Daughter bucked off in lessons-confidence shaken and joy almost gone, how to rebuild?

[Scribbler]

I expect that the lesson pony described by OP is “lazy” because there is some back or hock soreness, and pushing a horse like that into a canter by force is going to provoke a bucking response. We tend to think that ponies are naughty when they act out, while the high dollar show horse must have something physically wrong that needs diagnosis and treatment. If this general scenario occurred with a TB or WB we would be saying get a vet workup.

We make a similar difference between children and adults. If a child is anxious or complains of discomfort or imbalance, they are being sullen and insubordinate and need to suck it up and do what they are told. If an adult reports the same things, they need to see a doctor, a chiro, and a sports psychologist to solve everything.

I hated all sports instruction as a child and have enjoyed it generally as an adult. When I started doing dance based fitness, aerobics, zoomba etc starting in my early 20s I loved the “go at your own speed, listen to your body, don’t get hurt” advice. Absolutely did not exist in high school PE.

[Equkelly]

@Lunabear1988

The trainer just goes to hundred right away… There is no asking for the canter. It’s straight to using the whip pretty aggressively. Lol. And apparently, this time the pony hadn’t been turned out for a few days because of weather. So it was the perfect storm.

Yea and see if it’s me, lunging my mare just for excercise it would be one thing for me to wave a whip at her if I’m trying to sharpen up our transitions. But if I put a kid on my mare, I’m sure as hell not doing that. I’d prefer a sloppy and slower transition than an abrupt one.

@Lunabear1988

I do agree the horses don’t need to be super responsive. But out of all the lesson ponies/horses, this one is far lazier. I still think there are better ways than going crazy with the whip on the lunge.

Yea I think it’s a balancing act but for a kid learning to ride, I’d so much rather a pony trot half way around the arena with a kid struggling to get the canter than have the pony canter whenever the kid gets nervous and clamps with their leg/ tips forward. But i feel for the kids because that can be frustrating and not fun!

It’s my pet peeve when people complain about how their lesson horses “aren’t trained” because they’re not responsive to the aids like horses in training usually are. Unfortunately you just can’t really have it both ways where a lesson horse will forgive all of that but then be super responsive.

[Bogie]

When my daughter was young she loved getting on a pony and just messing around. Taking lessons made her anxious and sapped the fun from it. The instructor told me to take her home, let her keep messing around (for your daughter that might be trail riding) and come back when she begged for lessons.

[candyappy]

@Lunabear1988

She has her pony kick (as hard as she can) and use a crop on the pony. She still only gets going occasionally. I can see that it is truly physically tiring for my daughter to try and get this pony to trot on her own. It’s not that she’s lazy- it is frustrating! I have been there.

Both ponies bucked about 3 to 5 bucks. Pretty decent sized bucks too. So not like a small “woohoo” moment.
I’m glad she hasn’t been hurt

A decent pony might make all thee difference. These 2 ponies sound bored and sour.

[Janet]

@SummerRose

Granted, I don’t think I’ve ever known a horse who can show successfully at a high level and give lessons at the same time because they do need to be a little less responsive for beginners, but it usually doesn’t take much to get a good, well-trained lesson horse back into show mode.

Depends on the horse, and depends on what you mean by “high level”.

The horse I rode as a junior, Rocket, was doing 3’6" Jr Hunter, 3’6" unrecognized jumpers (recognized jumpers started at 4’) and C-2 Pony Club rallies at the same time I was giving beginner lessons on him. He figured out pretty quickly how responsive he needed to be to each rider. In one case, I was giving a beginner lesson on him the day before the rally.

My sister had a pretty hot OTTB, Magic, that she was competing at Prelim. But if you put a rank beginner on him, he would take care of him.

I never used Music for regular lessons, but I sometimes let my husband and brother in law (both beginners) ride her. She just adjusted her sensitivity to the rider. At the time, I was showing her second level, and schooling all the third level movement, so VERY responsive to my aids, But when I put a beginner on her, it was all they could do to get her to walk forward.

[SuzieQNutter]

@clanter

@SuzieQNutter

They are looking for a smaller mount but they are not as suitable as most horses.

when we were looking kids mounts we settled on two breeds known for basically having good behavior with kids Morgans and Connemara… ended up getting Morgans

I am in Australia, I have never even seen or heard of a Morgan except in books, forums and I watched the movie.

OP keeps calling the pony lazy and someone above says because of pain.

My take is incorrect training. Because the lunge whip is being used for transitions, the instructor is not training correctly so the pony won’t go unless nagged.

Correct the training and the pony will not be lazy and become a safer school pony.

It is the instructor who needs to learn.

[clanter]

@SuzieQNutter

I am in Australia, I have never even seen or heard of a Morgan except in books, forums and I watched the movie.

Morgans are real…they are all horses even if they measure to be a pony as the all Morgans are considered to be a Horse

This one is a “pony” at 14.1+H

Really an easy to train breed. One that clicks with kids, challenging the child yet not over doing it, Very versatile breed, biggest issue is amount of tack they can use,

[SuzieQNutter]

Beautiful.

Ken has turned out to be one of out best school horses. He is part clydesdale and part quarter horse. He was so green when he came and I trained him up to 10 meter canter circles and shoulder-in. The clydesdale in him just makes him so happy.

He is so useful as he can take a little kid or a full grown adult.

[clanter]

Back to OP… I really do not remember when our kids cantered, they were always out goofing off with their horses so I assumed they convinced their horse they were ready to canter at some time or the other…a western horse’s lope was an easy intro

but their show classes for beginning at the shows we attended were walk/trot

We focused mainly on their equation and good hands …

[TheDBYC]

@Scribbler

hated all sports instruction as a child and have enjoyed it generally as an adult. When I started doing dance based fitness, aerobics, zoomba etc starting in my early 20s I loved the “go at your own speed, listen to your body, don’t get hurt” advice. Absolutely did not exist in high school PE.

Lordy, am I with you on that! I was a klutz at sports all through school. I still don’t enjoy team sports. I’m in fantastic shape now at 45yo & continually improving & achieving benchmarks I never dreamed of hitting in my 20’s (Recently managed full splits for the first time, thank you very much.) So many of the “jocks” I went to HS & college with completely destroyed their bodies by age 25 with their “Pain is weakness leaving the body” Nike T-shirt philosophy. And as they found out the hard way, none possessed the magic alchemy of talent sufficient to even get paid to play.

[J-Lu]

You’ve gotten a lot of good advice.

I’ll add that it seems like the instructor and ponies are not right for your daughter. She needs to ride a pony or small horse that is “with the program” and will walk, trot, canter on aids and minimal cues from anyone longing.

Also, I think I missed her age, but the response of adults to a kid getting bucked off is really important. The trainer out of my barn has his 6 year old on a pony and his 13 year old on a small QH showing dressage. They’ve both been bucked off and he laughs and says “now you’re a real horseperson!” and helps them understand why they were bucked off. He never blames the horse/pony, never blames the rider, always calls is “miscommunication”. That said, he never chases ponies/horses with a longe whip. It sounds like the instructor and pony are both feeling pressure and not responding well.

His daughter loves dressage so she’s funneled into that program with a great trainer. His son loves to ride up and down banks and rocks and dirt piles, so he just does that on his amazing pony. No pressure on either of them. He makes sure they both have fun even though their personalities are 100% different.

Can you find a different situation? I know of a GP-level Young Rider program dressage rider who is in her early 20s now and shows regularly in Wellington. I knew her at 12+ when her ride was a stiff grade pony and they just rode around and had fun. I remember when her and another now accomplished rider the also rode a kind grade pony and they’d ride backwards bareback on their ponies. They had a lot of fun! It sounds like your daughter can use some fun and less structured lessons. Structure can come in the future when she’s ready for structure. Fun can also come in the way of steering over poles, around cones, picking up an item somewhere and depositing it elsewhere, and a whole bunch of other fun things.

[trubandloki]

@J-Lu

Also, I think I missed her age

@Lunabear1988

She’s 9 years old

J-Lu, you make a good point about how the adults react when a kid falls off does make a huge difference.

[Lunabear1988]

I think both me and the instructor handled our reactions good at the moment anyways. I have video of both and I can hear myself just very very calmly telling her you’re okay honey! And then we both just told her how good she did (she really did, you can see her just trying to keep her little heels down and sit up)

She wanted to call every family member. Someone else in my family also rides and I honestly think she was proud of herself. Especially after the first time that she actually came off but landed on her feet. She was also proud that she stayed on the second time but again and knocked the wind out of her and hurt her back even though she did not fall off it… The bucks for that hard it’s still hurt her. So we definitely didn’t cuddle her or make it a huge deal is in the way of drama.

I think she just needed a super fun easy going lesson the first few times after and instead it seems like the instructor was a little frustrated that she was getting fearful and was almost even more hard on my daughter? And I don’t think that’s what my daughter needs right now.

She really likes going over poles, she loves working on her position, trail rides. She likes to be challenged as it’s something that she feels she can actually do. Which plays into the confidence in thing.

I think we will check out a few programs and see what feels right to her.

[Lunabear1988]

I just asked her about checking out one of the programs that I’ve connected with and she was very enthusiastic about it!! I think there is hope here!

[Arlomine]

Nope. Longing beginners to help them develop a good seat is a time-honored tradition for good reason. Yes, you must have a reliable horse. But to think that a beginner is LESS safe for first canter on the longe line with a trained horse is incorrect.

Longing with no stirrups, no reins, doing gymnastic exercises like around the world, and circles, etc, are standard in high quality programs. In my program, beginners don’t do an independent Canter off the longe line until they can feel comfortable with no stirrups and no reins on the longe line. I will not sacrifice my wonderful pony, and I think it gives the student more confidence when they do canter on their ownn.

It sounds like this kid really does need a different program. Certainly the longe lesson was a fail. I agree that a change of venue is in order, and possibly dialing down to trail riding and games. Just like a young horse, if you run into a roadblock, back up and don’t overface them further…then slowly build up.

[lenapesadie]

Am I the only one that finds it appalling that two mounts have bucked with your daughter that is trying to learn to canter? I’m offended on your daughter’s behalf. I’ve seen more than my fair share of beginner lessons. The learn to canter horse is the one that moves up to the canter when the instructor kisses from the middle of the arena.

I’d be looking for programs with nice quarter honies that roll up into a quiet lope from a verbal cue. If that meant daughter rode in a western saddle for a bit, I’d be perfectly ok with that.

If you’re near Pensacola I can recommend an excellent program for kids. Fun games, excellent horses, trail riding opportunities, good people. Nobody getting bucked off trying to get their first canter transition.

[trubandloki]

@lenapesadie

Am I the only one that finds it appalling that two mounts have bucked with your daughter that is trying to learn to canter?

They are horses/ponies. Even the most bombproof of them can do stupid things.

Do I think that they bucked is a good thing? Nope. But most certainly an appalled.

There was a pony at the lesson barn I used to board at. She was so old. But she knew her job and did her job of teaching the itty bitty humans. When the mini-humans were put in a line and waiting, when she got to the point where she was first in line she knew her job was to canter that mini-human around the ring, back to the end of the line.
It was the slowest canter ever (heck, she was old and small and in no hurry to go anywhere). The problem is, that some mini-humans would scream and act like they were dying because off she would go, cantering to the end of the line (so not quite once around the outside) and their pulling and tugging was totally ignored. She had a job, and she was doing it. (No kids were made to canter, these were kids who in theory wanted to canter.)

My point is, even when they are doing nothing really wrong, lesson horses can scare some kids.

[lenapesadie]

I certainly understand horses aren’t machines and that kids can squeal in terror over nothing.

Two bucking episodes on two different mounts with a kid trying to learn to canter is a bit different though. I find it appalling.

[Sue_B]

When my folks finally got me riding lessons it was at a place that based their instruction on Pony Club principles. They had zero ponies, only horses, all wonderful schoolies with differing attributes. My introduction to the place was through summer camp (drop off in the morning, pick up in the evening.) They lunged all beginners on a super safe ex-vaulting horses. We all learned the basics of vaulting, and through that learned how to “fall off” at, eventually, all 3 gaits. We also learned how to ride all 3 gaits, how to stand on the horse’s back at all 3 gaits, everything. I credit them with my only being significantly injured a couple times in almost 5 decades of riding. Of course, my first real injury occurred when I was cantering (in a lesson) one of their school horses. It stumbled, hit its nose in the dirt, I tumbled off, bounced off the rail and fell under him and he stepped on me. I hurt my neck and leg, but not that badly and they retired the horse to leadline only, no more cantering or jumping. It was strictly a children’s riding center, designed for the beginner set, emphasizing horsemanship and kid fun/safety. Loved that place.

[Bogie]

If you haven’t seen this Facebook page, these two girls and their ponies are living the dream. I’m constantly impressed by how much fun they are having. Not sure it’s even possible in most places here in the States.

https://www.facebook.com/search/top?q=kizzy%20%26%20etties%20pony%20adventures