I’m not arguing with you – it IS a powerful life skill. But as a mom of a 13 year old myself, I’ll posit that this doesn’t happen overnight. A lot of kids are low-key scared of their trainers (mine included). It takes time, relationship building, and lots of parental encouragement for them to get to the place where they can bravely ask adults for explanation. IMO, if a trainer sees a kid repeatedly making the same mistake, the trainer should break it down without being asked.
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I do not disagree with this.
But like I tell Mr. Trub very frequently - I failed mind reading and I am guessing most of the trainers did too. They can explain the same thing six different ways and still not have hit on something that makes Susie understand and if they do not realize that Susie’s problem is not that she can’t do a half halt right but that she does not even understand what a half halt is… then it falls on Susie to help herself.
For the record, I was that kid who would not speak out in class and I found my teachers to be intimidating. But at some point you just have to get brave and ask. I think the time for that is during the lesson but if you are like me and timid, go up to the teacher/trainer after lesson and ask quietly.
The case that started this email was at a show. So clearly different than a lesson.
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I don’t think the outgate of an IEA show affords the trainer the time to address what more leg means. Mom asked for advice here and I’m giving her some solid life skill advice. I get that it takes time - child made it to age 13 and doesn’t feel compelled to ask for clarification. This is a problem. Mom needs to do some coaching there to encourage the child (actually, she’s a teen) to speak up! This goes for riding lessons, school, and any sports. I also wonder why the teen isn’t asking - does she have a self esteem problem? Has nobody taught her that she can ask? Does she need to be taught empowerment? Does she have a helicopter mom who always jumps in for her to solve her problems for her? So many questions on this one! I agree it will take time, but this isn’t a skill for the coach to teach the teen. This is parenting.
Teen also probably needs some more focused 1:1 instruction to help her along. I would also be seeking some additional lessons for this child where there is more time to focus on just this teen and not the group.
Coaching IEA is hard and it’s easy to say “the trainer should do this” or “the trainer should do that.” I think there is responsiblity on all sides. Also, some trainers aren’t great at beginner lessons but excel with more advanced riders. I would find a trainer who can assist with the skills this teen needs as this time. If we are talking “more leg” being an issue, it would seem this ride is still at the basic level and perhaps could use some more basic instruction. No harm in that! We wouldn’t put a kid learning basic arithmatic in the class where the teacher expects you to understand derivatives.
I think this teen should stick with it, take some extra lessons, and learning to own her misunderstandings of instruction and use this as an opportunity to develop her communication skills. At 13 she has a long life ahead of her - better to figure this out now!
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I think there is a point in every child / young person life where they need to be taught how to constructively gain knowledge. Given permission, how to ask questions that bring them knowledge.
It took me a very long time to figure out how I best learn . Back when I was a kid, you simply fold your hands and listen, you didn’t question. Speaking up and asking questions got you labeled as a smart ass or a know it all, or simply annoying.
Time to learn the life lesson on how to make progress in anything you do. This situation calls for a parent to step in and evaluate what is really happening and seeking ways to support child getting knowledge.
Even the best teacher in the world can hit a wall with some students. Sometimes hearing someone else say the same thing but in a different fashion brings a breakthrough
I suspect we have all have had, and continue to have, learning situations like this
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Not sure if this helps or not, but I’ve coached IEA for years and I always make sure to go over two things with my students at the beginning of each season -
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Do not get caught up in the ribbons, especially your first year doing IEA. It’s a hard thing for a kid to figure out being confident and effective on a strange horse in the show environment. Sometimes they will draw one that’s easy for them that first season and some shows they will struggle. Try to keep the focus on the learning, the fun of having teammates, good sportsmanship, and horsemanship. The kids that get this and develop the right long term attitude typically have parents who are reinforcing this message over and over.
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I also tell my students to check in with me during breaks or after the show for better feedback or if they need clarification on anything I said. There is often too much going on during the show with multiple kids in the same class or back to back students in classes to give a lot of depth right after the ride to each rider. That doesn’t mean the coach doesn’t want to talk in further detail, at least for me, it just means I can’t do it at that moment.
No idea if this coach is the right coach for your kid long-term, but I think IEA in general has enough benefits for riders in the long run that it’s worth giving her a season to see how it plays out.
As a parent, perhaps you have the chance to help your daughter focus on the positives of IEA rather than any negatives? You could host a team get together or team building event or help organize parents to bring snacks to the shows, if the coach is ok with it? Many of my students don’t do school sports, so getting this little feel of being on a “TEAM” with other kids can be really rewarding. It’s very different from showing individually at a regular show and it often helps them build some great friendships through their middle school and high school years.
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I think the posters here who expect the young teenager to proactively discuss things with the coach are expecting way too much of a kid. How many times, even on this forum, people have gotten frustrated with adult learners who can’t do the same?
Also, teens don’t have the mentality of “fire the riding instructor.” They don’t have autonomy in other areas of their lives to “fire” their teachers, or hold teachers accountable.
Others have asked about the riding performance of other teens on the team, but I wouldn’t see that as an indication of instructor quality. There are quite a few barns in my area that have had bad instructors, but done quite well at shows, just by virtue of having some talented teens who ride, teens who likely would flourish anywhere, with minimal instruction. (Then the barns suddenly and mysteriously start to do not-so-well when that clique all graduates).
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So I am not totally disagreeing with this, however, this is a teen who has started to show. Sports can be just as much about mental preparation when performing or in a game. So I have a kid the same age and she shows. Sometimes on ours, sometimes catch riding. I DO expect her to be able to ask questions and communicate with adults/coaches/trainers. Yes- there are bumps but this is a social skill a life lesson, when supervised by the parent.
It honestly isn’t much different than asking the pre algebra teacher for clarification. I can’t tell you how many times I have said “did you tell your teacher you are struggling and what you are struggling with?”
Yes- if a kid is showing, a teen, if they expressed frustration to the parent the parent can guide them on how to ask for clarification.
Also- guiding our kids in to having a voice also set them up for success in other areas of life.
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Yup! Maybe it is an ADHD-related thing in my case: I’mnever be able to explain what isn’t making sense to me in a way that makes sense to other people who don’t also reside in my brain. Even as a 40-something I often find it easier to nod, smile, & consult Professor Google later on. With age & experience of my own as a teacher I’ve come to realize that angry reaction to questions often = someone who doesn’t have a firm grasp on the material they’re teaching.
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I doubt anyone disagrees with this. (Clearly taking into account how the question is asked or the timing of the question being asked. Someone snapping at you for interrupting them in the middle of something is not appropriate but it is also wrong to interrupt them, etc.
The OP here does not describe an angry reaction to a question though.
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My entire childhood showing experience!! Only to be told by a chorus of adults, “there’s always next year!” when we both knew damn well that no matter how much I improved by the next year, the same kids who beat me would have improved just as much! I really did love (still love) my childhood horse, but she had no redeeming qualities in the show ring. 
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Coaching IEA shows is very different from coaching at regular horse shows. When I ran a team, I had students in nearly every class back to back all day long, in addition to keeping an eye on the horses I provided. That made it almost impossible to give my riders any specific why’s about their rides at the time. At the show is also not the time to do the teaching (explaining exactly how to do the thing) in the first place, even if there were time to do so. Additionally, instructing riders while they’re actually in the ring being judged is technically a no-no at IEA. It sounds like your coach is giving your daughter the small bit of instruction/feedback that she’s able to give at the time. At a normal show, I give detailed feedback on rounds with my students and try to have a dialogue about what they felt vs what I saw and what we can do better next time. At IEA shows, there’s just no time for that.
Does your daughter take lessons? Does this IEA team/coach offer practices outside of the shows? The time for really learning and improving skills like these is at a lesson/practice. If the team does not have practices and your daughter does not already take at least weekly lessons, I encourage you to have your daughter take some lessons with this coach. Allow them to build a rapport and understanding of each other in a less stressful and more education-focused environment than just on show day!
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Exactly!
All there is time to do in a show environment such as this is short feedback/correction.
And I agree with @Scribbler, that if the coach is still yelling more leg, then by golly pony-club kick that saintly schoolie! A busy show environment like IEA isn’t the time to address why you feel you’re doing something and your coach isn’t seeing it, or your body isn’t doing what you think it is, or you’re conflicted about cantering on an unknown pony, etc. If you’re in the class, in a team sport (which IEA arguably is) there is a certain amount of getting on with it. We can debrief at home but not at “half time”.
As a parent it’s understandable to side with your child if they complain that the coach is mean/yells, etc - but unless there is actual bullying/berating going on, it is also up to the child to be coachable and show that they are really trying on show day (if they want to be on the team - that of course doesn’t have to be their only riding experience but sometimes we also don’t get to choose who our boss is or main prof in your major, and it’s also helpful to learn to deal with people in position of authority who might not be “so helpful”…).
I would see this differently if she was taking one-on-one lessons and her instructor just yelled “more leg” without explaining why it wasn’t working. But I see the IEA coach more like a soccer or hockey coach reacting to what’s happening “in the moment”. So in that regard I wouldn’t judge the coach yelling more leg (and asking why that didn’t happen) as “unhealthy” - as per OP thread title.
(It might also be hard to get detailed feedback if team practices are large. Of course we could expect the coach to create an atmosphere where the child can feel comfortable asking questions/advice - but it is hard at that age to do in a large group or at a show. I would still encourage the child to talk to the coach as in “I know I didn’t do well on Sunday. How can I do better next time?”).
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I agree with @Pennywell_Bay entirely. My parents, while wonderful, were nowhere near as engaged as the OP - in fact, the summer I turned 13 (OP’s daughter’s age) I spent the entire summer on the road with my trainer. The assertiveness I learned during this time has served me well in all areas of life. Adults who don’t proactively discuss things with their coach were likely kids who weren’t expected to do so or had well-intentioned parents have those discussions for them. Kids can rise to the occasion if you let them.
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After the IEA horses have had upwards of 10 rides , it’s feeding time or way past and the trainers are counting their income maybe the parents as a group need to question all parts of this program. It’s a money maker for mediocre trainers and is not a great place for a child or inexperienced parent to start a show career.
There is a distinct lack of concern about the horses’ welfare at these shows so I rather imagine the children are not respected either.
Just my opinion after attending two of these marathons.
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@oreo_mom, you should probably do a little fact checking before you spout off your animosity towards the IEA program. It serves as a great steppingstone for young riders, especially for those who can’t afford their own horse. The horses at these shows are the backbone of the program, and as a coach, I know that most (I won’t say all, as there are always outliers) of us are very careful with the number and type of classes that the horses do. They are limited by the rule book to do no more than 8 classes at a show, and most coaches I know keep it between 4 and 6. The steward at the show makes sure that they don’t do more than their course load allows. In fact, I was at a show (maybe the same one that @CBoylen was referring to. Definitely at the same facility) where through a combination of circumstances, by the time we got to the end of the day and were trying to find alternates, the steward kept saying, “no, that one has done its maximum today.”
Additionally, many of the teams that I know have coaches who are top notch not only for this level of showing, but have students that compete into the upper levels at regular shows as well.
As to the original topic here, the poster who mentioned that coaches have riders in every class and don’t have time to “teach” in between classes, is absolutely correct. Most times, we will have multiple riders in each class, and making sure that each rider gets accurate training and attention is HARD. After most rounds, I’ll give a short debriefing, here’s what I liked, here’s what the big problem was, but I can’t give the tools at that time to fix it. What I typically do, especially after first shows, is address it in lessons the next week. I’ll ask, “ok what did you take away from the show? What do you think we need to work on? What surprised you the most?”
To the O/P, if something like this didn’t happen in your daughter’s next lesson, maybe suggest to her that she ask the instructor some of those questions when she can. I’m repeating what a lot of posters have said already, but don’t judge your IEA experience just on one show. Different shows at different farms will also run differently from each other, and may give you different experiences. They may give your coach different experiences. If she’s at a show where it’s run very smoothly and everything is going to plan, she may be able to make more time for each rider. If it’s a stressful show, with lots of changes or problems, she may just be trying to survive the day, and not be able to give each rider as much attention as she would like to.
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I’m happy your experience was better than mine. On a hot day in South Florida 13 rides is too many. They didn’t feel it was fair to the riders not to have a ride.
I’m happy also that somewhere this program works. Thank you!
Being a good coach in an IEA or college meet setting is difficult. Most of the time the coaches are simply teaching the students defense as the horses aren’t always great.
With that being said, I think IEA is a great lesson for junior riders because it teaches them to ride what they have. I would definitely consider having your daughter commit to at least the show season to see if things get better.
In regards to the coach, (and from my personal experience as a coach), if the coach is saying to use more leg or put your heels down or sit back or whatever and they keep repeating themselves, the rider isn’t doing it.
Video of your daughter riding played back to her after the show may be very helpful to her. Maybe she felt that the horse was going faster than it was so she didn’t add as much leg as the coach was telling her to.
Maybe she thinks she’s sitting back but she’s obviously not since the coach keeps telling her to.
The art of showing (a lot of it anyways) is not taking in too much feeling (because what you may think feels awful actually doesn’t look too bad) and riding your horse as practiced or as your coach says.
With that being said, if your daughter feels she can’t trust this coach or doesn’t feel the coach is correct, this will probably never be a great coach/student relationship and might be better off moving on.
But if it were me or my kid, I would be sticking it out and then trying to follow my coach’s instructions exactly (within reason, nothing unsafe) and seeing if my show results reflected positively.
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Just had our first IEA of the season and I completely disagree with oreo_mom.
The horses were kept in the shade, with water and a groom with them the entire time. The majority of the classes are flat and cross rails. There are fewer kids in the higher levels. Jump rounds last a minute. Flat classes last about 5-7 minutes. I realize it’s multiple riders but these are not beginner riders and tend to have some skill.
My daughter had 2 great horses, came out of each round with a big smile on her face. The coach gave her feedback before going in.
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I have known many riders who freeze in the saddle and seem unable to follow instructions, but then later insist they did. The most noteworthy was a teenager on a horse that “bolted” with her. The mare did take off with some speed, but the rider immediately folded over the horse’s neck, knotted her fingers in the mare’s mane and began to shriek. Our instructor repeatedly asked her to sit up, to stop screaming, to pull on the reins, anything at all. The poor mare dashed around the field about five times with her shrieking passenger’s heels dug into her flank and the reins flapping loose. The mare finally ran back to take shelter among the other lesson horses and slid to a stop, lawn darting the student into the ground at our feet. The girl swore the horse was malicious, but when the trainer asked her why she hadn’t done anything to stop the horse, she insisted that she had been pulling with all her might - that was impossible because she’d dropped the reins and the only thing her hands were doing was holding on. I’m sure in her mind she was doing everything she could to stop the horse but she was so terrified, she essentially lost the ability to control her body. I’ve seen it in riders who weren’t even in danger: a woman who would insist she’d shortened her reins but who could only do it at a halt, a guy who would swear he’d asked his horse to whoa on trails, but would literally sit hunched over the horn until his horse bounced off the rump of the horse in front of him, which got him kicked multiple times and made him insist the riders around him were the issue for being “unable to control their horses.”
All that to say, it is totally possible that your daughter thought she was working her little heart out when the reality is that she was just sitting in the saddle hoping for the best. Her instructor’s question might have been a genuine request for feedback and your daughter couldn’t give feedback because she didn’t understand where the problem lay. I do agree that a teenager is old enough to take instructions and ask for clarification but it is hard and scary. Some teens really do need their hobbies to never come with any criticism or feedback - just fluffiness. Unfortunately, your horse’s failure to respond is pretty obvious feedback that your trainer is going to notice and expect you to fix. Controlling your horse effectively is a/ the point and b/ important from a safety standpoint.
You can’t know what happened unless you were there, but she may need a different hobby, a different trainer (which means no IEA - plenty of riders never do IEA), or different expectations.
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