazed, and so on. These aren’t people that are unkind or unknowledgeable about excellent horse care either; it’s just the way life is there, and I’d argue that their management and care far exceeds that of the average Hunter/Jumper barn in many ways. You don’t really see European vets injecting joints in 6-year-olds.