Dead tail?

[ejm]

Could you have your own vet of choice examine her?

We had a TB filly that flipped over and broke her tail as a yearling. She was really sore and couldn’t move the tail at all, and one vet told us she was basically done. We called a great vet who does chiro and acupuncture; she examined the filly and did an acupuncture treatment, then gave us a special light and showed us the acupuncture points; we held the light on those spots several times a day and the filly began to regain tail function after a couple of weeks. Her tail was never 100% normal but she was able to train and win a few races.

[NancyM]

The colic episodes do not necessarily have to be related to the tail problem. They may not be. The colic MAY be coming from a different source… maybe something in the feed not agreeing with her system, not enough exercise (impaction) or ? As I said before, taking her on may not have a Walt Disney ending. And yes, you may well be signing yourself up for heartbreak. But if she “speaks” to you, and you have the desire to try for her, then it’s YOUR call what happens to her. Do you have some ideas about what you might like to try in her care and management that she is not currently getting?

[WildLittleWren]

@NancyM

The colic episodes do not necessarily have to be related to the tail problem. They may not be. The colic MAY be coming from a different source… maybe something in the feed not agreeing with her system, not enough exercise (impaction) or ? As I said before, taking her on may not have a Walt Disney ending. And yes, you may well be signing yourself up for heartbreak. But if she “speaks” to you, and you have the desire to try for her, then it’s YOUR call what happens to her. Do you have some ideas about what you might like to try in her care and management that she is not currently getting?

I am a big advocate of chiropractic care, massage therapy, and acupuncture. My hope would be that that would at least resolve the more life limiting issues she is currently experiencing. She is not getting any care other than the manual evacuations and her owner doesn’t believe in “alternative therapies”. I have just seen the wonders they can do, my own horse included!

[MsM]

How big are your pockets? This could get expensive pretty quickly. Can you afford the basic care for this horse plus diagnostics plus treatment and/or euthanasia and disposal? Do you want to do that rather than investing in a healthy horse? Can you deal with the heartache if things go badly?
From the sounds of it, this poor horse is a longshot to be healthy again. It sounds like the owners are at least keeping her comfortable and will likely euth if no improvement or other home, so you may not need to “save” her.

[Foxtrot_s]

Sorry to read all this - why can people not be up front with you from the beginning? Owner must know more about what has happened and what has been done for the poor girl. Makes me not trust them.

[4horses]

I used to work at a horse retirement home. They had a mare i would take care of. I was told the mare had a botched embryo transfer. I don’t know if she was the recipient or the donor. The mare had similar symptoms to what you describe but without the tail injury. She spilled manure all over her hind end. I believe there was internal damage as she could not control her bowels and as you were cleaning her, you could tell there was damage as she had some muscle wasting behind. That mare has long since passed away and i never spoke to the vet to determine exactly what was wrong.

Hearsay doesn’t really help you. I would want a vet to give her a physical and decide from there.

[2tempe]

OP - Part of me wonders if owner doesn’t have great records - not everyone keeps stuff…I would ask her permission to discuss the horse with her vet and go from there. Direct to the Horse’s mouth, so to speak. Overall, it doesn’t sound like a good situation, though…

[WildLittleWren]

Owner had to go out of town this past weekend so I am hoping to speak with her next weekend and be able to update everybody and hopefully get some more information so I can make a decision.

[demidq]

I agree with 2tempe. Ask to speak to the treating vet rather than looking at owner’s vet records. Owner may choose not to fully disclose, and even if she is entirely honest, it would be helpful to ask questions of the vet to understand all the implications. Certainly the diet you mention on the first page fits with recurrent impaction.
You can say to owner that you know how busy she is and how hard it is for her to get time to talk to you!

[WildLittleWren]

@demidq

I agree with 2tempe. Ask to speak to the treating vet rather than looking at owner’s vet records. Owner may choose not to fully disclose, and even if she is entirely honest, it would be helpful to ask questions of the vet to understand all the implications. Certainly the diet you mention on the first page fits with recurrent impaction.
You can say to owner that you know how busy she is and how hard it is for her to get time to talk to you!

I texted her after work today asking if she would give the attending vet that is treating her permission to speak with me. I encouraged her by saying if all went well I would be getting her off her feed bill, and would like to make an informed decision. So we will see! I do also hope she is going to be in town this weekend so I can talk to her as well!

[PonyDoc1]

Many of her clinical signs sound like cauda equina syndrome. It can have many factors and the underlying cause often isn’t found. It affects multiple nerves in the most caudal sections of the spine and can result in lack of muscle tone to the tail and difficulties urinating and defecating.

”‹”‹”‹”‹”‹”‹https://thehorse.com/152385/cauda-equina-syndrome-in-horses/

[Marla_100]

@WildLittleWren

Ok so I just fed for the evening. No scars under or around her tail, no white hairs anywhere. However she is obviously sore above the tailbone on top of her hindquarters where the tail ties in and looks slightly out of place. Not super reactive but seems to be sensitive there.

The soreness you mention make me think it was a traumatic injury at some point. I’d have a very, very good lameness
vet or someone like an orthopedic for horses. These type injuries can take time to heal especially if something were
fractured in there. Swelling inside and pain can make defecation and urinating difficult and/or painful until things heal.

I’d be tempted to take her home and allow for the inflammation and pain from injury to heal. Again, this takes time.
Example: fractured pelvis CAN take up to a year to heal. The fact that she is active and happily eating would give me hope for good healing in time.

[Bluey]

@WildLittleWren

Now that is a fun spiky hairdo in that last picture.

[NancyM]

Yes, that looks like what a broken pelvis looks like. This is a difficult spot to xray. It may be possible to xray, but the confirmation of a break is not worth the cost, IMO. Either it’s broken, or it’s not. Likely that it is. Either it will heal acceptably, or it won’t. Xray of it won’t help the situation, or give a lot of prognosis of how it will be in a year. It will just cost you money.

What treatment in terms of pain management is this horse currently getting?

[Marla_100]

When one of my horses broke his pelvis, the lameness vet simply palpated his back and pelvic area. He could tell by the

scrunching of bones, I believe. But it was just the wing that had broken off so not a difficult fracture to heal

Sometimes they can rectally palpate and determine fractures also.

You need a good lameness vet to diagnose this and give you more information. I wonder if the attending vet ever got

to the bottom of this problem?.

[WildLittleWren]

@NancyM

Yes, that looks like what a broken pelvis looks like. This is a difficult spot to xray. It may be possible to xray, but the confirmation of a break is not worth the cost, IMO. Either it’s broken, or it’s not. Likely that it is. Either it will heal acceptably, or it won’t. Xray of it won’t help the situation, or give a lot of prognosis of how it will be in a year. It will just cost you money.

What treatment in terms of pain management is this horse currently getting?

Currently no pain management. I spoke with owner on the phone this morning and she said it looked like this when she began buggy training and she actually got better when she was doing buggy work. It wasn’t until they put 3 rides on her that the tail went dead and she had the urination and defecating issues. So apparently, this was a prior injury that supposedly healed and then she began exhibiting these new symptoms when started under saddle. But, that’s a different story than I have gotten previously. I think I am not going to get truthful answers unless I have my own vet out to evaluate her at this point.

[S1969]

@WildLittleWren

I think I am not going to get truthful answers unless I have my own vet out to evaluate her at this point.

Agreed.

Any chance that will happen soon? Are they willing to let you bring out your vet to determine whether you are interested in the mare?

[demidq]

The paralysed tail, urine dribbling and trouble with defecation are more suggestive of a neurologic problem. That would also cause muscle wasting, not necessarily symmetrically. Does she appear to be in pain? A fractured pelvis would be sore and cause lameness.
Re-read your previous posts and you say she appears sound and happy, running around in the field so probably not in pain, and that also suggests that her pelvis is OK.
If owner is avoiding talking to you or giving you access to vet records that unfortunately suggests she is not being upfront with you regarding the extent of the problem. By all means have your vet check mare, but with no history and no info about initial presentation and treatment so far it may be difficult to get an accurate diagnosis. How much are you willing to spend on investigations?

[MsM]

Be careful that you dont end up paying for a lot of diagnostics for someone else’s horse. If you found an easily treatable problem, the owner might decide to keep her after all.

[S1969]

@MsM

Be careful that you dont end up paying for a lot of diagnostics for someone else’s horse. If you found an easily treatable problem, the owner might decide to keep her after all.

Yes. This thread is a couple weeks old already. If the owner was really looking for someone to take her - it seems like they would be working a lot harder to make it happen for the OP.

At this point I’d be willing to pay for my own vet to do a basic exam and advise me on what he/she finds and make a decision. But that’s all.

If this were my horse and I had someone potentially interested I would not be making them wait until I’m free on a weekend to talk about the horse. I think the owner is playing games here, hoping the problem goes away and they keep the mare.