My daughter is 13 and just completed her first IEA show. She placed last in her entire group. Her horse was very pokey and her coach was yelling to her to use more leg. As she left the arena, her coach asked why she was ignoring her instructions. My daughter said she was using more leg and was confused that her coach wasn’t seeing it. She said this has been a typical conflict between her and the coach-in that coach will tell her to do something and she really believes she is. But then coach wonders why she’s not and gets frustrated with her and just moves on. There’s no effort in creating a deeper understanding or another chance to try. There seems to often be a communication breakdown between them. She’s had a few other instructors that she feels very confident and successful with, so I don’t really understand why it’s happening with this individual in this way. However, she’s her only option if she wants to do IEA. She feels defeated all the time. Not sure whether to just have her tough it out with a challenging instructor or move on. There are a lot of successful riders under her, so I don’t get it. I don’t want to be overly protective but I also don’t want this experience to completely ruin her love of riding. Trying to find a balance.
Can you afford additional private lessons, perhaps with a non-IEA coach, to help her develop some skills and strength? Might be a nice way of allowing her to get a bit more practice and understanding.
That being said, took about 3 years of telling me to sit up before my body finally allowed me to stretch and actually sit up. Still working on it to this day. That is why we all take lessons despite decades of riding - what you think you’re doing and what your body is actually doing often significantly differ. 
Never considered that! It’s probably frustrating to feel like your body is responding when it’s not. But it would be nice if the coach could help her understand that part, if that is the case. I appreciate the advice. It would be nice to get another coach on board who is a bit more patient.
If she’s only done one horse show, it seems like it might be a bit early to think about throwing in the towel. Especially an IEA show, where the literal luck of the draw plays a huge part in your experience on that day. If she had drawn a different horse, she might have had a great day.
Could she make a plan to stick with it for one semester? Or for X number of shows? Maybe with additional lessons from a different coach during that time? And then decide whether or not she wants to continue at that point?
One show seems like a pretty short timeframe to make a decision, unless it seems like there is any sort of a safety issue involved.
Yes I totally get your point. But the issue was more about the coach than having a bad experience at her first show. Having a bad experience at her first show and getting a bit better support and feedback from the coach, would’ve been a whole different experience. I think that was my point.
Telling a student to do something like add more leg and then seeing absolutely no change despite the rider’s honest efforts to follow instructions EXTREMELY common. It’s basically the entirety of teaching beginner to intermediate lessons. The whole point is to teach the kid HOW to do it and troubleshoot as to why it’s not working.
So, basically, I’m not a fan of this coach from this little snippet. But I think finding lessons elsewhere is a good suggestions. A lot of kids love the team aspect of IEA and are able to really enjoy it even if they don’t love the format/coach/etc.
Definitely look into taking lessons from an instructor that she works better with as well as the required IEA stuff - plenty of people ride with other trainers for regular lessons and just ride at the IEA barn for those hours, I know I did. Getting along with your instructor in lessons is essential to progression, having a “challenging” one is great so long as they aren’t giving up and moving on - which is the most concerning part of your original post. IEA is a valuable option for showing on a budget, especially if you think she might want to ride on a team in college so I wouldn’t give up just yet!
Have you talked to trainer? Or more effective- have you had your daughter write down what’s bothering her and turn that into a bullet point/list of discussion points or questions and sat down with trainer and mediated a conversation between then? It shouldn’t be a negative experience for either of them, but rather a “hey I want to improve but I think I’m on a different page and want some clarification”. It doesn’t need to be a big production. It just might take a few minutes so you don’t want to be holding up a lesson to do it.
Finally, did you video the show? Sitting down with trainer and walking through her rounds/flat and having trainer explain what she’s doing and could do better in the moment can be helpful. I used to do this between rounds but that isn’t something you can usually do in an IEA situation with how the programs run. This would be a come early/stay late type of thing. Also if you get her into lessons with another instructor you can show those videos (of the show as well as any lessons) and have new trainer work through those problems easier than trying to explain it to them after the fact.
There are people who shout out instructions without providing tools and techniques and call themselves “coach”. There are people who provide tools and techniques and call out instructions who actually “coach”.
Talk to your daughter’s coach and make a judgement.
So I didn’t ride IEA, but I rode Intercollegiate. Our coaches were clueless and the trainers that they gave us were third string instructors at show barns. I had been riding and competing on the circuit for some time…so I just pretty much ignored them most of the time and smiled and nodded… and kept doing what my actual trainer had taught me.
My advice? Get her a fun and positive trainer for a lesson once a week that is well known and respected in that area. Make it abundantly clear that you heard what coach said… and you are going to have her ride with local pro to get her “stronger”. Many coaches will back down when they know a bigger name is now also assisting. IEA and Intercollegiate can be frustrating bc not every horse is game for the job. I’ve had horses spook at judge’s stand and back-pedal out the in-gate… I’ve had horses that got annoyed by it’s prior riding and would land and put its head between its knees after every line. I had a horse that hung so hard on my right side that he snapped a very rotted rein. Thankfully it was a flat class and I just whoaed him and hopped off bc I wasn’t tempting fate if they missed it and called for canter!
I get that you want to be Mama Bear here… but get the kid to a capable trainer that can work with her to get her a positive experience and really tell you if they think your kid’s leg is effective.
One thing I suggest is that you video her rounds, so that she can watch afterwards and see what the coach is seeing. Often in riding, we feel like we are making a major correction, when in fact it is so minor as to be imperceptible. This may help her understand how much more active she needs to be, in order to be effective. Video is a great learning tool, regardless of the circumstances. The format of the IEA program may not allow for a lot of one-on-one coaching and communication. It doesn’t mean that your daughter can’t participate and learn.
So I think a lot can go in to this that has you questioning.
The IEAs shows are a lot of confusion, sometimes. So the coach may not have been able to address the “how” in the moment. It is important to be addressed maybe at the next lesson or practice. I’d hope the coach would remember to address this but if she has 9 other kids, and it was not a catastrophe with your daughter- she may forget (not that she should). My daughter is the same age as yours and I make sure she tries to have conversations and ask if she doesn’t understand.
Have you witnessed this being a repeat conflict with your daughter? Asking because I ride, and I see my kid’s lesson and sometimes she will have a Very. Different. Take on things that I who witnessed it myself.
Feeling defeated all the time- I’d ask her why specifically. Is it because she feels like she isn’t at the same level as the other IEA members? Does she need a different style of teaching ? I think you specifically saying she came in last- is that why she feels defeated?
If she wants to do IEA, I think you have to talk to her and explain the different styles of instructors, help guide her on how to maybe communicate. I know the instructor needs to be the adult and trainer but it sometimes help (and is a good non horse life lesson) to help enable your child to ask specific questions.
I hope it works out. My daughter used to hate riding with my one trainer. She didn’t really like his style compared to some others we have ridden with. We had lots of conversations about the “whys” etc. After a year- she “gets” it, has grown in her skills a lot. I also have her ride with some other trainers (we keep ours at home and everyone is fine), so our IEA was not our primary instructor.
I wish you luck. Riding a lot of different horses is tremendous fo r them at this age.
What @Pennywell_Bay said.
Though it would be optimal, I would think that the coach would likely not have the time to address something like this at the show. Please have your daughter talk with the coach about it at their next lesson. There is nothing wrong with saying - You told me to add leg and I felt like I did add leg but nothing happened, how can we fix this so I am doing this correctly since I feel like I did do it correctly but it did not work.
I also like the idea of finding your daughter a trainer that your daughter likes and doing lessons there, along with the IEA stuff.
So in IEA you draw lots for a horse to ride that day in competition? So the horse is unfamiliar to both rider and coach?
There are a lot of beginner safe horses out there that simply won’t move out under a beginner or even intermediate rider. They learn this as a matter of self preservation. An advanced rider or trainer can often get a good forward ride out of them but the beginner never will.
It’s very very likely that a 13 year old doesn’t have the skills and strength to motivate the kind of horse that is safe for her riding level, in order to perform well in a competition. And if the trainer doesn’t know the horse, their suggestions will be more generic than if they do.
When you get feedback on anything in life, often the geberal comment is correct but the details wrong.
The trainer here is I am sure completely correct that the rider placed last because the horse was sucked back and not going forward. The trainer then gives the generic advice use more leg.
Sometimes that’s enough. However, with many horses it’s not. My mare for instance needs a good 20 minute trails warmup before we go in the ring or she is very very balky. Other horses suck back when they are in mild pain from hocks feet saddle. Others are just tired or body sore. Also many horses can feel if the rider is not comfortable going faster.
If this was a regular horse then you would need to do some problem solving in regards to tack, health, warmup, feed, workload, and perhaps judiciously introduce trainer rides, a crop, spurs.
Since it’s a one off ride, none of that is possible. It’s just the luck of the draw. And honestly better outcome than if kid drew a bolter or a bucker.
I also think kids are encouraged to show far too early these days, before they can really ride, on the model of other organized sports.
However one of the lessons of competition is that only one person gets to win and someone always has to come last. You have to learn to suck it up and deal with the luck of the day. That’s called good sportsmanship.
Who goes to their first competition in anything especially horses expecting to win or place? The first several shows are going to be learning the ropes and staying safe. Kid accomplished that. That’s a good thing and significant.
Better coaching on better horses would also not go amiss.
Absolutely true.
Even more so in the IEA/IHSA format, where the luck of the draw plays such a huge role.
For those who are not familiar with it, the exhibitors draw the names of the horses they will show that day. There is usually a schooling session for the horses with other riders that the coaches and competitors can watch. And often there will be a printed sheet with brief descriptions of the horses and their quirks and tendencies.
As time goes by, the coaches and riders may gain experience with the different horses by drawing them at multiple horse shows. But the rider can definitely have a great day or a terrible day based strictly on the horse names they pull out of the hat that morning.
In the long run, the best riders will usually have the most success, since they will be able to adjust to the wide variety of horses involved. But there are certainly ups and downs involved along the way. Learning to deal with both the good days and bad days gracefully is part of developing character and sportsmanship.
Plus it provides the kids with the chance to participate in a team sport with horses, which can be a rare thing for many riders.
Every class has a last place person, and I’ve often been it–it’s just more humiliating on the flat. It’s ridiculous a coach would get angry at a kid riding a strange horse that was probably selected to be in an IEA show for preteens because he’s so pokey. The last thing you want is a horse that will take off with a tiny bit of leg pressure, especially since many kids (not necessarily your daughter, just many new riders) won’t have great balance at this stage.
If it’s a persistent problem (again, drawing from my personal experience), tension is often the culprit. The rider may be kicking, but is scared and stiff and blocking the horse. This is normal! Again, that’s why you want a forgiving and pokey horse, not a horse that will get angry if the rider is kicking but choking back on the reins and get naughty.
@Impractical_Horsewoman I love the first line of your post. I totally screamed “me too”.
Being last is just part of competing. It happens.
A coach yelling is not necessarily “getting mad” in any real sense.
Childrens coaches tend to have very um, carrying, voices in order to cut across distance, and the hum of horses and hormones. Unfortunately teachers and coaches of children often assume that when a child is not effectively doing the task, they are refusing or daydreaming, and the coach gets louder not clearer.
Riding is a fast dangerous sport and coaches expect students to hear the instruction and act on it immediately as sometimes it is indeed life or death or at least a bad fall. They expect crisp response especially in a show environment.
The student needs to learn how to make it obvious they are obeying instryction. I know how tentative and wifty beginner riders can be.
In this situation described above if the horse isn’t going with a squeeze and coach shouts more leg, then by golly you start visibly kicking that pony until he moves.
It would be pointless on my mare who would slam on the brakes if you treated her like that, but if you are on a quiet unfamiliar lesson horse and your coach is shouting more leg!! Then you need to get the job done and accelerate the aids until the horse responds or has a meltdown.
The larger thing the coach is trying to get across is the need to Get the Job Done, to be coachable, and not just melt into “I can’t get Fluffy to trot.”
Its a level of mental toughness. You get the job done, you dont whine that you tried and it didn’t work. That passive attitude is dangerous when it comes to working at speed, but it’s a typical attitude of tween girls who haven’t been pushed much in sports yet.
Of course as your riding improves and you start riding green horses you must develop more tact and subtlety. But for a beginner rider on a pokey lesson horse, learning how to get the job done and how to follow instryction and make it obvious that you are is an important first step.
But the first thing you mentioned about the show was she was last. Someone is last in every single class. Sometimes, it is going to be your child. And it is going to happen again, possibly at the very next show, because that happens too. Would you post have been the same if she was second, with the very same ride and interaction with the coach? It’s good to have coaches that aren’t as good at hand holding. It will stretch her riding mentally, too. It sounds like your daughter may be a more passive rider. She needs to show the coach results. If the coach says more leg, and nothing changes, that’s not enough more leg.
I think it is common on this forum to assume that parents are complaining that their child is not winning. Maybe sometimes that’s true, but I don’t think that is typically the case. So the OP said that the child was last, ok, that’s what she typed first, big deal. It honestly appears that she wants the child to have a good experience, which is what I would want for my own children. For what it’s worth, I hated IEA and IHSA, not sure if the latter exists any longer, and it was not due to lack of success. It is not for everybody, some people cannot perform well on horses they don’t know well, they don’t like to work with a coach in a team context, etc. That said, I hope the child in question gives it another go. Sometimes IEA coaches are coaching for extra money and their heart might not be in it, there is also the fact that we’re in a pandemic which has not brought out the best in everyone (not me, that is for sure).
There are a lot of bad coaches in equestrian, people who have never had any formal instruction on how to teach humans or how to interact with them. (Sometimes this is true even of extremely BN trainers, who have never really had to do a good job teaching people because their reputation as a rider was enough to pay the bills.) This reads to me like the instructor in question is one such.
It’s fair to ask “why didn’t you do what I asked” I suppose but any true teacher needs to be able to hear back that the student thought that they were, and then work with the student to resolve.
IE:
- does the student understand the instruction well enough to follow it
- can the instructor actually determine if the student is following the instruction
I agree that a show is not a good time to get instruction really but a quality coach should feel that it’s a priority to work out these questions and not simply assume (as some do) that the student, who has spent money and time and effort to appear in a lesson or a horse show just “isn’t trying” or “doesn’t care.”
IME, most of the time, the student does believe they are following the instruction and the instructor cannot detect the difference. And truly, sometimes the difference is not perceptible! 
So for example, if the instruction is to lift your hands, the student may do so and feel it but it’s not enough to see. A classic way to handle this is to ask the student to exaggerate the action - “lift your hands a foot!” - so that the failure to communicate can be isolated.
Ironically, I’ve even seen instructors who will say it’s never the horse’s fault the rider doesn’t communicate clearly fail to consider that the same can be true for an instructor-student relationship. It is on the instructor to establish clear communication. It is a cop-out to assume that the rider is uninterested in the lesson if things are not going well.
As I’ve gotten old and crusty, my patience for bad coaching in any sport has become extremely low. A bad coach makes any sport un-fun at best, dangerous at worst. I would rather change disciplines or change sports than work with a bad coach. And I feel this way x10 for coaches working with kids.
