I feel sorry for the youngsters normally growing up in a large field in a herd an then put into a stall - without pasture time anymore. What a culture shock.
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I truly don’t buy the idea that some horses hate turnout. Horses like wherever their food and friends are, and it’s as simple as that. If your horse is ready to jump the fence to come in whenever it gets turned out, it’s an issue with the turnout situation.
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This is such an interesting conversation, and I’m always intrigued by how different the “culture” of horse-keeping is from region to region.
Just on the point of horses who might not like turnout:
I’ve known several horses who only liked a couple of hours of turnout. This is on the east coast and particularly during the buggy parts of spring, summer, and fall (i.e., much of the year!). Even with shade provided outdoors, stalls tend to be cooler and less buggy, particularly when the obliging humans turn on the fans!
I’m sure it’s also about routine and every horse having its own idea about how a well-ordered world works. But that’s the point: that not all horses are the same or have the same needs.
I agree that turnout is necessary. Horses have to move around to be healthy, and it’s also good for their mental health. But the level of turnout needed may vary from horse to horse.
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One thing I see thrown around is people saying a soft tissue injury their show horse has is a “paddock injury”. I’d love to see horse-people get away from this mind-set – outside of a sudden catastrophic event like going through a fence or a kick, soft tissue paddock injuries are very rare.
By and large most soft-tissue injuries that happen to a horse are man made and were weeks or months in the making - either bad trimming/farriery, or riding a horse that is uncomfortable and ignoring it – and most horses tell us for a long time they’re uncomfortable before the soft tissue failure.
Things like increased spookiness/difficulty under saddle, girthiness, irritability during blanket shifts, toe dragging, losing flexibility to one side, not being able to hold a lead or losing lead changes, etc… and riders/trainers will push through by changing bits, saddles, and boots and never look to change their management and riding…
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Vets who tell this part of the truth are rare because it’s tricky to tell a rider that maybe … this is not what clients want to hear. Vets are not enemies of their money, so it is easier to call it a paddock accident.
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I agree with this for like, 99% of horses.
Though there’s always an oddball somewhere in the world, I can’t help but roll my eyes anytime someone says there horse “doesn’t like turnout.” 99% of the time someone says that, the horse has a need that is not being met while outside - no friends, no hay/grass, no shade, too many bugs, they’re anticipating a grain feeding, etc. Almost always there is something that can be changed about their turnout situation that will make them happier, and that does not at all mean they prefer being in a stall.
The horses on my farm all come down and stand at their gates every single time I go outside whether it’s feeding time or not, because they’re expecting the food-lady to bring them food. It doesn’t mean they’re clamoring to get inside to be in a stall.
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Agree that soft tissue injuries are often months in the making or were on their way when the catastrophic thing happened, whether under saddle, on a lunge line, or in turnout.
But a (Southern California) vet once told me that people putting horses in turnout kept her in business. The turnouts available in that area at that time were mostly rings, so probably within the dangerous size range. My mom’s horse shattered P2 in a hind foot in a ring turnout. I doubt there was anything there before, but you never know. She was encouraging him to move and said that haunted her for years. It was a long time before I was willing to put a horse in that size turnout and I will not chase or encourage them to move in any way.
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My point is that a lot of this is VERY subjective. Things I don’t think are fair have worked for people for years. And vice versa. There are certain basic levels of horsemanship we all can agree on (food, shelter, water, safe handling, etc.) but beyond that it is VERY subjective.
It’s going to thunderstorm tonight. My home horse is going out with a run in shed. My neighbor’s horse is out without one. My boarded horse will be kept in. Who is right? Who is the better horseman? Every day we make decisions that other people wouldn’t make. It seems like a whole lot of ire directed at this Dani person is because she rubbed some people the wrong way (I only vaguely know who she is and don’t care. For those that so despise her, why let her occupy so much real estate in your head?). Because there are a LOT of top horseman (some about to be named to our international showjumping team, I suspect) who also never turn out (at least not in the traditional sense). That is how some people manage horses and do so very successfully. I don’t think it’s such a radical way to do things. Not how I would do it. But, again… I don’t walk in their shoes. And tonight… my home horses will get wet 
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Hi @NancyM,
Which part of my post are you referring to? That is not your experience in northern vs Southern California, New York, Florida, Illinios, Canada, Europe, Latin & South America…?
That is not my experience.
(Not trying to be argumentative, just if you don’t quote who/what you are referring to it is hard for people to know).
EDIT: I just now after I pressed post realized you replied to @Midge not me… oops!
Also for insurance reasons & required veterinarian documentation in a very expensive animal with a career ending “loss of use” injury.
I hear all of you that the horse is a social grazing mammal that evolved to live in herds.
That said… I’m pretty sure we have done a lot of inbreeding into today’s modern sporthorse. I’m still in the “turnout is important” camp, but I’m not willing to die on the hill that turnout 24/7 is a better life than one of Dani Waldman’s FEI horses. Having worked in FEI operations abroad… I just think that context is important. I also will never understand why strangers trust other strangers on the internet for advice on their unique individual situation, or why a young impressionable budding horse owner/rider would take advice from a “celebrity” on Instagram/the internet vs vet/trainer/horse mentor/knowledgeable older experienced friend/etc. But I hear the argument that many young people have horses without supervision… that’s a tough one. You still need somebody to give you advice “in the flesh.”
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I agree 110%Absolutely.
Though I will say my horse will tell us when her time is up in turn out. She has about an acre to herself and my two old horses both died this past year, so now she is “alone” (the neighbors have about 10 horses that she can see, and even can share a fence with one).
After several hours she will tell us it is time to come in. Sometimes something spooks her and she will run to the gate and want to go in her stall (with attached run in).
This doesn’t mean she “hates her pasture” like some people might be arguing (either here or in real life).
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I think potential injury during turnout is an excuse, and damn poor one at that. And yes, while I might just own “trail horses” now, I have owned 5 figure show horses, and yes, they were out as much as possible too.
My horses have access to turnout 24/7, and that is specifically my doing. I have boarded in situations where they did not get turned out on a regular basis, and learned very quickly this was not to the horses or my benefit. I have worked had most of my adult life to be able to afford my own farmette or farm, and to be able to make my horses as comfortable as possible.
I firmly believe that the more a horse is turned out in a safe situation, the less risk of injury. The more they are out, the less tendency to tear around and the less houncing (now there is a great Pennsylvania Dutch word) around there is with turnout buddies.
I also think horses are healthier both mentally and physically the more they are out. Mentally, I find them less reactive. Less spookiness, less silliness under saddle. Much quicker to settle down and work.
Less issues with feet and colic, more opportunities for them to be fit and stay fit. I am now lucky enough that my pastures have hills, and the horses are up and down them daily, multiple times. After time off, it makes it easier and quicker for them to get back into working condition.
In my mind, human ego is a huge reason for not allowing turnout for horses. I do understand that in certain situations it is difficult or extremely limited, but I have decided for me and any horses I own that does not work.
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On the flip side of the pasture injury logic… my 5yo gelding is recovering from injuries sustained from two separate casting incidents. In a large box stall, with therapeutic mattress mat flooring.
Our plan with the vet for both helping him heal from the casting injuries and prevent further incidents? Kick him outside. 24/7 pasture turnout, loss of stall privileges until further notice.
Modern day sporthorses are still glorified farm animals with suicidal tendencies. Turn them out. They’re likely to find another way to injure themselves regardless.
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This topic is a great example of something that drives me absolutely bonkers on social media. Young or inexperienced horse people asking for advice in comments of posts.
Makes me want to pull my hair out. No pro can suggest if you need a different bit/saddle/horse/feed program etc. from a single line question on an Instagram post. And quite frankly, no pro should be replying to these questions. I think it’s extremely irresponsible for Dani (or any other rider) to be suggesting anything based on knowing nothing more than a few words in a comment.
I realize the same thing happens on this board with people asking for advice but at least in this situation, there’s opportunity for back and forth dialogue. And it’s much easier to ignore the advice of strangers on the internet than an Olympic level rider.
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Would your answer change (even a little bit) if you were talking about mid-to-high six- and low seven-figure horses? Because that’s what we’re discussing here. I don’t say that to be snarky, but just to emphasize that most of the folks in the no/little turnout camp are doing horses as a business, not a hobby.
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I’m in southern california and I am in a constant struggle with my trainer and head groom to have my horses in overnight turnout. Our paddocks aren’t huge, just dirt. But my horses feel so much better when they’re out. I can tell immediately when I get on if they were kept in.
I’m newer to the barn and don’t want to be “that client” but at the end of the day, these horses are my responsibility. This is basically the one thing I will make a fuss over. I have made it clear that I will not be angry at anyone in the barn if my horses are injured in turn out and damnit, I really mean it.
What amazed me especially when I did one season of WEF was how few of the really top names turn out their horses. We demand so much athleticism of these horses, the ability to land from a 1.60m oxer and turn immediately, yet we can’t trust them in a paddock? Believe me, one of my horses would be quite valuable if I ever wanted to sell him, so the financial argument isn’t lost on me, but holy hell, that’s what insurance is for.
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I have a mid-six figure horse and it doesn’t change my mind. I get that it’s a business which is why there’s insurance… for businesses and horses.
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As someone with a small property, I can understand limited turnout. However, I take pride in keeping my horses consistently worked, year round, and maximizing the amount of turn out that can be used. My horses are happy, except for perhaps the limited access to fresh grass. They all have drylot paddocks. Never had a horse start cribbing, or develop any vices. They get pasture during the summer, just rationed to keep them from becoming obese.
I once worked for a saddlebred farm, with no turnout. Horses were worked 15 minutes and put away, if they were worked at all. They were nutz! I don’t blame the horses, but a drylot allows for movement, space to roll, nap, and socialize.
I don’t usually have injuries with turnout, except for one particular mare who likes to kick the fence down. She only respects electric.
The saddlebred farm lost one horse to an impaction colic. I had to hold the horse while the vet euthanized. The owner of that particular horse hadn’t seen the horse in months. Why buy a horse just to lock it in a stall for months at a time?
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Totally agree. And how you all manage your horses is also going to depend on the individual horses and your knowledge of them.
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