Dealing with an aggressive dog attack, best way?

[floppyammy]

@Amberley I think your post is incredibly well stated and brings up some very salient points. I especially think that this point you make should be more widely considered:

@Amberley

The problem with pit bulls is that they were bred to fight and keep fighting until they die or their target dies. and unlike other breeds that natural tendency typically doesn’t become apparent until maturity so you can raise one from a puppy and have it turn into another dog after age 2. And the biggest problem? people act like that breeding was hundreds of years ago - there are 50,000 people involved in dog fighting in the USA today. Almost no-one is breeding pitbulls or pit bull crosses for the pet market. Where do you think all those dogs in shelters and dumped on county roads come from? At most they are a few generations removed from active fighting dogs.

@Amberley

I know numerous people who got one in their 20s and while the dog never mauled anyone they almost all became dog aggressive as they matured and many became human aggressive, anxious, destructive and generally required the entire household to be organized around their needs.

^^^This exact scenario played out with a couple at my barn. They were experienced, conscientious dog and horse owners. They had a mature great dane and a pitbull puppy. The puppy was well socialized and seemed stable and of good temperament. At some point after the age of 2 years, it began to attack the great dane. They used extensive resources trying to resolve the issue. At some point it was determined that it was irreconcilable. As a last ditch effort, the professionals involved thought the young dog would do best in an “only dog home.” It was re-homed. I heard later there was another bite - I don’t know if it was dog or human. The young dog was euthanized.

[Nous]

The Uk law is that you can’t let a dog be out of control in a public space.
Info below copied from this page: https://www.gov.uk/control-dog-public

Overview

It’s against the law to let a dog be dangerously out of control anywhere, such as:

• in a public place
• in a private place, for example a neighbour’s house or garden
• in the owner’s home

The law applies to all dogs.

You can report a dog that’s out of control.

Some types of dogs are banned.

Out of control

Your dog is considered dangerously out of control if it:

• injures someone
• makes someone worried that it might injure them

A court could also decide that your dog is dangerously out of control if either of the following apply:

• it attacks someone’s animal
• the owner of an animal thinks they could be injured if they tried to stop your dog attacking their animal

Penalties

You can get an unlimited fine or be sent to prison for up to 6 months (or both) if your dog is dangerously out of control. You may not be allowed to own a dog in the future and your dog may be destroyed.

If you let your dog injure someone you can be sent to prison for up to 5 years or fined (or both). If you deliberately use your dog to injure someone you could be charged with ‘malicious wounding’.

If you allow your dog to kill someone you can be sent to prison for up to 14 years or get an unlimited fine (or both).

If you allow your dog to injure an assistance dog (for example a guide dog) you can be sent to prison for up to 3 years or fined (or both).

[Impractical_Horsewoman]

I agree with everything you’ve said. I support rescue 1,000% but some rescue organizations are more “pit bull advocacy” organizations than are really devoted to helping dogs in need who just have bad/incompetent/sick/down-on-their-luck owners.

Of course breed exceptions exist, and I do know some great dogs with, like, a tiny sliver of pit bull in their breeding who don’t show any of these tendencies. But the idea that nurture is all and genetics mean nothing flies in the face of commonsense about dogs. I wouldn’t have gotten a long-haired chihuahua if I wanted to herd sheep, retrieve game, or run endurance races with me. Of course as well, any dog can become untrained and can show aggression under certain circumstances, but the “she just snapped” stories I’ve heard about pit bulls far outnumber the “I have a tactfully managed aggressive dog who got out” stories.

I do think the marketing of pit bulls as great first pets, versus “experienced owner” pets has been a disservice to dogs as well as potential owners.

I will say, I do have a friend who has owned pits. She did everything right, has had dog trainers for both, carefully managed both dogs so as to not unduly stress them, kept them away from other dogs, boarded the dogs solo when her grandkids come over. The dogs adored her and her husband. I consider her a responsible owner and the dogs had great lives and yet…that is not how I would want to live with a dog, unable to do dog stuff with other dogs. I don’t support bans, but I do support education and awareness so people who own the breed do so with their eyes open. Unfortunately, it seems that the marketing attracts either people who want a scary-ass dog or who think the dog is sweet and misunderstood.

[sophie]

Thank you for this. That is a really extensive law!
And…Pit Bull terriers are banned in the UK.

[TheJenners]

Okay but again, unless the dog had a history of it, there has to be that nugget of foreknowledge. All animals can be unpredictable. Within the law lies that magical phrase of “intent,” and sometimes “negligence” or “recklessness.” If your normally docile whateveradoodle that you’ve owned for 13 years that has never done anything wrong sudden flips out and starts chasing geese, and you are actively trying to grab it, you aren’t going to get prosecuted. Maybe fined for nuisance but not prosecuted with a crime.

[endlessclimb]

I have two notable encounters with loose dogs.

The first was so long ago I don’t remember the nitty gritty details, it was waaayyy back when I and my Old Man were much younger with many fewer miles under our belts. Two dogs, loose, chased him. I nearly got bucked off as he’s trying to kick at them, he’s running, I’m scared, the people I was riding with screaming at the dog owner who kept saying it was my fault for “running” from the dogs. Old Man nearly got one of them with a kick (they were biting at his legs!!) and she’s yelling that my horse is dangerous. This honestly scarred me forever on being around loose dogs I don’t know.

The second was with my Late mare, who was a small-creature-killer. Would go out of her way to kill a small animal, and came close on a few barn cats. We’re riding on trails solo, come across two women with two loose dogs. The pitbull looking one approaches, barking, hackles up - I’m yelling “MAM GET THE DOG” and the lady is running behind him screaming “PIZZA!!! PIZZA!!” with a bag of pizza in her hand. I stayed facing the dog, woman manages to get ahold of him. Ok, cool. Fast forward about 45 minutes, and I’m riding along the edge of a parking lot that ties two trail heads together. Out from between the cars comes this same pitbull dog, and now he’s not bluffing. He grabs ahold of Late Mare’s tail and is hanging on, I’ve pulled her into a tight circle - and I’m yelling again at the woman “GET YOUR DOG GET YOUR DOG” and here she comes again with a bag of pizza yelling “PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA”. My mare is BEGGING to slaughter this dog and I manage to keep her under control that she doesn’t hurt him - I don’t know what gods I pleased to be able to manage that, honestly, she was not the type to take direction. Lady wrenches the dog off my mare, and at this point I’m PISSED THE EFF OFF. I am SCREAMING at her what an idiot she is, how after the first incident she should have kept him leashed, how close she was to losing her dog to a kick to the head, etc. etc. Her answer to all of it was “Well, he’s a RESCUE”.

I abhor the general public’s loose dogs. When a dog is behaved around horses, it’s fun to have a tiny buddy join for a hack, and good exercise for the dog. But the general public’s dog? HECK no.

[endlessclimb]

I personally know two people who have had to euthanize “well bred” pitbulls after sexual maturity due to aggression. One of them was that “Gotti” line that was ever-so-popular.

Pitbull breeders do not have temperament at the forefront, most times - they breed for color, and for muscle/stance. Plus, how many generations is it going to take to get the terrier tendencies out? A million, if it’s even possible. You have a psycho JRT, with 70+# of muscle added, with morons for owners. NO. THANK. YOU.

[Vyce]

Given the man’s behavior and attitude, I’d bake a carrot cake and throw a party f that happened.

[Angela_Freda]

@endlessclimb

I hate that these dogs have gotten all kinds of cutesy names, too. Pittie. Pibble. American Bully. yadda yadda

Ugh, yes!!
I have a “friend” who had one, she can’t walk it on a leash, its not trained, she won’t bother to get up early to hit the dog park with it before anyone else is there to let it get exercise. It was reactive to her cat, I was sure the cat was going to get eaten. Its on a tie out to go potty and then back in the house.
What does she do?
Gets a second one.
Same MO.
And all the cutesy, intended to make the dog seem harmless names… Blargh!

I’ve hinted that a good steward to these dogs, who wishes to be an ambassador to their good nature needs to be more responsible for their proper management, which includes exercise and training.
But nope kisses and love will make it a safe, respectable ambassador to the breed/type.

It drives me batty!

[endlessclimb]

Also, add “pocket bully” and “micro bully”. Barf.

[Angela_Freda]

Or offered to hold the second officers horse so they could do something, perhaps.

[Angela_Freda]

@fivestrideline

my ineloquent post here is just trying to say that it’s not a breed issue here. It’s owners, and the lack of enforceable laws to prevent/punish the tragedies and seriously terrifying events like the one in the video. FWIW, I do not own a bully breed.

But the people who are this ill equipped seem to be most attracted to the breeds that need more knowledgeable handlers, it seems to me.

[Angela_Freda]

@endlessclimb

Her answer to all of it was “Well, he’s a RESCUE”.

[Heinz_57]

@endlessclimb

and the lady is running behind him screaming “PIZZA!!! PIZZA!!” with a bag of pizza in her hand.

Terrible story with an idiot owner, but I’m cracking up at the thought of someone who walks their dog with a bag of pizza for treats. What an odd thing.

[endlessclimb]

Agreed. I remember it distinctly. It was a ripped up piece of pepperoni pizza, in a sandwich bag. Bizarre.

[equinelibrium]

Welp, I watched this video to see what this guy was all about, and now Youtube is recommending a ton of “Dog Daddy” videos I’m not a dog trainer by any means, but even I could tell this “training” (if you can even call it that) is terrible.

@endlessclimb I know you said it was different people, but you should have told the person yelling at you to control your horse “She’s a RESCUE!”

[RedHorses]

I’ve only encountered one dog determined to take my horse down. It was a husky or mix, and lived on a high line at the dead end of a road. There was access to a recreational trail at the end of the road.

I was riding by, well past the access gap in the fence, when the dog saw us. The owner was doing yard work and had let the dog loose, presumably because he was right there with it. That dog spotted the horse, decided he wanted it, and without a sound or warning bolted for the gap in the fence - which was almost the opposite direction to us. I stopped my horse so that the owner could catch up and get the dog.

Unfortunately the dog viewed the owner as reinforcement, clearly looking at the human and thinking “you take this side, and I’ll go for the other side”. I backed my horse into a bush as the owner stood at least 30’ away calling the dog. The dog started darting in at my horse’s hindquarters from the side, and after a couple of tries my horse started kicking and swinging sideways to get a better angle for his kicks. Fortunately for all of us my horse managed to connect with the dog, which went yelping off to hide behind the owner’s legs.

It was only later, back at the barn, that I discovered the dog had connected and made a very small tear through the skin on my horse’s leg.

I ride right at questionable dogs now, and fortunately have never encountered one that was determined to take the horse down. But I never assume any random dog I encounter is safe.

[George_T_Mule]

I’ve been following along w/o comment, however:
I fully agree; a good part of the problem with any out of control dog, any “animal”, for that matter, be it a PitBull, a vicious Chihuahua, or a spoiled child, is the owner. But I’m just not too sure what you’re gonna do about that part of the equation.
However, we can declare the PitBull breeds (and the Vicious Chihuahuas too as far as that goes :-)) to be “Dangerous Animals”, require that they be “chipped” for identification, require a permit to own/breed them, and thru that provide at least some level of accountability for the owners of said animals.
How much would this help? I can’t say, but it would certainly be worth running the experiment.
(edit to add) And as much as I hate the idea of suggesting that we trust our Government to get involved in most anything, I would support requiring a permit for anyone to own any animal, from a Horse on down to a GoldFish. Some people just aren’t mentally or financially stable enough, or lack the empathy, or are simply too stupid/vicious on their own right to be entrusted with the care of another being. And “Yes”, I would expand that to include human children. “Sorry 'bout that.”

[Kyrabee]

Thankfully I haven’t come across an aggressive dog but loose ones . My mare is a trail newbie. Somehow in our younger years, she just didn’t get much trail experience.

I have a barn mate whose horse is the perfect baby sitter and we did several rides last summer.
Some guy came up the trail with a loose GSP…doing what GSP’s do and working every bush and sage brush. Kyra wasn’t super freaked by the dog but wanted to keep her eyes on him. Barnmate warned him that there was no guarantee the horses wouldn’t kick. Well, in keeping her eyes on the dog, she did a 45 degree pivot and had to step back to catch her balance on the uneven ground. She nearly ended up in the dog owner’s lap .
I just hate loose dogs. When I had dogs (two dear little beagles on their leashes) they were attacked twice by loose BIG dogs. So many people should not have dogs…period.

Susan

[Djones]

In all my years of riding I’ve only encountered one scary dog situation. I knew the owner and rode to her place, not knowing she had a new dog. She was working outside when I rode up to her workshop that sat at the edge of a corn field. He (the dog) took offense at my horse and it was very concerning: huge, intent, threatening bull dog mix face to face with my very kind horse. She didnt dare turn her back and go get a leash, she couldn’t move him with just his collar, and i dared not move. It was scary, and i don’t scare easily. what finally worked was for her to open her car door and lure him into thinking he was going for a trip. He hopped right in. We both exhaled. He was serious, and I feared he would attack his butt or grab his nose and I would get dumped on the gravel and Archie would get loose. She likely had a pistol in her car but then what. It was really scary.